Players you expect to see in the CPL

[Yohan]

15 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Those leagues got those players on the backs of ownership stakes and/or MLS DP level contracts. I don't think that's going to happen in CPL.

only one I'm aware of is Drogba. I don't recall Raul or Joe Cole having some kind of ownership. And hence why I said a DP mechanism to get these kind of players to sign for CPL. 

[harrycoyster]

1 minute ago, Yohan said:

only one I'm aware of is Drogba. I don't recall Raul or Joe Cole having some kind of ownership. And hence why I said a DP mechanism to get these kind of players to sign for CPL. 

I don't think the CPL is going to have DPs that are making Raul money. Bernie has been pretty critical of the pay disparity on MLS rosters. 

[matty]

1 hour ago, harrycoyster said:

I don't think the CPL is going to have DPs that are making Raul money. Bernie has been pretty critical of the pay disparity on MLS rosters. 

I agree we won't see crazy money DPs but could see something like a 35-year old guy who played 7 years in the EPL and a decade in the Championship and earned some caps signing on for a decent swan song pay-day of $200-600k. Guys who maybe don't bring name recognition but bring legitimacy (in addition to Canadian and CONCACAF internationals).

I know people hate the idea of bringing in older players on higher salaries but it does have an impact.

Just really hope they don't do what the ISL did and bring guys out of retirement.

Edited January 11, 2018 by matty

[Ansem]

Might as well relax the salary cap. I prefer a higher overall cap than DPs or other mechanism

[matty]

19 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Might as well relax the salary cap. I prefer a higher overall cap than DPs or other mechanism

Can you stop with the anti-anything-remotely-MLS stuff. Not everything about the MLS model is bad. DPs can help bring in eyeballs and image wise and you know that's true.

[harrycoyster]

36 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Might as well relax the salary cap. I prefer a higher overall cap than DPs or other mechanism

Generally speaking, I agree. But if you are in the "CPL should strive to compete with MLS and Liga MX" camp, it's hard to look at the effect players like Beckham, Giovinco, Gignac, etc. have had on those leagues and close the door on that possibility.

Even as somebody in the "CPL should strive to be the best development league possible for Canadian players" camp, I'm not really okay with a system where a team wants to go get a player like, say Kyle Beckerman, who is acclaimed in MLS circles for his work with RSL's young players, and can't because the team is already spending the full cap on their Canadian kids.

Edited January 12, 2018 by harrycoyster

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

8 hours ago, matty said:

Cause it's part of Canadian development? USL doesn't want them cause they want out of Canada. Why the hate for TFC2 in a Canadian based developmental league?

@ matty Exactly! 

[Kent]

I won’t mind if they have some sort of DP mechanism because like others have said, it draws eyeballs towards the league. But, at least with the kind of spending that happens a MLS teams it is not the most efficient way to use those dollars to build the best possible team. So if the league doesn’t have DPs (but is still able to spend what they would have with DPs, which is a big if) then they might be more competitive in Voyageurs Cup and CCL (if/when any CPL teams get in the CCL). Being competitive in those competitions would be the ultimate way to gain legitimacy.

[Ansem]

3 hours ago, matty said:

Can you stop with the anti-anything-remotely-MLS stuff. Not everything about the MLS model is bad. DPs can help bring in eyeballs and image wise and you know that's true.

First of all, what is your problem? 

Second is that CPL would next to never win a bidding war on the type of players you're talking about. Any big name would be chased by MLS. Think about it before losing your shit and accusing me of anti-MLS.

They are our neighbours with a head start and teams in our country. You're delusional if you think CPL will outbid MLS or that these players will take a pay cut for CPL. 

It looks bad optically and we can't compete. So best for CPL to actually relax the salary cap and go after quality players that aren't stars but will bring the league the quality of needs without trying to copy MLS and being outmatched at every corners. It just looks bad overall and it's no accident CPL are trying to be so damn different

 

Edited January 12, 2018 by Ansem
Remove cursing, I calm down

[matty]

21 minutes ago, Ansem said:

First of all, what is your problem? 

