Marcelo Flores

[BCM]

On 3/3/2019 at 6:45 AM, dyslexic nam said:

I don't think people are blindly commenting because he is in the Arsenal structure.  As indicated by the thread title, some soccer people view this kid as a special sort of talent (I assume "prodigy" isn't just tagged onto any kid).  Thus the hope that he gets pulled into the Canadian youth system.

@Grizzly Arsenal did not develop him, only getting him this year from my team - Ipswich Town. But Arsenal paid several hundred thousand pounds for the kid; that should tell you something about his potential.

[Corazon]

On 3/3/2019 at 5:48 AM, EuropeanScout said:

Marcelo was called into Mexico U17 according to the father on his Facebook. Youngest daughter was called into England camp which would suggest they have a UK passport from the mother 

It appears to be true as his father Ruben has congratulated him on his first appearance for Mexico with the u17s.  Disappointing considering articles from the past few years have stated his desire to play for the Canadian program. 

For those on here suggesting that playing for an Arsenal youth team doesn't necessarily make you a better player than our homegrown academy products.  Well, apparently it is good enough for Mexico (one of the best men's youth programs in the world).  And to those suggesting that its not a big deal that we didn't invite him to camp as long as he receives a call up for the official tournament.  Well, if that was also the case then we likely lost another player to the Mexican youth programs for the next several years.

The only thing we can hope for is that he was invited to this camp and declined but it seems unlikely given the previous statements about representing Canada.  We can hope he makes the switch for our U20 or men's side in the coming years ahead.

 

Does anyone know about Rafael Pinzon.  It seems odd that he is based in Mexico and not invited to the training camp in Mexico, particularly based on his success for Canada with the U15s.

[jpg75]

10 hours ago, Corazon said:

And to those suggesting that its not a big deal that we didn't invite him to camp as long as he receives a call up for the official tournament.  Well, if that was also the case then we likely lost another player to the Mexican youth programs for the next several years.

I assume you are responding to my post. I did NOT suggest it was no big deal that we did not invite him. In fact my post is a response to those assuming that we did not invite him or that he had rejected us when at the time it was completely unknown what the situation was. If he has indeed accepted a call up to Mexico then it's terrible news.

[Corazon]

7 hours ago, jpg75 said:

I assume you are responding to my post. I did NOT suggest it was no big deal that we did not invite him. In fact my post is a response to those assuming that we did not invite him or that he had rejected us when at the time it was completely unknown what the situation was. If he has indeed accepted a call up to Mexico then it's terrible news.

It was posted more just in general and in frustration with the situation.  

[Gordon]

Old news apparently

Edited March 16, 2019 by Gordon
Old tweet rehashed

[Jmhutchinson]

On 3/4/2019 at 12:19 PM, BCM1555362349 said:

@Grizzly Arsenal did not develop him, only getting him this year from my team - Ipswich Town. But Arsenal paid several hundred thousand pounds for the kid; that should tell you something about his potential.

Sorry but that doesnt say anything.

Hundreds of examples of Prem clubs paying fees to poach kids from lower league sides who ultimately amount to nothing

If they paid a fee, this might fall outside of Premier League rules.

[Jmhutchinson]

On 3/4/2019 at 8:24 PM, Corazon said:

It appears to be true as his father Ruben has congratulated him on his first appearance for Mexico with the u17s.  Disappointing considering articles from the past few years have stated his desire to play for the Canadian program. 

For those on here suggesting that playing for an Arsenal youth team doesn't necessarily make you a better player than our homegrown academy products.  Well, apparently it is good enough for Mexico (one of the best men's youth programs in the world).  And to those suggesting that its not a big deal that we didn't invite him to camp as long as he receives a call up for the official tournament.  Well, if that was also the case then we likely lost another player to the Mexican youth programs for the next several years.

The only thing we can hope for is that he was invited to this camp and declined but it seems unlikely given the previous statements about representing Canada.  We can hope he makes the switch for our U20 or men's side in the coming years ahead.

 

Does anyone know about Rafael Pinzon.  It seems odd that he is based in Mexico and not invited to the training camp in Mexico, particularly based on his success for Canada with the U15s.

Let him play in the Mexican youth NT, if he doesnt make it, least he has had some serious tutelage  

Edited March 19, 2019 by Jmhutchinson

[BCM]

3 hours ago, Jmhutchinson said:

Sorry but that doesnt say anything.

Hundreds of examples of Prem clubs paying fees to poach kids from lower league sides who ultimately amount to nothing

If they paid a fee, this might fall outside of Premier League rules.

