Marcelo Flores

[Dominic94]

I’m pretty sure wheeler said Arsenal was impressed by the plan that Herdman has for Flores.

[Stryker911]

5 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

I’m pretty sure wheeler said Arsenal was impressed by the plan that Herdman has for Flores.

"Arsenal were actually blown away with the program that Herdman presented" is the actual quote.

[dyslexic nam]

5 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

"Arsenal were actually blown away with the program that Herdman presented" is the actual quote.

Yeah, but was this according to Herdman? 

[costarg]

2 hours ago, Stryker911 said:

"Arsenal were actually blown away with the program that Herdman presented" is the actual quote.

Meaning....

Herdman : "don't worry Arsenal, we never ever actually play any games.  So your guy will never have to travel to Canada or risk getting injured. 

Arsenal : "you have our vote!" 

Edited January 8, 2021 by costarg

[CanadaFan123]

2 hours ago, Stryker911 said:

"Arsenal were actually blown away with the program that Herdman presented" is the actual quote.

I want to be excited but Wheeler shot all his credibility with the Yankov mess.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Stryker911 said:

"Arsenal were actually blown away with the program that Herdman presented" is the actual quote.

How far Arsenal has fallen, in awe of a guy who's greatest claim is to have been a civil servant in New Zealand soccer.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Dominic94]

52 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I want to be excited but Wheeler shot all his credibility with the Yankov mess.

To be fair Wheeler sharing it is probably one of the reasons it fell through. Guy did a 180, do we really want him ?

[jordan]

He didn't do a 180. He did exactly what he said would happen. 

[Obinna]

I would have no problem welcoming Yankov in our program. He had an opportunity to play senior matches for Bulgaria without compromising his eligibility for us, so what's the problem? It's not like he told us to get stuffed. If he wakes up tomorrow and wants to join us then fantastic. If not I am not losing sleep. He's another young midfielder who has good potential. 

Bulgaria lost a player to injury on the eve of a big game. Yankov was finally coming into his own at Ludogorets - starting for the biggest club in Bulgaria. He was already in their youth program. That is obviously hard to pass up, even if you are in the middle of filing your switch. And he supposedly responded to the CSA and said (to paraphrase) "I live and play in Bulgaria and this chance came, I need to take it", he never said bye bye Canada forever, did he?

This makes me think of Akinola. We expect him to play for us because he lives here and just had his breakthrough at our biggest club. That was basically part of Wheeler's argument for Ayo to Canada. He is joining our program on the condition he won't be tied to us.

Yankov finds himself in a rather similar predicament.

The pressure Ayo would feel to play for Canada (using 'play' loosely here) would not be dissimilar to what Yankov must have felt to play for Bulgaria. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Obinna

[Dominic94]

1 hour ago, jordan said:

He didn't do a 180. He did exactly what he said would happen. 

Fair enough, they did call him first technically.

[SpursFlu]

I'm impressed with the sarcasm and zingers going around but im a little surprised at the hatred towards Herdman. Im kinda on the fence with him and I think Wheeler was a little over the top. But I understand the point and why we should be excited. I think they were "blown away" within the context of us being Canada. Like if you eat a churro from 711 and its actually not bad. Your blown away cuz you assume its been spinning on that wheel under a lamp for 2 weeks. Maybe a better analogy considering he's choosen between Mexico and Canada is just say you go to Tim Hortons and your drunk and you for some reason order the poutine, obviously its gonna be terrible but...

Edited January 8, 2021 by SpursFlu

[costarg]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

I'm impressed with the sarcasm and zingers going around but im a little surprised at the hatred towards Herdman. Im kinda on the fence with him and I think Wheeler was a little over the top. But I understand the point and why we should be excited. I think they were "blown away" within the context of us being Canada. Like if you eat a churro from 711 and its actually not bad. Your blown away cuz you assume its been spinning on that wheel under a lamp for 2 weeks. Maybe a better analogy considering he's choosen between Mexico and Canada is just say you go to Tim Hortons and your drunk and you for some reason order the poutine, obviously its gonna be terrible but...

