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Unconfirmed: Ottawa Fury to become Impact's USL affiliate. FC Montreal to be shut down


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15 hours ago, lazlo_80 said:

I mentioned it in the CPL thread to but I think for Ottawa fans this would be seen as a positive, no? It looks like this is more of a simple loan agreement between two clubs moreso than Montreal actually fielding a farm team in Ottawa.

You'd think it was just a loan agreement but if that was the case then why didn't they just say it like that and loan off whichever player they wanted. 

The way it comes off is like a corporate take over. Mr Saputo sounds like he is buying out the competition. I guess we will have to wait for further details. Why not just say FC Montreal is no more and we are moving The team to PLSQ? 

As for the Cdn championship I would agree that if they're an IMFC affiliate then they shouldn't play however I wouldn't be surprised if the CSA makes an exception putting in a stipulation. 

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16 hours ago, Kibby said:

Other supporters of affiliate clubs have said the opposite about who controls playing time.  We'll only be loaned some players probably 1 to 4.  If what you are saying is the case then im cancellin my season tickets.

I can't see how IMFC would have any control over any of that.  They don't own the Fury and the  Fury already has 15 players.. including many starters, if better Fury players have to sit so some 19year old shitter from Montreal who isn't as good plays then this is bullshit

You'd expect some of those supporters to say that, as the fanboys of USL do as well but their kidding themselves.

IMFC paying the salary of the players that will come to the Fury and the Ottawa team being the affiliate of them gives them some control. They're not sending them to sit on the bench and that's known, it comes with being a minor league affiliate of the MLS team.

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Players who play for a team in V-Cup, are cup tied, they cannot play for another team in the competition, standard practice in football. Where it gets dicey is if/when the brilliance of Dalglish coaching gets Fury to play Impact in final, how is an Impact player on loan going to play, when losing to his bosses results in losing 3 Millon in CCL revenue?

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An affiliate cannot play the Cup, it would be a travesty of the principle of competition. If Fury want to ally with Impact, then let them say good-bye to the Cup and leave the rest of us alone. I could not care less about TFC or Impact USL affiliates, and even less so Fury taking such a cowardly decision, I find it pathetic they could just fold up and shrivel away like that.

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It does seem offside to have the Fury in the competition.  Nothing against them, and not to overstate it - but the integrity of the Cup is at stake.

If if the affiliation is just about player loans, then the Fury may have a strong disincentive to compete as hard as possible against the Impact (at any stage of the competition) for fear that they would "bite the hand that feeds them".  And if they were scheduled to play each other, loaned Impact players could not be in the Fury Cup squad - which (if the Fury had multiple starter-quality players on loan) would mean that the Impact would have an easier path to the later stages since one of the teams in a small competition would be forced to field a weaker side against the Impact than against any of the other teams.

If the affiliation is more than just about player loans, the danger and conflicts of interest become even clearer and more pronounced.

Bottom line - I don't see how the two clubs can play in the same competition while being in a preferential relationship.  Just too much potential to have the Fury ensure an easier path to the final for the Impact.

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10 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

An affiliate cannot play the Cup, it would be a travesty of the principle of competition. If Fury want to ally with Impact, then let them say good-bye to the Cup and leave the rest of us alone. I could not care less about TFC or Impact USL affiliates, and even less so Fury taking such a cowardly decision, I find it pathetic they could just fold up and shrivel away like that.

Germany allows second teams to play in Cup games though usually they never make it out of the regional levels of the Cup. I think this is pretty standard for countries that allow 2nd teams to play in their pyramid to allow them to play in the Cup also. There is not much conflict of interest because the reserve team in principle should be well below the playing level of the first team and expected to lose to them anyway in the unlikely chance they would ever meet. It gets more tricky in the case of loans to higher level teams. Most leagues don't have a problem with loaned players playing in a Cup but there is some potential for conflict in a situation where a 2nd division team meets a 1st division team and has some players on loan from that same team. From a practical perspective Ottawa's situation next year is similar to that of the reserve teams, playing at a level so low that they do not have much chance of winning or much possibility of conflict. But from a theoretical perspective if USL starts improving or CPL does get going and playing at a good level and Ottawa is a good team in the league there could be a conflict of interest if a large number of players are on loan from Montreal.
 

I hope Ottawa does not get kicked out of the VCup next year though. With Edmonton also not sure of what league if any they will be playing in next year we could be back to a Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal VCup which would suck. 

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Yes Grizzly it was you who explained the German system. Spain is opposite. In Germany can 2nd teams play in B2? or is there a limit? In Spain they can be in 2nd division and are often v high level like right now the Sevilla 2nd team.

Thing is in early rounds in Spain many top flight teams use reserve and youth players depending on the rival. So they really don't have a 2nd team per se independent from the 1st.

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28 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

An affiliate cannot play the Cup, it would be a travesty of the principle of competition...

