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45 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

This statement is contradictory. You say that CSL has less international players playing in the World Cup and national teams because they have a limit in the CSL so MLS has more of these good international players but that it is the international players that make CSL better???

Whats contradictory? The quality of CSL "DP" is better than the quality of MLS "DP" is what im suggesting. Keep reaching though

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He has become a consistent contributor on the team, which I think is the main take away this season. Won't be surprised to see him play in a top 5 league in the future if Besiktas decide to sell him.

Apparently a Besiktas fan named their daughter after Larin 

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I've traditionally (past 10+ years) viewed the CSL as being approx. the same level as the Honduran league. A few Honduran fringe-internationals have gone over there and the forwards maintained roughly the same scoring rate as they had previous to their moves. 

So now they've spent a bunch of money and added a few dozen superstars...how much better would it make any of the Honduran league clubs if they added 2 or 3 superstars?

Edited by jpg75
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Not sure why people are catching feelings over my opinion. Im not trying to debate #'s of internationals, league exports etc..Just stating my opinion. Im off this topic, people have taken this way too far. 

Best of luck to Cyle wherever he lands. Goal scorers score goals, regardless of who they play.

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1 minute ago, Fastfeet2 said:

Not sure why people are catching feelings over my opinion. Im not trying to debate #'s of internationals, league exports etc..Just stating my opinion. Im off this topic, people have taken this way too far. 

Best of luck to Cyle wherever he lands. Goal scorers score goals, regardless of who they play.

When you know your wrong

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25 minutes ago, Fastfeet2 said:

Not sure why people are catching feelings over my opinion. Im not trying to debate #'s of internationals, league exports etc..Just stating my opinion. Im off this topic, people have taken this way too far. 

Best of luck to Cyle wherever he lands. Goal scorers score goals, regardless of who they play.

You're on the internet and you posted an opinion about soccer on a forum where people debate soccer. If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen with too many cooks

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40 minutes ago, matty said:

You're on the internet and you posted an opinion about soccer on a forum where people debate soccer. If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen with too many cooks

Take the heat? I stated a few times i wasn't trying to argue, and I litetally have a bunch of grown men quoting me trying to prove MY OPINION wrong. This so called heat is becoming annoying Mr. Chef Curry. So please stop quoting me on this topic.

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^^^^  Thanks.  Didn't know this was coming up, so hopefully I can tune in.

I like TFC, but I am hoping Larin bangs a few in.  Maybe a hat trick in a 4-3 loss to TFC...?

--------------

Edit: those arrows make a lot less sense when your post gets bumped to the next page.

Edited by dyslexic nam
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8 hours ago, Fastfeet2 said:

Like i said before, not trying to start a argument, but David Villa Basti Pirlo Kaka Ashley Cole Howard Nocerino are old farts, they no longer play at world cups or at champions league level. CSL got Axel and Oscar in their prime, MLS got Bradley and Altidore.

 

By my logic the CSL is better Liga MX? Don't put words in my mouth, or make false accusations towards me. I said CSL is arguably better than MLS,  not sure where Liga MX came from. 

If you disagree, cool. There's plenty people outside of north america who disagree with you. Don't quote me for my thoughts on your post then bash me for expressing my thoughts? 

 

I am not bashing you, I am just explaining where I think the holes in your logic are. I welcome you to do the same for me (or any other poster for that matter). 

I simply bring up Liga MX to prove a point. The point is that you can't claim the CSL is a better league than MLS because the top players in the league are better. By that logic, MLS is a better league than Liga MX because the top players in the league are better. I brought up Liga MX and compared it with MLS as an example to show you why the top players are not important, the depth is.

Do you understand my point and disagree, or do you not understand my point? It doesn't seem like you want to address it, either way. You just want to focus on Oscar and Axel, as if they are representative of the average CSL player.

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4 hours ago, Fastfeet2 said:

Not sure why people are catching feelings over my opinion. Im not trying to debate #'s of internationals, league exports etc..Just stating my opinion. Im off this topic, people have taken this way too far. 

Best of luck to Cyle wherever he lands. Goal scorers score goals, regardless of who they play.

I don't think anyone is catching feelings. I think you just made a claim that is incorrect (the CSL is better than MLS) and people rightfully pointed it out. Now you are having trouble backing up your claim and are running away from it. 

If you think you might be wrong, admit it and we'll all move on. No shame in that just respect. 

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I often debate with my colleague on which league, CSL or MLS, is better.  My colleague is familiar with the CSL and the China national team and also uses the "CSL has better top players" argument.  I have accepted that the top few teams in the CSL are better than any team in MLS but I agree with Obinna in that the CSL as a whole is weaker than the MLS mainly because of depth. 

The China National team is mostly made up of players from Guangzhou Evergrande and Shanghai SIPG.  China is often competitive against South Korea and Iran, both ranked in the top 25 so the domestic players on Guangzhou and Shanghai must be decent.  Guangzhou also beat Club America in the Club World Cup a couple years ago.  

We often end up agreeing to disagree but it's good to see others debating this topic as well.  

