Players you expect to see in the CPL

[Mister215Guy]

The CPL should get Canadians and internationals in their prime. Once they lose competitiveness, have them retire to MLS. Now MLS can become the retirement league for Canada as well.

[toontownman]

Going to be interesting to see how hardline they promote the Canadian element vs. Bringing in one or two marquee type signings per team which they will likely do for promotion and marketing. 

I expect they will be looking at players like Teibert telling him he could be a marquee player a club could build their team around, rather than stay on the fringes in Vancouver.  There are few players the league could realistically get that would be stand out Canadian player in the world game, big enough to be a crowd pulling attraction.

The league probably wants all those marquee players to be Canadian but clubs might have another idea to get bums on seats. 

[matty]

2 hours ago, toontownman said:

Going to be interesting to see how hardline they promote the Canadian element vs. Bringing in one or two marquee type signings per team which they will likely do for promotion and marketing. 

I expect they will be looking at players like Teibert telling him he could be a marquee player a club could build their team around, rather than stay on the fringes in Vancouver.  There are few players the league could realistically get that would be stand out Canadian player in the world game, big enough to be a crowd pulling attraction.

The league probably wants all those marquee players to be Canadian but clubs might have another idea to get bums on seats. 

They'll do both. They will play up the Canadian element heavily while importing a few stars. Ads will likely feature say an Italian and Brit (both with national team caps and big club histories) surrounded by their Canadian teammates or something like that and likely using one of the marquee players along side a Canadian or two to do press and community outreach. In a way this type of approach could elevate the Canadian talent in the eyes of casual fans.

Edited November 25, 2016 by matty

[Ansem]

 

[Ansem]

That's Portugal division 2. We got talent here!

[Gopherbashi]

12 hours ago, Ansem said:

That's Portugal division 2. We got talent here!

If this is the case, it's even more impressive because Sanjaxx is shit in our D3.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The thing to check on stuff like this is if he is actually on the senior roster or whether he is with a youth team:

http://www.fcfamalicao.pt/fcfamalicao/seniores/plantel-senior.html

There is a Vilaca listed, but not sure it's the same guy.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

On 2016/11/25 at 2:19 AM, Mister215Guy said:

The CPL should get Canadians and internationals in their prime. Once they lose competitiveness, have them retire to MLS. Now MLS can become the retirement league for Canada as well.

If Frank Stronach decides to leave Belinda out of his will and leaves all his money to a fund for the promotion of domestic Canadian pro soccer then maybe that sort of scenario becomes possible. Have you guys not been told to temper your expectations a bit? A CPL can happen but even a $1.5 million player budget might need to be scaled back a bit to fit what the potential investors that are out there are willing to do with their hard earned cash and the markets that are most readily available can actually sustain.

Edited November 26, 2016 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Alex D]

53 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

 Have you guys not been told to temper your expectations a bit? 

We have, by you. You keep telling us that this is clearly just going to be a semi pro league doomed to fail based on nothing but the fact that you watched the CSL in the 90's. 

You know nothing more about this league than anyone else in this forum. Let this thing happen in its own time and stop trying to boss your negative assumptions. 

[baulderdash77]

Hey BBTB:  Have you ever broken down how a $1.5m salary cap breaks down to a 24 player roster?

Here's a crack at it:

Players 1-3  150k each.  450k  

Players 4-11 75k each 525k

Players 12-16 50k each 200k  

Players 17-24 40k each 280k

That's 1,455k  in total so it's probably a rough approximation of the salary structure.

If we compared that to some MLS teams it's not that far away.  it's probably close to MLS in 2007 and certainly not a semi pro league.  There would be players looking for those top 11 spots for sure. 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by baulderdash77

[baulderdash77]

By the way 260/520 MLS players (accounting for exchange rates) would fit into this salary structure.  

So the level of the league would overlap the bottom half of each MLS teams roster from day 1.  It would also be the cream of the USL and NASL salary crop as well.  

Just thinking of it from a practical perspective, at least from day 1.

Each team would probably sign about 8-9 Canadian players from USL,NASL and L1O,PQSL for the league minimum and 3-4 Canadians abroad or from the bottom of MLS rosters for the mid to top of the rosters.

The rest of the roster spots would probably come from Latin American teams and better players  from NASL and USL teams.

Realistically  each team would probably have something like 4 Canadian starters and maybe 2 subs with the balance of the playing time being international.  A good chunk of the Canadian players would probably  be filling out the bottom of the roster making the league min.

