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Ashtone Morgan


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On 4/3/2018 at 10:03 PM, Vince193 said:

The Issue is Hoilett can't play in that formation. He's not really suited to be a ten (I also don't see Canada using one) and he's not a good enough finisher to play as a FW.

3-4-3 Hoilett can play in that. Been advocating for three at the back for YEARS!!! Nice to see other folks are starting to catch on.

 

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As has been mentioned previously the problem with 3 at the back is our lack of quality CB's. If we switch to 3 CB's you're deciding to drop a midfielder or a forward (if we were to go with 2 strikers). So essentially you go with Jakovic or Vitoria on the field in place of either Piette, Osorio or one of the fowards such as Cavallini or Larin. That's not a switch i want to make and i LOVE 3 back formations.

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For instance, the best formation i can think for us with 3 at the back would be 3-4-2-1:

-------------------------Borjan-------------------

-------James-----Jakovic---Vitoria-----

A/P/C-----Hutch-----Arfield---deJong

----------Davies-------------------Hoilett----

----------------------Cavallini-------------------

 

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31 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

For instance, the best formation i can think for us with 3 at the back would be 3-4-2-1:

-------------------------Borjan-------------------

-------James-----Jakovic---Vitoria-----

A/P/C-----Hutch-----Arfield---deJong

----------Davies-------------------Hoilett----

----------------------Cavallini-------------------

 

You would have to rearrange the position of there centerbacks to Jakovic----Vitoria----James because  Vitoria would get scolded if he had to face a winger as a wide CB and would be great against Target strikers

 

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----------------------------------Borjan-------------------------------------
--------Hutchinson--------Jakovic-----------James-------------
Petrasso--------------------Piette--------------------------Davies--
--------------------Arfield-----------------Osorio------------------------
---------------------------------------------------Hoilett--------------------
--------------------------------Cavallini-------------------------------------

Why not. 

 

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41 minutes ago, badname22 said:

You would have to rearrange the position of there centerbacks to Jakovic----Vitoria----James because  Vitoria would get scolded if he had to face a winger as a wide CB and would be great against Target strikers

 

I put him there because he's left footed and he'll have help from the sweeper.

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41 minutes ago, honestseveran said:

----------------------------------Borjan-------------------------------------
--------Hutchinson--------Jakovic-----------James-------------
Petrasso--------------------Piette--------------------------Davies--
--------------------Arfield-----------------Osorio------------------------
---------------------------------------------------Hoilett--------------------
--------------------------------Cavallini-------------------------------------

Why not. 

 

Interesting lineup in that it does seem to get our best players on the pitch together. 

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5 hours ago, kacbru said:

Disagree.  The time to experiment is in friendlies (oops, we don't play those).  

Agreed that we don't play enough of those.  I think the best time to experiment with player selections and 'B' team callups is in friendlies.  

But with our best players out there vs US Virgin Islands or Dominica I can't see it being an issue trying a 3-5-2 or 3-4-2-2 if Herdman has any interest in those formations.  Those are teams we should beat handily in any formation with our best players, if we have any aspirations of qualifying for 2022.

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18 hours ago, Wingback6 said:

3-4-3 Hoilett can play in that. Been advocating for three at the back for YEARS!!! Nice to see other folks are starting to catch on.

 

You choose a formation to suit the players you have, not the other way around.

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17 hours ago, honestseveran said:

----------------------------------Borjan-------------------------------------
--------Hutchinson--------Jakovic-----------James-------------
Petrasso--------------------Piette--------------------------Davies--
--------------------Arfield-----------------Osorio------------------------
---------------------------------------------------Hoilett--------------------
--------------------------------Cavallini-------------------------------------

Why not. 

 

Because Hutch is not a defender. I can see what you are trying to do but I am not a fan of playing people out of position. That said, if I played one of our DMs as a defender, it would be Piette rather than Hutch.

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18 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

Because Hutch is not a defender. I can see what you are trying to do but I am not a fan of playing people out of position. That said, if I played one of our DMs as a defender, it would be Piette rather than Hutch.

In fairness to him Hutch did play as a defender for us earlier in his career, including being named to the all-tournament team at the 2003 U20WC for his stalwart efforts as a CB.

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45 minutes ago, Craig11rm said:

Atiba has played quite a bit of right back and is a great CDM. He would probably be better at RCB than most of our CB’s. 

This.

Plus his backline leadership, preserving 35 year old legs and additional CB depth.

Edited by honestseveran
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I really think we collectively over value the RB position. Different positions on the field have different levels of influence on a game. Personally I think the most important positions are attackers and central midfielders. Centre backs would be next in line. I don't like the idea of taking our best player out of his natural position to play him in a position that has less influence on a game.

We have talked for years about RB being our problem position, but I don't really understand why to be honest. Do we give up most of our goals due to weak defending at RB? Or is it a lack of offensive production that is the problem? If so, how many goals have been created from the LB position vs from the RB position? I seriously doubt there is much disparity, but I don't have any numbers/facts to back that up.

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17 minutes ago, Kent said:

 

We have talked for years about RB being our problem position, but I don't really understand why to be honest. 

I don't think anyone is saying that RB is a big problem now.  It was in the past because we had literally no serviceable RBs outside of Ledgerwood, who competed hard and rarely lost us games but definitely had his limitations.  Now we have options.