It does say something -- it says he has potential, that a top team is willing to pay for. Of course it doesn't say he's going to realize that potential...

So which is it, is a fee outside of Premier League rules or do hundreds pay - bit inconsistent there, aren't you?

Fees are definitely paid - we lost the fantastically names Charlie Brown for £600,000 a year ago and Ben Knight for £1,000,000 just weeks before Flores departed. I quote from the twtd.co.uk story

" The Blues also face losing schoolboy Marcelo Flores to Arsenal with talks between the clubs regarding compensation having been ongoing for some months but with the Canadian youngster, whose father Ruben has been coaching at the academy, ultimately appearing certain to move to the Gunners."

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/34421/evans-slams-academy-compensation-system

[dyslexic nam]

13 hours ago, Jmhutchinson said:

Let him play in the Mexican youth NT, if he doesnt make it, least he has had should serious tutelage  

So you (the guy who started the thread looking for Canadian dual nationals to play for other national teams) think we should ignore promising players in our pool while they build stronger ties to other footy nations via their youth programs.

Lol.  I think you are on the wrong site.

[Macksam]

22 hours ago, Jmhutchinson said:

Let him play in the Mexican youth NT, if he doesnt make it, least he has had should serious tutelage  

 

[jordan]

On 3/4/2019 at 3:24 PM, Corazon said:

 

Does anyone know about Rafael Pinzon.  It seems odd that he is based in Mexico and not invited to the training camp in Mexico, particularly based on his success for Canada with the U15s.

Pinzon has moved on the FC Dallas http://fcdl.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=7422056&player=691625279 

[Jmhutchinson]

On 3/18/2019 at 2:38 PM, dyslexic nam said:

So you (the guy who started the thread looking for Canadian dual nationals to play for other national teams) think we should ignore promising players in our pool while they build stronger ties to other footy nations via their youth programs.

Lol.  I think you are on the wrong site.

Its working well for Canada with kids parked all over Europe benefiting from other nations youth programs (IE Tomori), so why not this guy?

Mexico have one of the best youth programs. The father and/or young Marcelo clearly wants the best. If it makes it with Mexico, good for him, but consider how vast the Mexican player pool is, and those born in the US with Mexican ties

If not, then thats a potential upside for Canada

* or even England, will qualify after another 3 years, could have another Declan Rice scenario 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Jmhutchinson

[Jmhutchinson]

On 3/18/2019 at 4:04 AM, BCM1555362349 said:

It does say something -- it says he has potential, that a top team is willing to pay for. Of course it doesn't say he's going to realize that potential...

So which is it, is a fee outside of Premier League rules or do hundreds pay - bit inconsistent there, aren't you?

Fees are definitely paid - we lost the fantastically names Charlie Brown for £600,000 a year ago and Ben Knight for £1,000,000 just weeks before Flores departed. I quote from the twtd.co.uk story

" The Blues also face losing schoolboy Marcelo Flores to Arsenal with talks between the clubs regarding compensation having been ongoing for some months but with the Canadian youngster, whose father Ruben has been coaching at the academy, ultimately appearing certain to move to the Gunners."

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/34421/evans-slams-academy-compensation-system

sorry,

*paid a fee - in relation to the tapping up cases of 2017 with Liverpool and the ongoing Chelsea case. 

What i was getting at was as long as it was all above board. But still my point was that of yes paying a fee could indicate some potential Arsenal see, but realising potential is another case as you corrected me

This is right, many schoolboys do have a fee paid, but the overwhelming majority dont make it past academy level

[spitfire]

Fees paid for any player under 18 in England and Walesbetween academy clubs is governed by the eppp (elite player performance pathway) the amount of compensation is a flat fixed fee determined by tier of academy player is coming from and the length of time they were at that club. So Marcelo going from Ipswich town(cat 2) to Arsenal(cat 1 1) is a fixed fee plus the time served(I think he was at itfc for 2.5 years 

here is a link to the wiki explanation of eppp or go to the game website and search eppp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Player_Performance_Plan

so really the fee Arsenal for him would have been a fixed fee of £ 62500((25000/year over 12)There should be no other fee outside of that. It’s the whole point of the eppp to stop high priced buys. At least in the UK..

. I think I heard through the grape vine that there was an argument as to when he started playing at what age and for how long for Ipswich town hence the delay.

**edit sorry to add the Ipswich town website is a fan based one  if the fee is set to rise ito £1000000 or £600000 it would be because of add ons for potential first team appearances  not sure were the £600000 came from for Charlie Brown... he left at 16.