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21 minutes ago, Edwin said:

I often debate with my colleague on which league, CSL or MLS, is better.  My colleague is familiar with the CSL and the China national team and also uses the "CSL has better top players" argument.  I have accepted that the top few teams in the CSL are better than any team in MLS but I agree with Obinna in that the CSL as a whole is weaker than the MLS mainly because of depth. 

The China National team is mostly made up of players from Guangzhou Evergrande and Shanghai SIPG.  China is often competitive against South Korea and Iran, both ranked in the top 25 so the domestic players on Guangzhou and Shanghai must be decent.  Guangzhou also beat Club America in the Club World Cup a couple years ago.  

We often end up agreeing to disagree but it's good to see others debating this topic as well.  

I'm a weirdo idiot so I'm gonna reply

I think most think the CSL could be better down the road (like a decade or so) but like 90% of people feel MLS is a stronger and more respected league be the level of play in China is low when compared to MLS.

If you removed the star Guangzhou Evergrande players and did the same with say Colorado Rapids and had them play like 5 games, Rapids would win 3 out of the 5 games and there might be a draw. The player rules hold it back a lot because China isn't there yet when it comes to producing players. I do think they'll be a power but they are not there yet.

Contrary to the "China is doing well against Iran and S. Korea" statement, they lost 2-0 Uzbekistan (a team Canada beat 2-1) and 1-0 to Syria (a nation without an operational home stadium and barely functioning league) and unlikely to be going to the 2018 World Cup as a result of those loses and will likely finish under both nations.

As for Guangzhou beating Club America, Guangzhou lost to Sanfrecce Hiroshima and the year before Auckland City beat Cruz Azul. Nothing that happens at the Club World Cup matters to anyone right now.

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19 minutes ago, matty said:

I'm a weirdo idiot so I'm gonna reply

I think most think the CSL could be better down the road (like a decade or so) but like 90% of people feel MLS is a stronger and more respected league be the level of play in China is low when compared to MLS.

If you removed the star Guangzhou Evergrande players and did the same with say Colorado Rapids and had them play like 5 games, Rapids would win 3 out of the 5 games and there might be a draw. The player rules hold it back a lot because China isn't there yet when it comes to producing players. I do think they'll be a power but they are not there yet.

Contrary to the "China is doing well against Iran and S. Korea" statement, they lost 2-0 Uzbekistan (a team Canada beat 2-1) and 1-0 to Syria (a nation without an operational home stadium and barely functioning league) and unlikely to be going to the 2018 World Cup as a result of those loses and will likely finish under both nations.

As for Guangzhou beating Club America, Guangzhou lost to Sanfrecce Hiroshima and the year before Auckland City beat Cruz Azul. Nothing that happens at the Club World Cup matters to anyone right now.

I 100% agree that MLS is the more stronger, deeper and respected league.                 

China did lose to Uzbekistan and Syria but you also cannot downplay the fact that China 'only' lost 3-2 in S. Korea, beat S. Korea 1-0 at home and lost 1-0 in Iran.  Canada beat Uzbekistan but that was a friendly in a neutral venue.   China will definitely not qualify for the World Cup.  

I only brought up the Club World Cup match between Guangzhou and Club America because, well, my colleague always uses it as an example but also, because a CSL team has never played a MLS team so this is all we have to go by.

Again, all I am saying is that based on the reasons outlined in my previous post, I think Guangzhou and Shanghai are better than, say, Portland Timbers, Seattle Sounders and TFC.  But honestly, I really don't know enough about the abilities of the Chinese national team players to really comment.       

                       

 

 

       

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1 hour ago, Edwin said:

I often debate with my colleague on which league, CSL or MLS, is better.  My colleague is familiar with the CSL and the China national team and also uses the "CSL has better top players" argument.  I have accepted that the top few teams in the CSL are better than any team in MLS but I agree with Obinna in that the CSL as a whole is weaker than the MLS mainly because of depth. 

The China National team is mostly made up of players from Guangzhou Evergrande and Shanghai SIPG.  China is often competitive against South Korea and Iran, both ranked in the top 25 so the domestic players on Guangzhou and Shanghai must be decent.  Guangzhou also beat Club America in the Club World Cup a couple years ago.  

We often end up agreeing to disagree but it's good to see others debating this topic as well.  

I never understood this until I actually looked into it myself. I was astonished to see just how true your statement is. Here is the list I made again for reference:

Guangzhou Evergrande: Liao Lisheng (China), Mei Fang (China)Zhang Linpeng (China), Feng Xiaoting (China), Paulinho (Brazil), Martinez (Colombia), Zheng Zhi (China), Goulart (Brazil), Rong Hao (China), Zhang Wenzhao (China), Huang Bowen (China), Liu Jian (China), Zeng Cheng (China), Yu Hanchao (China), Zhang Chenglin (China), Kim Hyung-Il (South Korea), Zou Zheng (China), Wang Jingbin (China), Zheng Long (China), Gao Lin (China), Li Xuepeng (China) 21

It is not hard to see why they dominate China. It is not just because of Paulinho and Martinez, that's for sure.

