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Cyle Larin


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4 minutes ago, matty said:

Ok but would you follow tfc (your main club) regardless of cancon?

What is cancon? If you mean "Canadians" than yes, but I became a fan of the club in the first placr because they were the first Canadian team and (more importantly) signed and played multiple Canadians straight out the gate.

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I always try to watch the CAN CON.  So in order it is MLS (TFC first but priority to MLS with the most cancon), USL online (Can clubs then down the SKC or Rochester etc with lots of can-con), then my super soccer saturday, EPL, Bundaslega champions league etc, whatever is on the sportschannel, trying to catch CAN-CON, Bunrley, red star, besikas etc.  Rarely do I watch MLS without can-con, but I'll watch champions league/uefa cup stuff whenever I can with teams from the big leagues being the priority.  

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Ah yes. Cancon = canadian content.

Yes, I would watch every TFC game I could even if there was zero Canadian content, but I evolved to that point once I became a more hardened fan. It took several years and in the early days I would make less effort to watch them if there was no cancon. Now, my effort to watch is always the same regardless of the cancon. 

Conversely, if they had multiple years where they played little to no Canadians, my support for them would soften, I think. If Vancouver and Montreal played very heavy cancon for multiple years and TFC did the opposite, my support would drift, but regardless I think I will always be a TFC guy first. The damage has already been done :)

In the grand scheme of things though, I must say, I am a country over club person. CanMNT will be my number 1 priority for the foreseeable future.

Edited by Obinna
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15 minutes ago, Obinna said:

What is cancon? If you mean "Canadians" than yes, but I became a fan of the club in the first placr because they were the first Canadian team and (more importantly) signed and played multiple Canadians straight out the gate.

Yea cancon is canadian content on the roster. I'd say a canadian team doesn't equal cancon itself.

17 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I always try to watch the CAN CON.  So in order it is MLS (TFC first but priority to MLS with the most cancon), USL online (Can clubs then down the SKC or Rochester etc with lots of can-con), then my super soccer saturday, EPL, Bundaslega champions league etc, whatever is on the sportschannel, trying to catch CAN-CON, Bunrley, red star, besikas etc.  Rarely do I watch MLS without can-con, but I'll watch champions league/uefa cup stuff whenever I can with teams from the big leagues being the priority.  

Ok but would you follow your main team regardless?

Just to clear up what i mean i follow my main team because.....

A) ...of canadian players

B) ...the team is local

C) ... The team is canadian

D) .... i like soccer and there is nothing else to follow with ease

E) other

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AWWWW, i get it. So...A, then C, then D, HAHAA!!  But no I would not follow TFC if there was no can-con.  Lucky for me this has never been an issue, there is almost always at least someone on the gameday roster.  but if Van is playing and they have guys starting its a channel flipping festival.  If its Van/Impact with no Can starters I will usually pass, check in the second half see if there have been subs used. Or goto the computer and watch any can USL games on.  Or watch Orlando and Larin!!!  Lucky with the time zones sports channels usually have TFC/VAN games back to back, and then my wife yells at me for watching too much!  

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Im a TFC fan but mostly in it for the cancon at first. They always have atleast someone on the bench who will most likely come into the game, I for sure find the regular season a lot less interesting if no Canadians are playing I find myself tuning out, the playoffs are a different story. My favorite games of the season are always the Vcup and I think that's telling.  MLS is coming leaps and bounds though and TFC and Atlanta in particular play some really good stuff. 

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2 hours ago, matty said:

Yea cancon is canadian content on the roster. I'd say a canadian team doesn't equal cancon itself.

Ok but would you follow your main team regardless?

Just to clear up what i mean i follow my main team because.....

A) ...of canadian players

B) ...the team is local

C) ... The team is canadian

D) .... i like soccer and there is nothing else to follow with ease

E) other

All of the above. The Impact are my local Canadian club and I'll always support them based on that. 

Canadian content is a huge bonus that I've always assumed will come along with the maturation of the academy. The fact that the Impact have so much young Canadian talent right now has me quite excited for the upcoming season.