No real problem just sick of your constant hate on for everything from MLS. Look I agree with 90% of what you say but there are things that MLS has that can be adopted because there are good ideas.

28 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Second is that CPL would next to never win a bidding war on the type of players you're talking about. Any big name would be chased by MLS. Think about it before losing your shit and accusing me of anti-MLS.

They are our neighbours with a head start and teams in our country. You're delusional if you think CPL will outbid MLS or that these players will take a pay cut for CPL. 

It looks bad optically and we can't compete. So best for CPL to actually relax the salary cap and go after quality players that aren't stars but will bring the league the quality of needs without trying to copy MLS and being outmatched at every corners. It just looks bad overall and it's no accident CPL are trying to be so damn different

I was saying go after a Giovinco, I was saying go after Cheyrou. Go after solid players from good league who maybe are not big names but can bring a level of seriousness to the league for both casual and even hardcore fans. There's also a good number of these players, MLS is signing fewer of the 33+ crowd very and a lot that move to MLS right now are being paid between $175-300k USD, which are amounts I do think the CPL may be willing to pay. I largely think (we again) agree here on the type of player but we differ on how these players should be signed. (I do think designated roster slots for a handful of players, including some for CanMNT players, to get several hundred thousand off hurting your cap is fine and will prevent overpaying)

[Ansem]

7 minutes ago, matty said:

No real problem just sick of your constant hate on for everything from MLS. Look I agree with 90% of what you say but there are things that MLS has that can be adopted because there are good ideas.

So disagreeing with having a DP rule is now branded as hate? Open a fn dictionary on the word hate

8 minutes ago, matty said:

I was saying go after a Giovinco, I was saying go after Cheyrou. Go after solid players from good league who maybe are not big names but can bring a level of seriousness to the league for both casual and even hardcore fans. There's also a good number of these players, MLS is signing fewer of the 33+ crowd very and a lot that move to MLS right now are being paid between $175-300k USD, which are amounts I do think the CPL may be willing to pay. I largely think (we again) agree here on the type of player but we differ on how these players should be signed. (I do think designated roster slots for a handful of players, including some for CanMNT players, to get several hundred thousand off hurting your cap is fine and will prevent overpaying)

Again, why is having a relaxed salary cap a bad thing or hate. DP contributed to the MASSIVE salary disparity in MLS which is WELL documented by even US medias, but, yeah... it's hate for now wishing to see that in CPL, right? 

[Bison44]

I dont mind MLS, dont care if we copy them...IF its a good idea.  The 30*plus European star coming in for bags of money is a terrible idea. Some guys can still play but to bring in a Lampard/Gerrard so they can play their last season here before retiring makes us look like clowns! MLS even wants to get away from that stigma and its not something I want our new clubs to do..ie blow millions so some big name can have a cup of coffee in Hamilton/Halifax and head back over the pond.  

[matty]

19 minutes ago, Ansem said:

So disagreeing with having a DP rule is now branded as hate? Open a fn dictionary on the word hate

You have a history of dismissing things MLS does being used in CPL.

19 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Again, why is having a relaxed salary cap a bad thing or hate. DP contributed to the MASSIVE salary disparity in MLS which is WELL documented by even US medias, but, yeah... it's hate for now wishing to see that in CPL, right? 

The DP style of MLS is wonky but the principle idea isn't. Playing someone $300k while an entry level guy makes $30k isn't the same as $7m to $50k. Both a higher cap and MLS playfullness but right now we have a better understanding of what certain players make when they come over so I don't see the over playing happening there as much as it could in giving $30K guys $45k to make you look more competitive.

13 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I dont mind MLS, dont care if we copy them...IF its a good idea.  The 30*plus European star coming in for bags of money is a terrible idea. Some guys can still play but to bring in a Lampard/Gerrard so they can play their last season here before retiring makes us look like clowns! MLS even wants to get away from that stigma and its not something I want our new clubs to do..ie blow millions so some big name can have a cup of coffee in Hamilton/Halifax and head back over the pond.  

