What do you expect the CPL to be like?

[matty]

Since the CPL thread has become a bottomless pit of out there speculation, rants and talking about WCW, I figured I'd start a new one focused on what everyone is realistically expecting the CPL to be like when it arrives (think first 5 years not the next 25). To keep this thread from going the way of the main thread, please do not reply to others expectations. If someone says "it's bullshit and won't happen" don't reply or debate them cause then we'll just have the same thread twice. Simply state what you expect for the early years of CPL.

ME

Based on current rumours I'm thinking we'll be seeing a 6 team league with a 20 game season (no matter how I look at it no other number makes sense) and a single table. If all goes well, this will expand to 8 teams at year 5 and become a conference league with 20 games.

The league will be about 50% Canadian (this will slowly increase to 70%), with 12-20 CanMNT capped players signing up and NCAA, L1O, PLSQ and USL guys filling out the Canadian roster spots. The other half will mostly be Americans (30-50%, some will be able to play at the level of MLS but most USL level guys will sign as depth), Caribbeans and Latin Americans (25-40%) able to make CONCACAF national teams (not called Mexico, US and Costa Rica), and Europeans (10-20%) from 3.Liga and League One level leagues. There will be DPs (thinking 2) and they will be older European players with impressive CVs that include national team call-ups (not quite up to MLS or CSL but better than ISL). Overall league play will be around League One or Two.

There will be rules in places for 3 Canadians to start and 3 on bench.

The six teams will be in Hamilton, Winnipeg, Regina, Toronto, Calgary and FC Edmonton (I think they'll join still). Fan support will under perform (3500-4500) for the first 3 years but grow to the needed 5500. By focusing on the west I think they can build a different sort of identity and allow natural rivalries to form (CalvEd, TorvHam, WinvReg).

There will be TV, no idea what channel but TSN seems like a front-runner and I can't help but think TLN is an option (especially for the early years).

Champ will go to CCL.

[-Hammer-]

Honestly, I expect it to be like an Ottawa game in the NASL to start, only with real rivalries and supporter section travelling, and slow and steady growth, culminating in absolute bedlam in a V-Cup one day.

As far as television, I would like to see occasional games replace poker, dog shows and equestrian competitions on TSN2 or at least a consistent presence on local cable. I don't expect the full season to see national cable broadcast, and growing to CFL levels.

[Kent]

I have more hopes than expectations at this point. Here are my expectations for the first 5 years.

1. Some number of professional soccer teams, all within Canada's borders.

2. Many new professional playing opportunities for Canadian players.

3. A Canadian team champion every year.

4. I will be ecstatic about it's existence, and hoping it continues.

[TRM]

A day late and a dollar short?     Sorry but I can't resist. Must not post while drinking beer.

Seriously I see few regions (parts of the prairies and Ontario, maybe Quebec) with 5 or 6 teams playing at the D3 level. Hey ya got to start somewhere.

[rob.notenboom]

I think the league will be a real thing that we can have real discussions about

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

NASL quality with real banter and atmosphere.  Not knocking Eddies or fury just isn't the same to average Joe Canadian without knowing your opponents.  

[C2SKI]

I expect it'll be one of the toughest leagues in the world to play in. Crazy travel, questionable pitches, difficult weather, and hard-nosed players. I can hardly wait!!

[Gopherbashi]

8 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

I think the league will be a real thing that we can have real discussions about

#PostsFrom2014

[Macksam]

I expect to see a fair number of 16 and 17 year old Canadian kids playing with seasoned veterans/foreigners while getting 100 plus professional games under their belt by the age of 20. This will turn them into legit prospects who can go to Europe and give us an edge over the college boy driven soccer south of the border.

[Admin]

6 hours ago, Macksam said:

I expect to see a fair number of 16 and 17 year old Canadian kids playing with seasoned veterans/foreigners while getting 100 plus professional games under their belt by the age of 20. This will turn them into legit prospects who can go to Europe and give us an edge over the college boy driven soccer south of the border.

MLS and the USA are really just waking up to academies and if they ever reform the NCAA I can't imagine where they might land in a single generation. 

Not sure the players in the CanPL would be so young.  If there was a handful of those I would be both happy and surprised. 

[Macksam]

5 hours ago, admin said:

MLS and the USA are really just waking up to academies and if they ever reform the NCAA I can't imagine where they might land in a single generation. 

Not sure the players in the CanPL would be so young.  If there was a handful of those I would be both happy and surprised. 

I suspect we'll see a handful thrown into the deep end, where some we'll sink, some we'll barely keep their heads above water and some we'll become sharks. I am excited.