Edited by Chad_Impact
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6 hours ago, Free kick said:

To clarify,  now that i am thinking about it further,  the 5 mill for Edu that i mentioned may have been in Canadian dollars.  By the way, the league use to, and maybe still does, require the clubs to keep this money “in trust” so that its used for player/club development purposes.  TFC used that money to rip out the field turf at BMO field and replace it with natural grass.  That, is the most important legacy of Maurice Edu. 

Getting back to the point,  there is no point going down the path of how the turkish league’s competitiveness stacks up against this and that league in mid sized european countries.  As an FYI,   i referred to the UEFA coefficient for champions league slots to get an idea and it lists it just behind sweden and Belgium.   But that can be argued endlessly, so i wont go there.   But what is certain,  its not France, Spain, Germany, England and Italy,  thats where the best talent plays.  And, three million for a transfer is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things.   These two points you can verify youselves.   There are sites you can go to check player values and tranfer fees.  

 

You should recheck your sources. If you had said Switzerland instead of Sweden - as you have stated repeatedly - you might be taken more seriously. Anyone even remotely aware of world soccer knows the Swedish League, despite the relative strength of its national team - is very very weak. 

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4 hours ago, Kadenge said:

some of us only watch MLS to see Canadians playing.......personally, if I am going to spend 90 mins watching a footie game I want to see the best players on the best teams in the best leagues and that is in Europe.

Europe includes the likes of Albania, Lietchenstein, andorra, iceland, Finland and many many other small countries and smaler economies.   People,  europe is many countries.   And the level of competitions IS NOT THE SAME in every country.    There are clearly five that stand out.   As for the rest, you levels of competiveness and infrastructures that range from what you would see in MLS to what you would see in League one in Ontario.  And there might even be levels comparable to recreational leagues in Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver.  Just dig up on Youtube some matches and highlights from, say,  the Finnish league.  Take a look and see for yourself .  Pay attantion to the kind of stadium infrastruture that you see around the stadium.

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1 hour ago, Gordon said:

You should recheck your sources. If you had said Switzerland instead of Sweden - as you have stated repeatedly - you might be taken more seriously. Anyone even remotely aware of world soccer knows the Swedish League, despite the relative strength of its national team - is very very weak. 

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/

here is my source.  Your right about Sweden,  i was looking at a different one that may have factored in national team performance.  My main point still stands, three million to a Turkish club for our starting fwd on our national team is not very much. I was hoping for much better because of the reasons we follow this kind of news is because this kind of stuff is an objective appraisal of our cnd talent offered by the market.   And to me, i see a drop from the top five leagues (ignoring the relegation zones) and the rest.   

Yes,  we we can argue as nauseum over Belgium, sweden, turkey , portugal, switzerland.   Nobody  knows for sure.  But what we do know, is that the best talent goes where the money and fame is.  And thats usually in those same top five leagues. Its those same leagues where the annual balon d’or winner plays in.  

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12 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Europe includes the likes of Albania, Lietchenstein, andorra, iceland, Finland and many many other small countries and smaler economies.   People,  europe is many countries.   And the level of competitions IS NOT THE SAME in every country.    There are clearly five that stand out.   As for the rest, you levels of competiveness and infrastructures that range from what you would see in MLS to what you would see in League one in Ontario.  And there might even be levels comparable to recreational leagues in Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver.  Just dig up on Youtube some matches and highlights from, say,  the Finnish league.  Take a look and see for yourself .  Pay attantion to the kind of stadium infrastruture that you see around the stadium.

This reads as if you are saying that the big five leagues are the only leagues better than MLS in Europe and all the other leagues are somewheres equal to MLS or below it.... MLS isn't even the best league in Concacaf... I'd say Portugal, Russia, Turkey, and the Netherlands all have leagues well, well above MLS level and Belgium are also better but its getting closer. I think MLS is improving a lot and with the edition of the new TAM money coming in it will probably be above the Swiss, Ukrainian and Greek level leagues this year, TFC I think would do very well in all these leagues and could compete in Belguim but would they spend way more than every other team outside of Atlanta and the flashy teams.