Dude way to miss the point. I never have said sign a million dollar man or a big name star. Like you've said some of these guy still have it, those should be the targets especially those that are not going to wreck the league. Also to defend Lampard/Gerrard for a second, their MLS kits sold like hot cakes for LAG and NYCFC. Yes there are "optical" issues but there are advantages too. MLS has matured to the spot that it's time for them to move away. CPL hasn't even started.

Edited January 12, 2018 by matty

[Bison44]

28 minutes ago, matty said:

No real problem just sick of your constant hate on for everything from MLS. Look I agree with 90% of what you say but there are things that MLS has that can be adopted because there are good ideas.

I was saying go after a Giovinco, I was saying go after Cheyrou. Go after solid players from good league who maybe are not big names but can bring a level of seriousness to the league for both casual and even hardcore fans. There's also a good number of these players, MLS is signing fewer of the 33+ crowd very and a lot that move to MLS right now are being paid between $175-300k USD, which are amounts I do think the CPL may be willing to pay. I largely think (we again) agree here on the type of player but we differ on how these players should be signed. (I do think designated roster slots for a handful of players, including some for CanMNT players, to get several hundred thousand off hurting your cap is fine and will prevent overpaying)

Not missing the point, obviously we cant bring in guys like Lampard/Gerrard, but its the same idea.  We would bring in what you said, less talented guys with smaller names in their mid 30's, still good players etc.  Less bang, less bucks but still going to be a dude that retires in a year or two.  So CPL can be the shitty retirement league in north america where the unloved cheaper older players are abused before retiring.  I say skip the step of doing that...go the other way... keep the league young

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, matty said:

You have a history of dismissing things MLS does being used in CPL.

I have an opinion on an opinion board... sue me

17 minutes ago, matty said:

Dude way to miss the point. I never have said sign a million dollar man or a big name star. Like you've said some of these guy still have it, those should be the targets especially those that are not going to wreck the league. Also to defend Lampard/Gerrard for a second, their MLS kits sold like hot cakes for LAG and NYCFC. Yes there are "optical" issues but there are advantages too. MLS has matured to the spot that it's time for them to move away. CPL hasn't even started.

You missed mine.I said DP wasn't necessary. I said might as well raise the salary cap so we could sign good players who could sell merchandise just as well and avoid that salary disparity .

Not even worth going into why they introduced DP to draw interest to their league that nobody wanted to watch or cared for before Beckham. Whatever... your argument for DP in CPL is weak and you haven't demonstrated why "DP rules" would be such a bigger draw than just relaxing the salary cap allowing teams to go after pricier talents. Your argument is just to imitate for the sake of imitating.

 

Edited January 12, 2018 by Ansem

[matty]

22 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I have an opinion on an opinion board... sue me

I shall.....meh

22 minutes ago, Ansem said:

You missed mine.I said DP wasn't necessary. I said might as well raise the salary cap so we could sign good players who could sell merchandise just as well and avoid that salary disparity .

Not even worth going into why they introduced DP to draw interest to their league that nobody wanted to watch or cared for before Beckham. Whatever... your argument for DP in CPL is weak and you haven't demonstrated why "DP rules" would be such a bigger draw than just relaxing the salary cap allowing teams to go after pricier talents. Your argument is just to imitate for the sake of imitating.

 

Right here you display nothing but ignorance. Like seriously, I'm not talking about using it for drawing powers but using it to prevent wrongfully inflating the value of players because you have cap space. Both methods have flaws but that one is very big.

Edited January 12, 2018 by matty

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, matty said:

Right here you display nothing but ignorance. Like seriously, I'm not talking about using it for drawing powers but using it to prevent wrongfully inflating the value of players because you have cap space. Both methods have flaws but that one is very big.

go on, explain further. You're delusional if you think that the DP status isn't used to pay has been or past their prime players

[matty]

7 minutes ago, Ansem said:

go on, explain further. You're delusional if you think that the DP status isn't used to pay has been or past their prime players

I'm not saying it isn't. Where have I said it is used to sign in their prime talents? I've said it's used to sign decent talent that can be used for image purposes and have even addressed that a league can and should evolve out of using it on older players (like the MLS has started to do). 