Guangzhou Evergrande are so dominate that they have won every year since 2011. Is this any different from Celtic winning the SPL every single season? I would say no.

The whole reason the CSL even came up was because we were discussing places for Larin to move and @Fastfeet2, listed several leagues he thought would arguably be an improvement over MLS, among them the CSL. 

Well, I think everyone (except him) would agree there is no argument to be had. The CSL right now would not give Larin better competition day-in and day-out. Just as moving to the SPL wouldn't either.

At least moving to a big fish in a small pond like Celtic would give him Champions League or UEFA League games. Not sure Asian Champions League games with Guangzhou can match that. I don't even know if they are an improvement over CCL.

 

Side bar on the Chinese NT:

I don't know if the situation at Guangzhou is intentionally set up to benefit China's NT, but I think it's interesting to see 19 Chinese internationals getting coached daily by Luis Felipe Scolari (and before that, Marcello Lippi). Ignoring the brief period in between where the team was ran by Fabio Cannavaro (still a good person to learn from), the Chinese NT (essentially) has been trained by world class elite coaches. 

This makes it even more incredible that China is not yet qualified for the World Cup! :o 

The world class coaching has finally made it to the official Chinese NT as of 2016, as Lippi has been managing them since then. Still they are second last in their group, 7 points behind Uzbekistan with time running out.

Whenever we complain that Canada needs world class coaching to make the World Cup, we should reference China. Their failure proves to Canada that breaking the bank on a manager is not necessary. 

Edited by Obinna
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11 minutes ago, Edwin said:

I only brought up the Club World Cup match between Guangzhou and Club America because, well, my colleague always uses it as an example but also, because a CSL team has never played a MLS team so this is all we have to go by.

How to reply: So J League and A League are better than CSL? :)

13 minutes ago, Obinna said:

 

I don't know if the situation at Guangzhou is intentionally set up to benefit China's NT, but I think it's interesting to see 19 Chinese internationals getting coached daily by Luis Felipe Scolari (and before that, Marcello Lippi). Ignoring the brief period in between where the team was ran by Fabio Cannavaro (still a good person to learn from), the Chinese NT (essentially) has been trained by world class elite coaches. 

This makes it even more incredible that China is not yet qualified for the World Cup! :o 

The world class coaching has finally made it to the official Chinese NT as of 2016, as Lippi has been managing them since then. Still they are second last in their group, 7 points behind Uzbekistan with time running out.

Whenever we complain that Canada needs world class coaching to make the World Cup, we should reference China. Their failure proves to Canada that breaking the bank on a manager is not necessary. 

Yea but China's playing the long game. They know they're not making it now but are planning on winning the WC by 2040. With 50m playing in China they might manage that

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The shocking thing about Larin is how he went unoticed by the CSA . Larin was not a member of any Canadian youth national teams, be it U17 or U20, only getting noticed when he had a very good freshman season at Connecticut in the NCAA  and went straight to making appearances with our senior national team . I remember Larin from my involvement at the time with a local Toronto youth soccer club, one of our teams was playing in a tournament in the Niagara area in an early season May tournament. I was responsible for looking after our competitive teams from the U8 to U11 age groups. Our U9 boys team at the time was playing in this Niagara area tournament and their first game was versus Brampton Youth Soccer Club U9 boys team. I remember talking to our coach and him telling me this first game was going to be a difficult one as this Brampton team was considered one of the best at this age group at the time. The first game begins versus Brampton, now remember this is the U9 age group so they were playing 7 a side soccer, we are holding our own and we take the lead , about 15 minutes into the first half I notice the Brampton team which had no substitutes all of a sudden had an influx of about 4 players that had just arrived late to the game added to their bench. Within a few minutes their coach makes some changes putting a few of the newly arrived players into the game. The game now starts to change with this Brampton team taking control of the game and scoring two quick goals to take the lead both from this one player who stood out from the rest from his size and from his talent he was just in a different league than everyone else on the field. Me being me I remember one of the Brampton parents telling me that particular players name, his name was Cyle Larin, and he went on to score another one in the game making the final 3-1 Brampton it was 2004. Forward to 9 years later I'm at St. Micheals College School in Toronto,  it's around mid June . I'm sitting in the stands of the school stadium watching the Ontario High School Boys Soccer championship game. One school from Brampton versus a school from Toronto. The Brampton School wins the game and this one player in particular stood out the whole game , he was big but very talented scored one or two goals in this game, I look at the program to see what this player's name was. His name was Cyle Larin and I'm like wait that name rings a bell and I'm able to remember where I first heard that name from, however, this time I try and keep track of him because someone at the game tells me he had already committed to playing with Connecticut in NCAA div. 1 soccer in the US. Thank God the CSA finally had the smarts to get him into our senior side when he was still at Connecticut or else he may have been another player who might have found another country to play with and mainly because the CSA never included him in any of our youth national teams, Cyle Larin did not get good  just like that as you can see from my recollection of him he was always one of the better players throughout his youth soccer career.

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