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7 hours ago, Free kick said:

To clarify,  now that i am thinking about it further,  the 5 mill for Edu that i mentioned may have been in Canadian dollars.  By the way, the league use to, and maybe still does, require the clubs to keep this money “in trust” so that its used for player/club development purposes.  TFC used that money to rip out the field turf at BMO field and replace it with natural grass.  That, is the most important legacy of Maurice Edu. 

Getting back to the point,  there is no point going down the path of how the turkish league’s competitiveness stacks up against this and that league in mid sized european countries.  As an FYI,   i referred to the UEFA coefficient for champions league slots to get an idea and it lists it just behind sweden and Belgium.   But that can be argued endlessly, so i wont go there.   But what is certain,  its not France, Spain, Germany, England and Italy,  thats where the best talent plays.  And, three million for a transfer is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things.   These two points you can verify youselves.   There are sites you can go to check player values and tranfer fees.  

 

It is true that the transfer amount is a pittance. If anyone has a real upside, and is young, they draw more. Maybe the way the MLS works is not conducive to a higher transfer fee, but it is what teams in Europe pay for a promising teenager out of Uruguay who may be in some Argentine system already. They are paying for Larin what they paid for Negredo last summer, almost the same, a 32-year old who has not scored with any frequency in the last 4 seasons, and had last really good year in 2012-13. Just checked: Negredo does not even have 500 minutes with them this season.

As for Turkey, the UEFA coefficient is not reliable we are talking about a top club, major stadium, huge fan base. Any of Fenerbace or Galatasaray would be similar. In any case, all the coefficient is saying is that Turkish clubs have done poorly in Europe over the past 5 years. There isn't a team in Sweden anywhere near the power and quality of the top three in Turkey.

Edit: Where you are right, IMO, is that no one in any top league feels he has anything to offer of note, and they are not stupid. They don't see him as a major promise, and they do scout properly, I would say. But they scout leagues where they are sure the level is highly competitive and anyone standing out is doing so for a reason. Combined with the fact that buying someone out of these top leagues (Argentina,  Brazil especially) understands that there are certain price ranges, and that you are never going to steal a gem for 3 million, ever.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist
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As mentioned earlier the 3M fee is low because MLS fears Larin, his agent and Besiktas will call out the 3 year club options in his contract as illegal which will lead to Besiktas signing him on a free transfer and then both parties haggling over the youth development compensation required because he is under 23. This is basically a compromise deal.

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I think that the shady MLS contract option system might be playing a role in the low transfer fee. Its almost like MLS is saying "we'll give him to you for a good deal and wont take you to court for just signing him while we possibly? sorta? maybe? have him under contract". Its lower risk for both Besiktas and MLS and Besiktas gets the player they want for a low cost, and MLS gets atleast something and also avoids a public embarrasment if one of their most hyped prospects beats the system and walks out on a free. 

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3 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

As mentioned earlier the 3M fee is low because MLS fears Larin, his agent and Besiktas will call out the 3 year club options in his contract as illegal which will lead to Besiktas signing him on a free transfer and then both parties haggling over the youth development compensation required because he is under 23. This is basically a compromise deal.

beat me to it!

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18 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It is true that the transfer amount is a pittance. If anyone has a real upside, and is young, they draw more. Maybe the way the MLS works is not conducive to a higher transfer fee, but it is what teams in Europe pay for a promising teenager out of Uruguay who may be in some Argentine system already. They are paying for Larin what they paid for Negredo last summer, almost the same, a 32-year old who has not scored with any frequency in the last 4 seasons, and had last really good year in 2012-13. Just checked: Negredo does not even have 500 minutes with them this season.

As for Turkey, the UEFA coefficient is not reliable we are talking about a top club, major stadium, huge fan base. Any of Fenerbace or Galatasaray would be similar. In any case, all the coefficient is saying is that Turkish clubs have done poorly in Europe over the past 5 years. There isn't a team in Sweden anywhere near the power and quality of the top three in Turkey. 

