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Cyle Larin

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9 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

What exactly do you mean by Portugal losing it's place to France? Ligue 1 has been a clearly stronger league than Portugal for pretty much ever.

Yes, Mexico is more balanced but the more intense matches in UCL at Benfica will compensate for that. In Mexico there is no guarantee of Libertadores due to the parity in the league.

 

Ligue 1 stronger than Portugal is a pretty recent thing man. 

I agree the big 3 and even Braga offer Europe play (mostly stronger) but I think he'd get strong matches more often via Mexico. Either is fine with me as I think both could give him the enviroment he needs to grow.

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Mexico might be my preferred destination for Canadians, until they outgrow it and transfer to a top league. The experience would help us immensely.

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26 minutes ago, matty said:

Ligue 1 stronger than Portugal is a pretty recent thing man. 

Read up on your European history man. My grandmother used to go watch those great Stade Reims teams visit FC Rouen back in the 50's. France has always been stronger than Portugal in football.

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1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

Read up on your European history man. My grandmother used to go watch those great Stade Reims teams visit FC Rouen back in the 50's. France has always been stronger than Portugal in football.

You mean like how Portuguese teams have won a combined 7 European titles to Frech clubs' 2 (when you remove the Intertoto Cup)?

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29 minutes ago, matty said:

You mean like how Portuguese teams have won a combined 7 European titles to Frech clubs' 2 (when you remove the Intertoto Cup)?

Quite the selective use of statistics. You know you're only measuring the relative strength of the top club in each country with that stat, right? How about this: since Belenenses won in 1945-46 only 3 clubs have won the Portuguese league more than once (Porto, Benfica and Sporting). Boavista won in 2000.

In that same time frame France has crowned 14 different champions. 8 teams have won atleast 5 times. I'm sure the UEFA co-effecient starting in the era of multiple reps. in European competition would reflect that.

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They are pretty even leagues.  On average, Portugal's top 3 are maybe a little better, while Ligue 1's overall depth is probably a little better.  Any given year it can fluctuate some, but I wouldn't say one is definitively better than the other.   Just depends on which metrics you choose to go by.

Which is pretty remarkable, considering the overall financial disparity between them  Of course you will get that when one country has over 60 million people, and the other just over 10. (less than the province of Ontario)

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4 hours ago, jpg75 said:

What exactly do you mean by Portugal losing it's place to France? Ligue 1 has been a clearly stronger league than Portugal for pretty much ever.

Yes, Mexico is more balanced but the more intense matches in UCL at Benfica will compensate for that. In Mexico there is no guarantee of Libertadores due to the parity in the league.

 

I think he means Ligue 1's coefficent will overtake Portugal's league coefficent (which has already happened this year)

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Way more depth in France than Portugal. If I had to mix both leagues and rate the clubs based on recent history, it would go something like this:

1. PSG 

-----------------------------

2. Monaco

3. Benfica

4. Porto

-----------------------------

5. Lyon

6. Sporting CP

7. Marseille

----------------------------
8. Nice

9. Sporting Braga

10. Lille

11. Rennes

12. Bordeaux

---------------------------

13. Nantes

14. Vitoria

15. Montpellier

16. Saint-Etienne 

17. Maritimo 

18. Pacos

.................. 

Obviously I am not an expert on either league and i'm sure not everyone would agree on the exact order and it's only my subjective opinion, BUT I don't think anyone would strongly disagree with that list. I think it's pretty accurate table if you look at how these clubs have performed both domestically and in Europe.

I don't think anyone would argue that PSG has been the strongest over the past several seasons. Monaco, Benfica and Porto could all swap positions, but I think we'd all agree that there is a separation from the next group (not a big one) of Lyon, Marseille and Sporting CP. 

After this is where you get the separation. Sporting Braga, Lille, Nice, Rennes, Bordeaux. I think it's fair to rank all of these teams as more or less equal. None of them belong with Lyon, Marseille or Sporting and we'd all agree on that. So 4 teams from France to Portugal's one.

The rest I am less sure about but again, I wouldn't compare any of them to Braga or Rennes. The only one that I would be tempted by is Saint Etienne. 