On my end, I meant no disrespect towards Herdman, I'm a fan thus far. 

I mean it's not up to him confirm and pay for the games, that's all on CSA.  

[RS]

16 hours ago, VinceA said:

Scrimmages aren't actual games. No Caps gained for our guys and no real sense of actual game experience.

Under current conditions, there's very little difference between a scrimmage and a friendly.

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, RS said:

Under current conditions, there's very little difference between a scrimmage and a friendly.

I like to see our plays pad their stats with friendly matches over scrimmages, all things being equal, but in this case it works in our favor.

We get to see a few guys in game situations without needed them to file any paperwork.

[One American]

There are a lot of dual nats dipping toes in water in this camp. To see them against a different opponent, the scrimmages make sense. Because those guys might not come if they had to file a one-time switch to play. 

It sounds more like Arsenal were impressed by Herdman's presentation than by the Canadian program. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by One American

[One American]

Also, are they holding camp at IMG in Florida? That probably is pretty impressive. 

[Dominic94]

3 hours ago, One American said:

There are a lot of dual nats dipping toes in water in this camp. To see them against a different opponent, the scrimmages make sense. Because those guys might not come if they had to file a one-time switch to play. 

It sounds more like Arsenal were impressed by Herdman's presentation than by the Canadian program. 

I would like to know who is saying that, like is it coming from Arsenal ?

if it is it’s good praise. You would think Arsenal would maybe look closer in Canada if he pans out as he was mostly trained here.

[Floortom]

1 minute ago, Dominic94 said:

I would like to know who is saying that, like is it coming from Arsenal ?

 

It apparently came from the academy manager Mertesacker

i would take this with multiple grains of salt seeing as this is obviously Herdman’s version of events 

[Dominic94]

3 minutes ago, Floortom said:

It apparently came from the academy manager Mertesacker

i would take this with multiple grains of salt seeing as this is obviously Herdman’s version of events 

Anyone here know people at Arsenal ehehe.

I agree there too, is it herdmans version ?

[red card]

Herdman is the first corporate exec quaility manager for Canada. He's done many company speaking engagements including for the one I work for about 5 years ago. He makes a very good impression as I still have non-soccer types at work who can still fondly recall seeing Herdman speak. So no surprise he did well presenting to Arsenal.

Herdman is also the first to fully incorporate psychology into the prep of the men's team. Given his forward thinking, I hope he is also incorporating full analytics assessment of the players.

Some on this forum have tended to poo poo these aspects of Herdman. But this is football's future.

Prime example is F.C. Midtjylland where James plays. The club knows how much its players have run and what they have done in the gym and what they have eaten and where they shoot from and how well they have slept. It is attempting to know even the most intimate parts of their minds: how they think, how they feel, how they learn.

However, the quality and collection of data is still poor. Most of it is event data, but most of football happens without the ball. Artificial intelligence will help to improve that considerable blind spot.

The team psychologist has individual player sessions that get deeply, intensely personal. He encourages the players who meet in his office every few weeks to share their innermost thoughts with him, and with their teammates. They talk not only about their professional worries, but their domestic ones. Sometimes, there are tears.

The club is currently running one study to identify which traits are shared by players who have thrived there in the past. At the same time, they are working with educational consultants to work out how players absorb information, how they think, how they learn. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/30/sports/soccer/soccer-future-midtjylland.html?searchResultPosition=1

 

[An Observer]

1 hour ago, red card said:

Herdman is the first corporate exec quaility manager for Canada. He's done many company speaking engagements including for the one I work for about 5 years ago. He makes a very good impression as I still have non-soccer types at work who can still fondly recall seeing Herdman speak. So no surprise he did well presenting to Arsenal.

Herdman is also the first to fully incorporate psychology into the prep of the men's team. Given his forward thinking, I hope he is also incorporating full analytics assessment of the players.

Some on this forum have tended to poo poo these aspects of Herdman. But this is football's future.

Prime example is F.C. Midtjylland where James plays. The club knows how much its players have run and what they have done in the gym and what they have eaten and where they shoot from and how well they have slept. It is attempting to know even the most intimate parts of their minds: how they think, how they feel, how they learn.