 

14 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

As mentioned earlier the 3M fee is low because MLS fears Larin, his agent and Besiktas will call out the 3 year club options in his contract as illegal which will lead to Besiktas signing him on a free transfer and then both parties haggling over the youth development compensation required because he is under 23. This is basically a compromise deal.

Perhaps. This would make more sence.  But its in the interest of the league or any club anywhere to get as much as possible for transfers.   And, they do tout that option publically that this is what MLS can do for talent.  Its a stepping stone league for many players. Not the veterans obviously. 

That was the motivational behind the signing of Miguel Almiron by Atlanta.  This guy was being chased by many of the big clubs in Europe.  They are now on the heels of an Argentine star from Independiente.   You  can be certain that when he or almiron moves, it will be for much much more that what Larin is moving for. Given these examples,  the league cant be happy about this move.  

Edited by Free kick
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58 minutes ago, BradMack said:

I think that the shady MLS contract option system might be playing a role in the low transfer fee. Its almost like MLS is saying "we'll give him to you for a good deal and wont take you to court for just signing him while we possibly? sorta? maybe? have him under contract". Its lower risk for both Besiktas and MLS and Besiktas gets the player they want for a low cost, and MLS gets atleast something and also avoids a public embarrasment if one of their most hyped prospects beats the system and walks out on a free. 

Maybe.  But other lesser talents have moved for more.  And its in every business interest to maximize $$$.  

I think the number one problem is that his goal production dropped significantly in each of his past two years.  And he forced their hand, at the wrong time.

Edited by Free kick
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The move could also be a precursor toward Besiktas’ transfer of star striker Cenk Tosun, who is wanted by Newcastle and Crystal Palace according to reports. Besiktas won Group G in the UEFA Champions League and faces Bayern Munich in the first knockout round.

Sounds like our boy will face Bayern Munich with Hutchinson!!! I'm taking the day off for both matches!!!!

Edited by Ansem
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21 hours ago, Chad_Impact said:

I don't think MLS is crappy, but it's not as good as many European leagues. Where did you think Larin was going to go? He's coming from the MLS, off his worst season yet. If he does well at Besiktas, THEN he can make a big move.

If the Turkish league is on the same level of Belgium (it's higher) that would still be a great level for his development. You think he's going to walk into a descent Prem, Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga, or even Ligue 1 side and get consistent minutes right now? Most of us here are questioning if he can even get consistent minutes there. Besiktas is a great club to play for, as our top player Hutchinson has shown. 

Like I said, Besiktas came first in a group that included Leipzig, Monaco and Porto, what is there more to say. 

I wasn't hoping or expecting anything in particular.  The point I was making is that if we want to see progress in our talent pool for national team and enhance the confidence,  this kind of news doesn't do that.   In concacaf, in particular,  a top rate talent at the fwd position can take you far.   Witness past honduran sides. 

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10 hours ago, Obinna said:

First priority is to watch Canadians at the biggest clubs, which inevitability leads me to watching a lot of Burnley.

 

10 hours ago, Obinna said:

All in all, about 60% of the club football I watch is MLS and 40% is everything else.

10 hours ago, Obinna said:

After that, I just watch want to watch good football.

I'm all in it with you on this @Obinna..... My priority when watching football is basically following on CANCON... Also tuned in a couple of times maybe this year to watch Europa League matches involving Red Star Belgrade, lol.. 

As far as TFC, I'm like you, have really enjoyed watching them this year whether there is CanCon or not in the starting 11, but it makes it more enjoyable I'll admit when at least Oso is in the starting 11 as he is the lone CANMNter as we all know from TFC that pretty much has a lock on his starting 11 spot and likely will be the case next season too or so I expect it to be....  As far as the Whitecaps, this season I obviously enjoyed the game more once Davies was inserted or the few games he started, I really enjoyed... Kept an eye on the Impact, particularly since the arrival of Piette and also kept tabs on Ballou, though, his playing time significantly went down for the final third of the season or so...  Next year with all the young CANMNters now playing in the Impact, should be worth watching as wrong as this sounds as TFC supporters, lmfao...  Def wanna watch that round of 16 CL match involving Bayern & Beşiktaş (with our boy Atiba and who knows, maybe Larin too, unless he gets loaned out or is an unused sub)

10 hours ago, Obinna said:

CanMNT will be my number 1 priority for the foreseeable future.