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by baulderdash77

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

$1.5 million puts the break even well beyond what Edmonton and Ottawa have been achieving in terms of paid attendance. That's fine if investors are cool with risking losing $2 million a year for the first few seasons and be patient waiting for the league to gain traction, but it remains to be seen whether enough groups like that are out there to put an entire league together. Hope there are, strongly suspect there aren't. Beyond that bear in mind what I responded to was the suggestion that the target should be "Canadians and internationals in their prime. Once they lose competitiveness, have them retire to MLS." That to me suggsted a salary cap well in excess of that of MLS, which would mean over $CAD 5 million.

[baulderdash77]

I think you got trolled by Mister215Guy  there.  

[MtlMario]

28 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

$1.5 million puts the break even well beyond what Edmonton and Ottawa have been achieving in terms of paid attendance. That's fine if investors are cool with risking losing $2 million a year for the first few seasons and be patient waiting for the league to gain traction, but it remains to be seen whether enough groups like that are out there to put an entire league together. Hope there are, strongly suspect there aren't. Beyond that bear in mind what I responded to was the suggestion that the target should be "Canadians and internationals in their prime. Once they lose competitiveness, have them retire to MLS." That to me suggsted a salary cap well in excess of that of MLS, which would mean over $CAD 5 million.

I would bet that you never bought a lottery ticket of any kind in your life.

[Alex D]

3 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

I would bet that you never bought a lottery ticket of any kind in your life.

Or smiled. 

[Complete Homer]

32 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

$1.5 million puts the break even well beyond what Edmonton and Ottawa have been achieving in terms of paid attendance. That's fine if investors are cool with risking losing $2 million a year for the first few seasons and be patient waiting for the league to gain traction, but it remains to be seen whether enough groups like that are out there to put an entire league together. Hope there are, strongly suspect there aren't. Beyond that bear in mind what I responded to was the suggestion that the target should be "Canadians and internationals in their prime. Once they lose competitiveness, have them retire to MLS." That to me suggsted a salary cap well in excess of that of MLS, which would mean over $CAD 5 million.

Bear in mind, Edmonton does not have the luxury of thinking long term. The Faths are well off by our measures, but in the world of sports franchises, they are a shoestring operation. They can't sink large amounts of money into marketing, the stadium is poor, and ticket prices are high given the product, all because they have to keep the goal of minimizing losses to break even ASAP. 

The rhetoric from Young and Montagliani, starting way back in 2013, was all about finding owners willing and able to lose significant money on this for years. That's what's needed to grow fanbases beyond the dedicated hardcores. I think the league leadership understands that, Young himself took a dying TiCats franchise and turned it into a perpetual sellout by taking significant long term losses instead of attempting to minimize losses. 

Regarding MisterGuy's comments about surpassing MLS is not really reflective of the conversation, not sure if he's a troll or just deluded 

Back to the actual topic, I think Baulderdash77 is pretty spot on, but I'd add a few caveats. First, with the exchange rate, I don't think the salaries will stack up quite as favourably against MLS. Second, especially early on, there will be skepticism of the league and I think we will have to overpay for talent. But overall I think your assessment of how the money will shake out is accurate for the teams that choose to spend to the cap. 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Complete Homer

[baulderdash77]

He exchange rate is a bit of a killer right now.  150k CAD is about 110K US and 75 CAD is about 55 US.

So Marque players are guys in the range of Andres Romero, Tesho Akindele, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Marco Delgado, Charlie Davies.  That level of player.

The "solid starter" level of CanPL players will be guys like Nick Hagglund, Karl Ouimette, Nate Sturgis , Marco Pappa, Mauro Rosales (yes he makes 55 US), Fraser Aird.  That type of level of player. 

So there are going to be some quality level of players in the league that can play entertaining and gate worthyou levels of play.

 

[Complete Homer]

45 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

He exchange rate is a bit of a killer right now.  150k CAD is about 110K US and 75 CAD is about 55 US.

So Marque players are guys in the range of Andres Romero, Tesho Akindele, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Marco Delgado, Charlie Davies.  That level of player.

The "solid starter" level of CanPL players will be guys like Nick Hagglund, Karl Ouimette, Nate Sturgis , Marco Pappa, Mauro Rosales (yes he makes 55 US), Fraser Aird.  That type of level of player. 