[Ansem]

This guy needs to be in CPL. He could be a star in the league.

Jordan Hamilton

https://www.wakingthered.com/toronto-fc/2018/1/11/16874454/the-waking-the-red-wtr-top-20-no-18-jordan-hamilton-has-plenty-of-scoring-potential-toronto-fc-tfc

[matty]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

This guy needs to be in CPL. He could be a star in the league.

Jordan Hamilton

https://www.wakingthered.com/toronto-fc/2018/1/11/16874454/the-waking-the-red-wtr-top-20-no-18-jordan-hamilton-has-plenty-of-scoring-potential-toronto-fc-tfc

would love to see him prove tfc wrong with a solid showing in cpl if he comes into the league.

[Complete Homer]

2 hours ago, matty said:

would love to see him prove tfc wrong with a solid showing in cpl if he comes into the league.

Hamilton would be a great statement signing about underutilized Canadians

Have to be careful with the spin though. Larson did make an insightful comment that CPL can't allow itself to gain the reputation for being an alternative destination for players who couldn't hack it in MLS. 

[matty]

5 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Hamilton would be a great statement signing about underutilized Canadians

Have to be careful with the spin though. Larson did make an insightful comment that CPL can't allow itself to gain the reputation for being an alternative destination for players who couldn't hack it in MLS. 

Definitely can't sign every castoff or academy misfit. Off the bat I get that they'll need to build a domestic pool, so you could forgive them for signing some guys, but they definitely to be selective.

Regarding Hamilton, it would be really sweet if he came in had like 10 to 15 seasons for 2 years, got back on the national team and then signed with a MLS team not based in Canada and then had a 10~ goal season, to show what TFC missed out on.

[dyslexic nam]

32 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Hamilton would be a great statement signing about underutilized Canadians

Have to be careful with the spin though. Larson did make an insightful comment that CPL can't allow itself to gain the reputation for being an alternative destination for players who couldn't hack it in MLS. 

As much as I get the optics issue, signing Canadian guys who can't quite make an MLS first team isn't something I think CPL can or should avoid.  They represent a high caliber of player, they are fringe Canadian players who would get valuable playing time (and insofar as CPL isn't a youth development league, that will be a key objective), and let's be honest - most people will either know that CPL wont be on par with MLS at the outset (informed fans) or won't be so "in the weeds" that they will be judging their local team on the basis of signings like that (uninformed fans drawn by the gameday experience).  

In short, I think those guys are precisely who will (and should) play in the league - especially at the outset when the challenge of populating decent squads will be substantial.

[toontownman]

It has to build from somewhere. We won't be attracting the same players at the start as the MLS does now. 

If we are sat 10 years into the leagues existence still just attracting the same level of player and seeing no improvement of quality it's a problem but still not the end. 

[matty]

8 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

As much as I get the optics issue, signing Canadian guys who can't quite make an MLS first team isn't something I think CPL can or should avoid.  They represent a high caliber of player, they are fringe Canadian players who would get valuable playing time (and insofar as CPL isn't a youth development league, that will be a key objective), and let's be honest - most people will either know that CPL wont be on par with MLS at the outset (informed fans) or won't be so "in the weeds" that they will be judging their local team on the basis of signings like that (uninformed fans drawn by the gameday experience).  

In short, I think those guys are precisely who will (and should) play in the league - especially at the outset when the challenge of populating decent squads will be substantial.

Agree mostly but I do feel signing a guy who was cut after 5-10 USL games is a guy who maybe should have to earn their way into the CPL (maybe with a L1O run) especially after the league has built it's main player pool after the first year.

Edited January 12, 2018 by matty