That is exactly how I feel @Obinna too.. But as hard CANMNT fans as we are, it is a little frustrating to wait until the next date that they play as the CSA does quite poorly sometimes in scheduling/arranging matches in all FIFA windows, not saying that they don't schedule anything during Fifa windows, but have left us in the dark a fair number of times (see Nov. Fifa date as the most recent example).... More impatience grows now (from my side anyways) as this current core of the CANMNT has been building a little bit more of momentum this past year in comparison to past editions and appears to be shaping up to one of the most exciting/talented, dynamic ones that we have seen in recent memory or within our lifetimes at least.... Hence, why us fans are anxiously waiting for their next official match.. We likely will be getting a good does of those come Sept. thanks to the Concacaf League of Nations .... One can't wait, lol and Allez Les Rouges!!!!!!

P. S: CANMNT was considered the most entertaining side during this past Concacaf Gold Cup... The Toronto Sun wrote an article on it , in fact

 

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2 hours ago, Free kick said:

I wasn't hoping or expecting anything in particular.  The point I was making is that if we want to see progress in our talent pool for national team and enhance the confidence,  this kind of news doesn't do that.   In concacaf, in particular,  a top rate talent at the fwd position can take you far.   Witness past honduran sides. 

Sorry, but one of our top young players moving from MLS to Besiktas is a confidence enhancing move. Now he just has to make the most of his opportunity.

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11 hours ago, Ansem said:

The move could also be a precursor toward Besiktas’ transfer of star striker Cenk Tosun, who is wanted by Newcastle and Crystal Palace according to reports. Besiktas won Group G in the UEFA Champions League and faces Bayern Munich in the first knockout round.

Sounds like our boy will face Bayern Munich with Hutchinson!!! I'm taking the day off for both matches!!!!

There is no way that Besiktas gets rid of Tosun now, impossible. They don't have a replacement and that would be them saying they did not care about the league or Champions. Because obviously you have to phase Larin in, and he has to be behind someone reliable, which Negredo is not. 

Also, to be clear: Besiktas does not need the money, they are spending like hell to build a contender, or trying to pick smart loan deals, they are not in selling mode.

Sorry, I'll edit: if Larin can start scoring goals in the next two-three weeks, at a pace, then maybe they would go for a major transfer fee for Tosun in the winter break, but it would be highly unlikely for Cyle to even get the minutes to try.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist
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20 hours ago, jpg75 said:

Sorry, but one of our top young players moving from MLS to Besiktas is a confidence enhancing move. Now he just has to make the most of his opportunity.

Yeah, not trying to gang up on FK, but this is absolutely an exciting move from a CMNT perspective.  I don't get the idea of being hung up on the transfer fee amount.  Sure it would be nice to have Canadians in such demand that they commanded high fees (#DaviesToMUFC) but this is still our potentially best striker moving to a team that is making real waves in the later rounds of the Champions League.  I don't care if they managed to get him for a used water bottle - it still put him in an environment, and with a team, that can bring his development to the next level.

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On 20-12-2017 at 10:35 PM, jpg75 said:

As mentioned earlier the 3M fee is low because MLS fears Larin, his agent and Besiktas will call out the 3 year club options in his contract as illegal which will lead to Besiktas signing him on a free transfer and then both parties haggling over the youth development compensation required because he is under 23. This is basically a compromise deal.

I don't buy it. If Besiktas can get him for (or practically for) nothing, they would. It's not like these are kids on a playground trying to make friends or anything. 3 mil is just the amount it takes to buy of his contract, and it's exactly the amount I predicted nearly a year ago. 

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