So there are going to be some quality level of players in the league that can play entertaining and gate worthyou levels of play.

 

That sounds pretty bang on. 

I said this elsewhere, NASL today is not far off of MLS circa 2007. If anyone gives a lazy excuse about the quality being unsatisfactory, ask them is they supported TFC in 2007. I really doubt the quality will be hugely different from MLS back then. 

[Ansem]

Being able to pay players in Canadian dollars is also a huge thing

[Alex D]

30 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Being able to pay players in Canadian dollars is also a huge thing

At the very least it gives the clubs some stability in budgeting. I just hope it doesn't scare anyone off. 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Alex D

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Alex D said:

At the very least it gives the clubs some stability in budgeting. I just hope it doesn't scare anyone off. 

It won't.  the thing about playing in a US-Canada league means that everyone expects to be paid in US dollars.

In an all Canadian league, the cost of living in Canada is taken into account so so being paid in Canadian dollars in the range we're talking about is very attractive. 

Canadian players coming off USL and D3 Canada will be overjoyed at a 45k+ salary especially out of Toronto.

Talented internationals from the southern hemisphere will like playing in Canada with our excellent standard of living plus salaries over $60k+.

Dps will require extensive scouting but you can find young kids in D2 South American Division who have the potential to surpass guys like Piatti for $200k+. I've been on the southern hemisphere and lots of them would jump at an opportunity such as this.

CPL will be very different from MLS. However, I believe with a lower salary cap than MLS, we can be in the same range of competition via great scouting.

Costa Rican league would have a salary cap lower than CPL, yet, in CCL they are way more competitive than MLS teams outside of Canadian Clubs.

If CPL doesn't fall into the MLS trap of seeking DPs past their prime asking for insane amount of money paralyzing CPL teams, then CPL will forever be an inferior product than MLS.

If we try to replicate MLS, we'll fail. If we find out own way and bet on younger international talents & DP in their prime, best available Canadian talent available and CPL team actually spend on top tier support staff available  (scouts, coaches and managers) then CPL could surprise all of us 

 

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

If CPL doesn't fall into the MLS trap of seeking DPs past their prime asking for insane amount of money paralyzing CPL teams, then CPL will forever be an inferior product than MLS.

If we try to replicate MLS, we'll fail. If we find out own way and bet on younger international talents & DP in their prime, best available Canadian talent available and CPL team actually spend on top tier support staff available  (scouts, coaches and managers) then CPL could surprise all of us 

 

If there is a DP rule, which we should remember is a massive "if" at this point (even Rollins said that it has only been floated as a possibility), I think past-the-prime guys is still a good way to go at least part of the time. As we've seen in MLS, a lot of people roll their eyes, but it does actually increase the number of butts in seats. 

That said, we have no idea how much beyond that cap any DP signings would actually be. If they are looking at a 400k "DP", then yes, better to go to south america than gun for 41 year old Paul Dickov types

Edited November 26, 2016 by Complete Homer

[Dr.Dre]

I don't know if a rule that increase the salary of an old 'DPs' agaisnt the cap would be possible to limit the amount of old 'DPs'.

And It would be nice if the league promoted CONCACAF. I don't know if a rule that limit player from outside CONCACAF region would work too.

 

[matty]

9 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

He exchange rate is a bit of a killer right now.  150k CAD is about 110K US and 75 CAD is about 55 US.

So Marque players are guys in the range of Andres Romero, Tesho Akindele, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Marco Delgado, Charlie Davies.  That level of player.

Can we please stop using "marque players" for guys that are not really "marque players". A "marque player" is a DP......I do expect Tesho to be in CPL

Also anyone saying "NO OLD DPs!" please note that old DPs that have an amazing CV, with national team caps and big clubs on it, will do more to help bring in fans during the early days than a young up and comer. As time goes by the type of DPs we would see would change.

Edited November 27, 2016 by matty

[Gopherbashi]

I'm honestly less concerned about a $1.5m salary cap, and more concerned about a salary floor - something I've seen nothing about so far.  It's nice to say that the goal is $1.5m on player salaries - but if that's the goal - then the reality will be somewhat lower, and it will be important to place a minimum on salary expenditures to maintain the quality that this league is gunning for.

Also concerned about the TV aspect, because I recall seeing a tweet from Rossi suggesting that it may not happen (and he didn't think it was important).  I don't expect a lot of direct revenue from a TV deal, but it's hella important in terms of legitimacy and putting butts in seats.