I think the point of this suggested lineup was trying to get our best 11 players on the field, not using Hutch to solve a RB issue.  That means (arguably) finding a spot for Arfield, Hutch, Hoilett, Davies, Osorio and Piette, plus your backline and 1 forward.  

Also the fact that Petrasso, Godinho, Cordova, DeJong, Adekugbe, and Morgan all seem suited to a modern wingback role.

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I dont think we overvalue the RB.  But we had a real gem with Stalteri for a decade and its been a weak spot since he left.   And now the squeaky wheel is getting all the grease.  The board is still worried about the attackers, see endless arguments on who should start and who is the number #2 etc.  But we dont focus as much on other positions because of some new found depth there.  If Hutch retires, well the midfield is probably in good hands in the future.  If AJH is hurt, or Cavallini wont come etc, its not the end of the world anymore. 

Remember when Henry had to fill in at RB and it was a shit show??  Seems like we go through this over and over and when a guy like Petrasso or Aird plays a few decent RB games our sphincters all relax.  But no one has really made the spot his own.  Lately we have been more worried about CB.  I am worried about Keeper.  If something happened to Borjan, who is at a compareable level and ready to step in to CONCACAF cauldrons.  

 

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9 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I dont think we overvalue the RB.  But we had a real gem with Stalteri for a decade and its been a weak spot since he left

With all due respect to Stalteri's great service to his country, his play at the end of his time when he was stuck on the bench at club level or not even training with his club showed in his play for us.  It showed the lack of real depth we had at that time.

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18 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Remember when Henry had to fill in at RB and it was a shit show??

Clearly wasn't a RB overall which was to no-one surprise. However I thought he was surprisingly good when he was good, and actually put in a couple of decent crosses coming forward. If anything he looked worse defensively than he should have been and slightly better coming forward than expected.

Either way honestly for me no worse than Petrasso/Aird at RB and for what he lacked coming forward he was better than both Petrasso and Aird defensively.

Hopefully an experiment we don't need to repeat even if we have/are doing it in reverse with wingers. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I dont think we overvalue the RB.  But we had a real gem with Stalteri for a decade and its been a weak spot since he left.   And now the squeaky wheel is getting all the grease.  The board is still worried about the attackers, see endless arguments on who should start and who is the number #2 etc.  But we dont focus as much on other positions because of some new found depth there.  If Hutch retires, well the midfield is probably in good hands in the future.  If AJH is hurt, or Cavallini wont come etc, its not the end of the world anymore. 

Remember when Henry had to fill in at RB and it was a shit show??  Seems like we go through this over and over and when a guy like Petrasso or Aird plays a few decent RB games our sphincters all relax.  But no one has really made the spot his own.  Lately we have been more worried about CB.  I am worried about Keeper.  If something happened to Borjan, who is at a compareable level and ready to step in to CONCACAF cauldrons.  

 

I remember when Henry filled in at RB and in my opinion it wasn't nearly as bad as everyone thought. According to Transfermarkt, here are the games that he played at RB for us.

August 2012 - friendly vs Trinidad (in USA) - 2-0 win
November 2013 - friendly in Czech Republic - 2-0 loss
November 2014 - friendly in Panama - 0-0 draw
March 2016 - WCQ vs Mexico - 3-0 loss
June 2016 - friendly vs Azerbaijan (in Austria) - 1-1 draw
June 2016 - friendly vs Uzbekistan (in Austria) - 2-1 win
September 2016 - WCQ in Honduras - 2-1 loss
September 2016 - WCQ vs El Salvador - 3-1 win

In the Mexico game (just rewatched the highlights) he could have gotten up on the crosser of the ball on the first goal, but someone in the middle could have won the header too. The second goal was on a giveaway by Hutch, followed by a central defender (Straith?) getting torched for pace. The third goal came after a clearance from Henry, and nobody was helping pick up men on the back post. The ball came straight back and was put in.

In the game against Honduras, the first goal was a shot with eyes that went through everyone that was in the box from a corner kick. The second goal came from a cross on the right side, and Henry was beaten to the back post by his man who put it in.

In the game against El Salvador, based on the highlights it didn't look like Henry was at fault for the goal, though he wasn't in the frame. Not sure if he had just made a run up field before a counter attack that caught us.

So those are the games that matter. I would say he was at fault for 1 goal. If you are being really critical you could say 3 goals, including the first and 3rd goals against Mexico. I would also say that all of the results in the games listed above (including the friendlies) are either good results, or expected results (or both). So like I said, in my opinion his struggles there were overblown. It's not his best position of course, but getting beaten by Mexico and losing in Honduras aren't exactly shockingly bad.

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6 hours ago, jpg75 said:

In fairness to him Hutch did play as a defender for us earlier in his career, including being named to the all-tournament team at the 2003 U20WC for his stalwart efforts as a CB.

Good point but just to be clear, I'm not saying Hutch couldn't do a job there!

He has a lot of strings to his bow and IMHO is still our "best" player: he is a good ball winner and hard to beat, but the things that stand out most for me are his technical ability and vision, both of which are fully exploited as a midfielder but would be much less so as a defender. Which no doubt is why he plays in midfield instead of defence.

Lots of shiny new and talented midfielders in our squad now but Hutch is still #1 for me and that is why I want to play him where he can have the most influence on the game.

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