[Nello]

5 hours ago, admin said:

MLS and the USA are really just waking up to academies and if they ever reform the NCAA I can't imagine where they might land in a single generation. 

is there a plan in place to reform the CIS or align it with the LTPD, CPL etc?

[Admin]

3 hours ago, Neil Koheil said:

is there a plan in place to reform the CIS or align it with the LTPD, CPL etc?

Don't know, haven't heard anything like that. 

[Complete Homer]

I expect something a bit below NASL for the first few seasons, and where it goes from there is dependent on the quota and the rate of expansion (in terms of stretching the player pool), and level of support (if we aren't averaging 5000 across the league by year 4 or 5 I don't think the spending remains as high as bring floated, though a few very successful markets can float some poorer ones in single entity). 

I think the league will be in a position to lowball some recently unemployed NASL guys who aren't interested in cutting their paycheck by half or more for USL, helping quality early 

I think we see an early round of expansion, with one or two teams that weren't ready for 2018, and a maybe a 9th and 10th team by 2028 if things go well

Less optimistically, I suspect that "mandatory academies" will morph into "mandatory provincial D3 affiliate" as a cost saving measure for several franchises (or all). I also expect relatively few contributions to our national team within the first decade, outside of winter camps and providing short term safe harbour for unattached CMNT veterand

[mianjo]

First of all i want to see a Canadian Professional Soccer League, but i believe it is being done the wrong way round, instead of starting at the top, they need to start at the bottom with a Pyramid system, just like they do in England.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_football_league_system    Start with city/town leagues, then regional provincial divisions, then provincial league then maybe  CPL, which could be divided into east and west divisions, with maybe 10 teams or more in each division

If you start with a CPL and 6-8 teams, you are running a CFL/NFL type league where no one can get into the CPL without paying a fortune in franchise fees. Travel is going to kill the CPL, how is a team in say Halifax with average crowds of say 3,000 going to afford to fly and accommodate approx 25 people to Vancouver/edmonton/Calgary or even Toronto  one or 2 times a season. I'm assuming if you have 6/7/8 teams you would have to play each team 4 times to come up with a decent schedule.

Whereas with the Pyramid system you start with thousands of teams and with a promotion/relegation system the cream of the crop rise to the top, what  everyone seems to be saying you have one team from Toronto.Montreal/Vancouver etc. WHY cant you have 3-4 teams from those cities. Do you know how many teams there are in London England?   14 professional and over 80 semi-pro /amateur teams

If you look at that Wiki link there are 22 levels of teams, you cannot start a team and put it into the Premier, you have to start it in a league that accepts new teams and has promotion/relegation so it could be around the level 14.  For example AFC Wimbledon  started in 2002 it took them 9 years to move up the different leagues before they made it into the Football league div 2, on 30 May 2016  they beat my team Plymouth Argyle at Wembley stadium before 57,956 (Of which i was one of them) to be promoted to Div 1.

What i am saying is this is a much better system giving clubs a chance to build them selves up to the top league than just setting up a closed shop league and saying this is the best.

[grasshopper1917]

I predict the league will see maybe fine beers consumed in the stands by their loyal fan base! 

[grasshopper1917]

49 minutes ago, mianjo said:

 

If you start with a CPL and 6-8 teams, you are running a CFL/NFL type league where no one can get into the CPL without paying a fortune in franchise fees. Travel is going to kill the CPL, how is a team in say Halifax with average crowds of say 3,000 going to afford to fly and accommodate approx 25 people to Vancouver/edmonton/Calgary or even Toronto  one or 2 times a season. I'm assuming if you have 6/7/8 teams you would have to play each team 4 times to come up with a decent schedule.

 

In the beginning If you have 4 teams in the east (for instance: Halifax, Hamilton, Ottawa, Quebec city) you would not have to fly in between cities (except maybe Halifax). Out West also 4 teams (for instance Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg) they are also within driving distance to each other. In the start maybe have limited East vs West matches/trips til the league got on solid financial footing.

 

I mean im in Halifax and I would have no problem seeing mostly Ottawa, Hamilton and Quebec for our home games. Maybe see one western team swing through for a little treat. I dont think that's a crazy idea starting out.  Would anyone out there be offended if your team were to play mostly withing their division for the first few years?

[Macksam]

14 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

I predict the league will see maybe fine beers consumed in the stands by their loyal fan base! 

Only craft beers and microbreweries are welcome.