3x3000(9-11) +5x25000=125000(12-16)= £134000 total fee  

they are also entitled to training compensation should the player be sold on  from Chelsea  

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/C2FB1444624F4367AA477A72D94B50BF.ashx

Go to section 277-282 

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by spitfire

[BCM]

7 hours ago, spitfire said:

Fees paid for any player under 18 in England and Walesbetween academy clubs is governed by the eppp (elite player performance pathway) the amount of compensation is a flat fixed fee determined by tier of academy player is coming from and the length of time they were at that club. So Marcelo going from Ipswich town(cat 2) to Arsenal(cat 1 1) is a fixed fee plus the time served(I think he was at itfc for 2.5 years 

here is a link to the wiki explanation of eppp or go to the game website and search eppp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Player_Performance_Plan

so really the fee Arsenal for him would have been a fixed fee of £ 62500((25000/year over 12)There should be no other fee outside of that. It’s the whole point of the eppp to stop high priced buys. At least in the UK..

. I think I heard through the grape vine that there was an argument as to when he started playing at what age and for how long for Ipswich town hence the delay.

**edit sorry to add the Ipswich town website is a fan based one  if the fee is set to rise ito £1000000 or £600000 it would be because of add ons for potential first team appearances  not sure were the £600000 came from for Charlie Brown... he left at 16.

3x3000(9-11) +5x25000=125000(12-16)= £134000 total fee  

they are also entitled to training compensation should the player be sold on  from Chelsea  

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/C2FB1444624F4367AA477A72D94B50BF.ashx

Go to section 277-282 

 

 

 

Hmmm. I trust you, but even transfer market says GBP734,000 for Ben Knight, who's 16. I can't imagine they always count the add ons.

To also be clear, the guy who runs twtd is a legit journalists with access to players, so it's not the typical "fan" site. There are often interviews with player and management posted.

[BCM]

23 hours ago, spitfire said:

Fees paid for any player under 18 in England and Walesbetween academy clubs is governed by the eppp (elite player performance pathway) the amount of compensation is a flat fixed fee determined by tier of academy player is coming from and the length of time they were at that club. So Marcelo going from Ipswich town(cat 2) to Arsenal(cat 1 1) is a fixed fee plus the time served(I think he was at itfc for 2.5 years 

here is a link to the wiki explanation of eppp or go to the game website and search eppp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Player_Performance_Plan

so really the fee Arsenal for him would have been a fixed fee of £ 62500((25000/year over 12)There should be no other fee outside of that. It’s the whole point of the eppp to stop high priced buys. At least in the UK..

. I think I heard through the grape vine that there was an argument as to when he started playing at what age and for how long for Ipswich town hence the delay.

**edit sorry to add the Ipswich town website is a fan based one  if the fee is set to rise ito £1000000 or £600000 it would be because of add ons for potential first team appearances  not sure were the £600000 came from for Charlie Brown... he left at 16.

3x3000(9-11) +5x25000=125000(12-16)= £134000 total fee  

they are also entitled to training compensation should the player be sold on  from Chelsea  

http://www.thefa.com/~/media/C2FB1444624F4367AA477A72D94B50BF.ashx

Go to section 277-282 

 

 

 

Funnily, this popped up today. ITFC and Arsenal agreed compensation.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/35706/flores-compensation-agreed-with-arsenal

 

[Blackjack15]

Here's the most recent and updated article on his international future - Translated version

https://us.as.com/us/2019/03/20/futbol/1553120776_256601.html (Español) 

Flores, the Pearl of Arsenal that 3 countries are fighting for 

"With just 15 years, the player of Arsenal, has been called with the Mexican national team under 16, but Canada and England also bid to steal the youth."

"The young midfielder can boast that at his young age, three countries fight over his services.

Marcelo was born on October 1, 2003 in Canada, but he is from a Mexican father and mother of English descent, since he was a child they moved to England, so he has three nationalities.

England, Canada and Mexico, bid to become the young player, but Mexico has won at the moment the game to the other two countries to summon it to the next concentration of the U-16 team in the CAR.

His father, Rubén Flores played in Mexico for teams like Cruz Azul and Atlante, while his mother played women's soccer in Canada, Marcelo has two sisters, who are also players, Silvana, 17 years old and who was already runner-up in the world with the sub -17 from Mexico.

Tatiana is her other sister, she is 13 years old and currently represents England, but her father does not rule out the possibility of her playing for Mexico. Like Marcelo, his two sisters own the three nationalities.

Arsenal to the Mexican
Just a week ago, the arrival of Marcelo Flores to Arsenal became official, after spending several months training with the team, the young Mexican arrived from the Ipswich Town Academy.