 

Edited by Obinna

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35 minutes ago, matty said:

It's not about now but historically. I agree ligue 1 has passed Portugal but the case isn't there for much of history.

France has always always always had a better league than Portugal. There have been periods where the top 2 or 3 teams in Portugal have been better than the top 2 or 3 teams in France but as a league from top to bottom France has always been superior to Portugal. I live next to the Portugese part of Montreal and doubt I could even find a Portugese guy who would agree with what you are saying. That is not to say that the lower teams in Portugal or Belgium are poor but there is far from the parity and strength in the lower table that there is in the French teams.

Co-efficients and European tournament success are dependent on a few top clubs in each league and are very susceptible to short term success, luck and fluctuations. Portugal's clubs had a couple of good years which pushed them too high in the rankings just like Belgians clubs are having now. One can occasionally see long term trends like Italy falling to 4th among the big 4 but most often the changes are short term aberrations.

Mexico has a good level of parity and would probably be around 6th to 10th best league in Europe. Playing in Mexico would be a step up from MLS and from a national team perspective might be good for Larin getting used to CONCACAF style but Europe will give him a lot more exposure and do more for his career if he can make it there. Plus Mexico continues to teeter on the edge of being a failed state with certain regions of the country being quite dangerous. Remember the evacuation of Santos Laguna's stadium due to a shootout outside the stadium?

It is hard to predict what is better for Larin. In an ideal world he would go to a top league, get playing time and score but it is hard to know if he is ready for that or not. Portugal would seem to be a good choice because he would get some play against top teams and depending who he signs with European play but still have some weaker competition to hone his craft and pad his stats with. Belgium despite the success of Genk and Anderlecht this year is not as strong as the Portugese League overall nor even as strong as the Dutch league so I would be less enthusiastic about that, I don't think it would be much of a step up from MLS. France would be a good choice for getting solid play week in and week out without being a step so high that he might not be able to handle it. 

Edited by Grizzly

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20 minutes ago, Futballer said:

English premier League Sources on Kyle larin to everton

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/3188197/everton-mls-cyle-larin-romelu-lukaku/ 

 

I guess it is a matter of whether or not to go to a mid-level league before getting on the big stage, but a big part of me thinks you go for the biggest stage available and do everything you humanly can to show you deserve to be there.  Plus I have a soft spot for Everton ever since Radz played there.  A move to a top-top club probably wouldn't be ideal at this point since competition would limit playing time, but getting real EPL minutes at a club like Everton could be huge for Larin, and in turn for the CMNT.

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Not the end of the world if Latin goes to Everton, doesn't stick immediately and goes on loan for a year either at Championship or Belgium or wherever and see what happens. 

He's done enough at MLS level. Though hard to see Orlando and MLS let him go for less than 5 mil in transfer fee. He's worth more than what's quoted right now.

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10 minutes ago, Yohan said:

Not the end of the world if Latin goes to Everton, doesn't stick immediately and goes on loan for a year either at Championship or Belgium or wherever and see what happens. 

He's done enough at MLS level. Though hard to see Orlando and MLS let him go for less than 5 mil in transfer fee. He's worth more than what's quoted right now.

IMO, if Larin needs to be loaned out from the club he transfers to in order to get playing time, then he shouldn't be transferring to that club in the first place. He needs to go somewhere where he can get minutes. Like @Kent, the Doneil Henry transfer has really made me second guess moves to big clubs.

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16 minutes ago, Kent said:

Man, Doneil Henry has made me really worried/hesitant with what I want for Larin.

Doneil Henry did not do as well in the MLS as Larin is doing. He was brought to West Ham due to his youth, athleticism and potential.

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I'm not sure about the comparison to Henry.  Yes, Henry was consistent for TFC for a couple of years, but that was during their underwhelming era of poor performances, in large part because of their porous defence. 

 

Contrast with Larin, who may still be finding his feet on the Nats, but has been a top striker in MLS for a couple of years now.  There is no reason why he couldn't take the next big step.  Certainly, he would have to work his ass off to be competitive at that level, but that is what it will always take for a player to cultivate the skills necessary to compete in a top league. 

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