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, mianjo said:

First of all i want to see a Canadian Professional Soccer League, but i believe it is being done the wrong way round, instead of starting at the top, they need to start at the bottom with a Pyramid system, just like they do in England.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_football_league_system    Start with city/town leagues, then regional provincial divisions, then provincial league then maybe  CPL, which could be divided into east and west divisions, with maybe 10 teams or more in each division

If you start with a CPL and 6-8 teams, you are running a CFL/NFL type league where no one can get into the CPL without paying a fortune in franchise fees. Travel is going to kill the CPL, how is a team in say Halifax with average crowds of say 3,000 going to afford to fly and accommodate approx 25 people to Vancouver/edmonton/Calgary or even Toronto  one or 2 times a season. I'm assuming if you have 6/7/8 teams you would have to play each team 4 times to come up with a decent schedule.

Whereas with the Pyramid system you start with thousands of teams and with a promotion/relegation system the cream of the crop rise to the top, what  everyone seems to be saying you have one team from Toronto.Montreal/Vancouver etc. WHY cant you have 3-4 teams from those cities. Do you know how many teams there are in London England?   14 professional and over 80 semi-pro /amateur teams

If you look at that Wiki link there are 22 levels of teams, you cannot start a team and put it into the Premier, you have to start it in a league that accepts new teams and has promotion/relegation so it could be around the level 14.  For example AFC Wimbledon  started in 2002 it took them 9 years to move up the different leagues before they made it into the Football league div 2, on 30 May 2016  they beat my team Plymouth Argyle at Wembley stadium before 57,956 (Of which i was one of them) to be promoted to Div 1.

What i am saying is this is a much better system giving clubs a chance to build them selves up to the top league than just setting up a closed shop league and saying this is the best.

If an open system and free market would create a league here, it would have happened already. A closed system isn't optimal, but it's gotten enough money interested to make this possible. A closed league is infinitely better than no league 

[Gopherbashi]

1 hour ago, mianjo said:

First of all i want to see a Canadian Professional Soccer League, but i believe it is being done the wrong way round, instead of starting at the top, they need to start at the bottom with a Pyramid system, just like they do in England.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_football_league_system    Start with city/town leagues, then regional provincial divisions, then provincial league then maybe  CPL, which could be divided into east and west divisions, with maybe 10 teams or more in each division

If you start with a CPL and 6-8 teams, you are running a CFL/NFL type league where no one can get into the CPL without paying a fortune in franchise fees. Travel is going to kill the CPL, how is a team in say Halifax with average crowds of say 3,000 going to afford to fly and accommodate approx 25 people to Vancouver/edmonton/Calgary or even Toronto  one or 2 times a season. I'm assuming if you have 6/7/8 teams you would have to play each team 4 times to come up with a decent schedule.

Whereas with the Pyramid system you start with thousands of teams and with a promotion/relegation system the cream of the crop rise to the top, what  everyone seems to be saying you have one team from Toronto.Montreal/Vancouver etc. WHY cant you have 3-4 teams from those cities. Do you know how many teams there are in London England?   14 professional and over 80 semi-pro /amateur teams

If you look at that Wiki link there are 22 levels of teams, you cannot start a team and put it into the Premier, you have to start it in a league that accepts new teams and has promotion/relegation so it could be around the level 14.  For example AFC Wimbledon  started in 2002 it took them 9 years to move up the different leagues before they made it into the Football league div 2, on 30 May 2016  they beat my team Plymouth Argyle at Wembley stadium before 57,956 (Of which i was one of them) to be promoted to Div 1.

What i am saying is this is a much better system giving clubs a chance to build them selves up to the top league than just setting up a closed shop league and saying this is the best.

I really wish the CSA would start ruffling some feathers to start building up the bottom of the pyramid (especially out west) rather than just throwing everything at the CPL and hoping it sticks.  Much healthier in the long-run that way.

[dyslexic nam]

It would be amazing if a grassroots footy pyramid evolved (or was cultivated) here in Canada, but to be honest I don't think it will happen and I don't want to wait around any longer.   The kind of soccer superstructure of a European nation, with its history and passion, can't simply be transplanted here.  For better or worse, we are exactly where we are right now - a country with great (and still growing) youth participation rates, a respectable presence in the largest league we have access to, and a mish mash of things in between.  As a jumpstart to our growth in the game, I am 100% in favour of seeking to replicate the success of MLS as a very intentionally engineered entity.  Is it ideal?  No.  Is it ideal for Canada under the present circumstances?  I think so.  

[Tuscan]

I'm hoping the league provides a place for budding CDN players to get their first pro contract. I'm not sure we'll see a bunch of kids jumping from L1O, PLSQ, and whatever the hell they have in BC as much as we might hope. A standard level of play needs to be maintained for fan engagement but hopefully that won't come at the sacrifice of providing that pro opportunity to players coming through our D3 leagues or the CanPL academies. I'm really curious where CanPL academies will be encouraged to play (i.e. what league(s)).