"Ipswich Town made a camp and one of the coaches invited him when he was 9 or 10 years old. When we arrived here we went to visit the team and they said yes and started training at the academy for two years, it went very well and this year Arsenal saw it and bought it at Ipswich Town, "said his father, Rubén Flores.

But before the arrival of Marcelo, his sisters were already playing in the women's categories, Silvana in the sub-17 and Tatiana with the sub-14 of the gunner box."

Below is a photo from his presentation ⬇️

Note: Although being a year younger, as a 2003 he was eligible to take part in the U17 CONCACAF championship but didn't receive a call up from neither Mexico or Canada. Quite strange

At just 15, His next official tourney will be the 2021  Since that's the right cycle for him (2004' born on and after) wished he played up but hasn't ever played up. Good for his development to wait 2 more years 

This call up for Mexico to invitational tournament may little or mean nothing at all

England's participation at the U17 Euro championship is happening simultaneously in May, and the next one is in 2020.

This is just the beginning of his tracking process, he needs to burn stages, once he starts playing U18 Premier League then it's serious. Luckily for him in terms of pressure he doesn't have to decide what NT he wants to represent fully just yet 

[Blackjack15]

For those wondering how he did recently: 

 

[Bertuzzi44]

England, Mexico or Canada? And he's already played for Mexico, and currently lives in England?

File this one under "long shot"

[Sigma78]

October 4 - Arsenal U16 5 Leyton Orient U16 0

"Khayon Edwards scored four of the five goals, whilst Marcelo Flores assisted all five. Omari Hutchinson scored the fifth goal."

https://onefootball.com/en/news/marcelo-flores-and-khayon-edwards-star-in-5-0-win-for-arsenal-u16s-against-leyton-orient-en-27501052?variable=20191007

 

[Jith12]

Marcelo Flores trained with the Arsenal first team for the first time today. He's also expected to be a regular with Arsenal U18 in the U18 Premier League this season.

Flores is currently committed to Mexico, but has not yet played in any competitive youth international matches for them, so he could theoretically still play for Canada without having to file a one time switch. He's very highly rated by Arsenal, so it could be a huge get for us if we can convince him to switch.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

14 minutes ago, Jith12 said:

if we can convince him to switch.

Doubt it. At least not now.

His sister Silvana  also used to play for Arsenal but recently moved to Chelsea. She went to Canadian U15/U17 camps but has decided to play for Mexico too https://www.canadasoccer.com/profile/?id=7977

The whole family seems to be committed to Mexico.

[jordan]

17 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

The whole family seems to be committed to Mexico.

 

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Doubt it. At least not now.

His sister Silvana  also used to play for Arsenal but recently moved to Chelsea. She went to Canadian U15/U17 camps but has decided to play for Mexico too https://www.canadasoccer.com/profile/?id=7977

The whole family seems to be committed to Mexico.

Was that a case of her not getting into the Canada side I wonder? On the women's side Canada would be the harder team to get into I imagine. If she was willing to choose the national team she'd have more of a future in, perhaps her brother is the same? Just another spin on it...

He hasn't played a competitive youth game for Mexico (apparently), so maybe he isn't completely sold on them (or vice versa). Mexico is obviously a tough team to get into. American born Jonathan Gonzalez, who is very highly rated and has made 74 appearances for Monterrey, has only won 3 caps for Mexico after switching over in 2018. So yeah, not saying Gonzalez regrets his choice, but he isn't exactly racking up the caps and with the lesser option (the USA) he would probably be in the double digits by now. 

England I would argue is an even more difficult senior team to get into than Mexico, but being England based he may be weighing up his options for their youth teams. It is really hard to know exactly how good this young man is without him playing any first team football. So many players train with first teams like Arsenal and amount to nothing.

He could be a big prospect for Mexico, he could be setting himself up for England, or he could be on the radar of neither, which is obviously what we would be hoping for. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Obinna

[Corazon]

His father was a great coach for numerous soccer clubs here in the GTA and with the Ontario Provincial program.  His playing resume controversy is irrelevant to his qualities of a coach.  His son Marcelo used to go out to practices and train with the teams when he was little.  Before moving abroad Marcelo was involved in his father's programs and other soccer programs here in this country.  His mother is also from Canada.  If he is a prodigy and both youth programs of England and Mexico are interested, then there is good chance we might miss out.  At the senior level, Canada probably has a good shot at him and unlike Tomori, I'm sure he feels quite Canadian growing up in and around Ontario soccer.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Corazon