However, the quality and collection of data is still poor. Most of it is event data, but most of football happens without the ball. Artificial intelligence will help to improve that considerable blind spot.

The team psychologist has individual player sessions that get deeply, intensely personal. He encourages the players who meet in his office every few weeks to share their innermost thoughts with him, and with their teammates. They talk not only about their professional worries, but their domestic ones. Sometimes, there are tears.

The club is currently running one study to identify which traits are shared by players who have thrived there in the past. At the same time, they are working with educational consultants to work out how players absorb information, how they think, how they learn. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/30/sports/soccer/soccer-future-midtjylland.html?searchResultPosition=1

 

I completely agree this is the future and from what I have seen from Herdman is that he is really forward looking, incorporates psychology, is a great recruiter and has built an excellent team culture.  All of these are extremely important elements for a national team manager.  And as for results, we comprehensively played the US off the park and got our first win against them on our home pitch in years.  This was largely down to his tactics in that match where he had Davies and David up front and a box in midfield behind them. No other Canadian manager has ever done that in a competitive match against a higher ranked team. 

Yes, on the return leg we got whipped as he listened to the players and went at the US and our defensive frailties were exposed.  But perhaps this was a learning experience for the young players that next time in a big match they won’t be so over confident and play a more counter attacking style away from home against a better opponent which we are well suited for.

I sometimes think that the old school types on this board dismiss him as he is more modern in his thinking and they don’t like his marketing speel, plus he came from the women’s game where I think there is a little latent sexism for in our views here. I honestly worry more that he will leave before 2026 for bigger and better things and with our budget we will end up with some clunker or has been as we have always before.  We will then be sitting here whinnying about our under performance and the state of the program and pining for Herdman when he is off managing a successful club in a top league or a better national team program. 

[dyslexic nam]

I don’t have a grudge against Herdman, and while I will crack the occasional joke about about him I am not a hater.  
 

Having said that, I think it is disingenuous to portray criticism of him as solely caused by unjustified or outdated thinking.  Despite regularly hearing about his modern psychological approach, we utterly collapsed in the GC game against Haiti - one of the biggest games of his tenure. And despite supposedly meticulous preparation, we looked utterly unprepared away to the US.  And this all happened with the most talented squad we have had in a long time - and possibly forever.  Yes, these are just single isolated games, but they happen in a context where single isolated games are the difference between success and failure.  And we have failed in multiple large tests.  

Yes, we have rolled over the minnows as we should. But in some of the games that really mattered, we fell short.  It isn’t ridiculous (or sexist) to question Herdman’s claims or his outcomes.  We will have a limited number of key games to determine if we make it to Qatar and if we fail it will be four more years in the wilderness.  There is far too much at stake to just uncritically buy into the PR.  

[SoccMan]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I don’t have a grudge against Herdman, and while I will crack the occasional joke about about him I am not a hater.  
 

Having said that, I think it is disingenuous to portray criticism of him as solely caused by unjustified or outdated thinking.  Despite regularly hearing about his modern psychological approach, we utterly collapsed in the GC game against Haiti - one of the biggest games of his tenure. And despite supposedly meticulous preparation, we looked utterly unprepared away to the US.  And this all happened with the most talented squad we have had in a long time - and possibly forever.  Yes, these are just single isolated games, but they happen in a context where single isolated games are the difference between success and failure.  And we have failed in multiple large tests.  

Yes, we have rolled over the minnows as we should. But in some of the games that really mattered, we fell short.  It isn’t ridiculous (or sexist) to question Herdman’s claims or his outcomes.  We will have a limited number of key games to determine if we make it to Qatar and if we fail it will be four more years in the wilderness.  There is far too much at stake to just uncritically buy into the PR.  

Did you have to go do that just when I thought we should be ok now you got me thinking lol, but seriously some valid points there .

[Shway]

I think Herdman is.....wait a second, this is the Flores thread. 

For lack of a better analogy....I’m happy that he’s given us his number, and he’s open to the idea of us dating. I’ll be excited when we get him to bed and pregnant. That way we have him forever. 

[VinceA]