I also expect the CanPL to be the needed top of the pyramid to allow discussions on the evolution of D3 and creation of D2 levels.

[Marc]

In terms of league dynamics, fan experience and quality of play, I really think it'll be like the last remnants of the A-League.

I think the league will attract mostly NCAA players that haven't caught with MLS/NASL/USL/foreign pro clubs and last-chance saloon types (mid twentisomethings that have two or three years to burn on living the dream).  Most will be Americans, or foreigners that have stayed in North America after scholarships.

I think we'll see the odd returnee from lower-level Europe - the kind lacking a stable career, has hopped around teams and leagues for a number of years, needs the money and has no impending non-soccer career prospects (e.g. a Haber or a Straith type.) The math makes sense for those guys (e.g. make 50 000$ in Calgary vs 60 000$ in the middle of nowhere?)  But, in general, few Canadian Nats sign up.  Anyone that can make a decent living in Europe or that's settled out there won't come back.

I think we could see one or two mid-level, late-30s Canadian Nats being marquee players for a year or two (e.g. a De Jong or WJohnson type player) if they can make 100 000$ for sixth months of work.  I could see Issey playing in the league before his retirement, if he's still kicking around pro soccer by the time it sets up.

Most Canadians in the league will be minor local talents used to just make up the numbers.

I think we could see a lot of teams with agent-driven imports (e.g. a club hires four of five guys from a single foreign league or country, based on agent connections.)  I think you'll get a lot of the usual British flotsam from non-league football that flame out after a year.  The team that imports a whack of Brazilians from no-name, state-level "pro" Brazilian teams will disappoint.  They've never done well as imports, in general, on Canadian teams.

I think we'll see at least one or two foreign guys use this as their ticket into the country. They will disappear into the night.  

Fan rivalries will be minimal due to travel constraints, and mainly limited to guys like us banging on about it all on the Internet.  A few clubs will go the old-school attract-the-youth-soccer-crowd route and that won't work.  There will be one club that tries the desperate ethnic pitch.  One club will excel in terms of their fanbase.  Could be Edmonton.  Or Hamilton.  Hamilton really could go either way.  They could be the league's Cinderella or a total flop. But I'd bet on the former if I had to.

I think the league will do more developing Canadian coaches than Canadian players.

I suspect one club will withdraw after year two, if not earlier.

I suspect salaries will be cut drastically after year two.

I think the league will do well to average 2500 p/g attendance.

I think success will be defined by the survival of the league for four or five years, if the league lasts that long.

[Tuscan]

20 minutes ago, Marc said:

In terms of fan experience and quality of play, I really think it'll be like the last remnants of the A-League.

I think the league will attract mostly NCAA players that haven't caught on with a pro club, last-chance saloon types (mid twentisomethings that have two or three years to burn on living the dream) and the odd returnee from lower-level Europe that needs the money and has no real non-soccer career prospects (e.g. a Haber).

I think we could see one or two mid-level, late-30s Canadian Nats being marquee players for a year or two (e.g. a De Jong or De Guz.)

A sprinkling of local talent will be used to just make up the numbers.

I think we could see a lot of teams with agent-driven imports (e.g. a club hires four of five guys from a single foreign league or country, based on agent connections.)

I think we'll see at least one or two foreign guys use this as their ticket into the country. They will disappear into the night.

Fan rivalries will be minimal due to travel constraints, and mainly limited to guys like us banging on about it all on the internet.  A few clubs will go the old-school attract-the-youth-soccer-crowd route and that won't work.  There will be one club that tries the desperate ethnic pitch.

I suspect one club will withdraw after year two, if not earlier.

I suspect salaries will be cut drastically after year two.

I think the league will do well to average 2500 p/g attendance.

I think success will be defined by the survival of the league for four or five years, if the league lasts that long.

You shall be visited by three spirits, expect the first visit when the bell tolls one...

[Marc]

Hah!  Yeah, re-reading it now I can see how that reads negatively.  I'm not setting out to be a crab, but I lived through the last gasp of the CSL and the A-League/USL years and all the planning/dreaming for a new league that happened during that time.

A lot has changed since then, and some of those changes bode well. But others actually do not, particularly around the available player pool.  I'm not sure we have all the conditions to support what we want this new league to become, or what it needs to survive.  I sense a lot of "if you build it, they will come" in these discussions.  But I've been wrong before!