Don't see the problem if the deal only involves a few players and the Fury retain complete control over team selection decisions. This won't lead to a farce like the Real Madrid vs Castilla Copa del Rey final:

 

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It may be acceptable in places with huge pyramids, but there is no way it works on a competition as small as the V cup.  The odds of Montreal hitting the Fury are not exactly low.  And then you face all the conflict of interest issues.  Plus, if the Impact are loaning decent quality players, it is not like the gap between Bundesliga teams and the German 3rd or 4th division team.  On their day, Ottawa or Edmonton could play giant-killer and upset the MLS team.

 

I just don't see how it could work in the V cup, given the teams involved and the size of the competition.  Just because it can work in another country with a very different context does not mean that it would work here.  There is no way it doesn't bias the competition.

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Lets say Montral loans Ottawa 3-4 players deemed no quite good enough for their squad, but with enough upside that they want them to get solid minutes in  Ottawa. To me, this is a very plausible - even probable - outcome of their affiliation.

If this happens, those players can't play against their parent club.  Thus, Ottawa would necessarily be playing a much weaker team against the Impact than they would against any other club.  That can't be acceptable in a competition the size of this one.  

The only way they should even be considered for inclusion is if the loaned players are inelligible for the competition regardless of the opponent.  That is the only way the loans wouldn't bias the results.  And even then there is still the issue of Ottawa potentially making a half effort against the Impact to not jeopardize their beneficial relationship.

Honestly, I don't see how anyone could think it would be okay for two strongly affiliated clubs to both play in a small competition.

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I don't see the problem about it. Ottawa is still its own club and they have many players under contract. The CSA can put rules in telling Ottawa which Montreal players are available and that Montreal can't loan players to Ottawa for the sake of the V's Cup. It can be done in many ways. You can say that  Impact players on loan to Ottawa are ineligible and now, I'm asking those who are against it. Where's the problem in that?

The CSA just need to put a rule and it will be fine.

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The problem is that if we are talking about 3-4 players (the numbers being tossed around) that are starter quality (reasonable assumption), then the presence/absence of those players would significantly impact the overall quality of the game day squad.

if they are only disqualified from playing against Montreal, then that would be unacceptable because Montreal would be playing a substantially weaker Fury team than any other V cup competitor.

If the loanees are deemed completely ineligible for the competition due to the conflict, that would overcome the issue, but would still allow for charges that Ottawa put less effort against Montreal than against the others.  And in terms of the quality of the competition, it would mean that one of the already weaker teams would be potentially losing 1/3rd of their starting line-up.

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7 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

If the loanees are deemed completely ineligible for the competition due to the conflict, that would overcome the issue, but would still allow for charges that Ottawa put less effort against Montreal than against the others.  And in terms of the quality of the competition, it would mean that one of the already weaker teams would be potentially losing 1/3rd of their starting line-up.

I doubt that Ottawa would put less effort against Montreal than against the other teams. The players will want to show that they deserve their spot in the XI. And the maanger knows how important it is to show off an MLS club no matter if they have an affiliation or not. 

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On 12/10/2016 at 5:07 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

 I find it pathetic they could just fold up and shrivel away like that.

Agreed.  When Jeff Hunt and Eugene Melnyk made their pitches several years ago to the local govenment, Melnyk was proposing a soccer Stadium for an MLS team.  This was at time when MLS was looking for investors and asking for only 10 million to get into the league, just after Toronto got in.   Garber's quotes at the time, seemed pretty receptive.  They were looking for teams with SSS's. 

Hunt, on the other hand, wanted a CFL team and pitched the idea of a NASL team. Stating that it was just as good or almost just as good as MLS.  I knew, at that time, they were never serious about soccer.  And thats exactly whats happening and being proven.   Soccer was being used as way to make pitch attractive to naive politicians who dont know the difference between MLS, NASL, USL, ABC, PMS....etc.    When you considers the number of USL and NASL operators in canada who have stuck through it after many challenges (eg.: Edmonton, Tor Lynx) on the financial and marketing front, you feel ripped off seeing Ottawa talking of throw in the towell or downgrading after only three years.

I believe that there was a chance then for a town like Ottawa in MLS.   But now, the league has out grown these town.  They are now asking for 100mill for a team. 

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Ottawa missed it's chance at MLS they would have done well just like the other Canadian MLS cities, Melynk liked soccer he follows soccer I know for a fact, Hunt is not a soccer fan would not know what a soccer ball was if it hit him in the head, he is a traditional North American sport guy everything but soccer if you know what I mean. Enjoy your Fury farm team Ottawa soccer fans that's the best it will ever be you could have a big time team with the big crowds and the added media attention but Hunt won out and he has soccer right were he wants it in Ottawa, He wants you to know your place Ottawa soccer fans , Ottawa will stay a CFL and NHl town soccer ya ok.

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