Women U20 World Cup Papua New Guinea 2016

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 hour ago, 67soccer said:

wow , why is everyone so upset , we are on track for another medal in 2019 ! Just ask Joe 

I'm not the crying stage mother, I could care less that we don't win age level tournaments as long as we have players to keep renewing the supply of the big team.

Your post about Herdman was moronic and so is whatever agenda you're pursuing and whatever you're hiding and not telling us.  Some of us have been around long enough that we know a snowjob when we see it, and you're it.  

[67soccer]

11 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

I'm not the crying stage mother, I could care less that we don't win age level tournaments as long as we have players to keep renewing the supply of the big team.

Your post about Herdman was moronic and so is whatever agenda you're pursuing and whatever you're hiding and not telling us.  Some of us have been around long enough that we know a snowjob when we see it, and you're it.  

As heard a few weeks back " when some take the low road , then take the high road " that i will and not bother getting in the same class and name calling as you have decided .My apologizes if I dont share the same opinion of Herdman as you do though ,don"t like my opinion your choice , don't like my suggestions , your choice . Though i don't believe i came on here name calling . 

Well i will leave you Joe with one thing i have NO AGENDA , way past this stage in my kids career , though seems nothing has changed from 15 years back within the CSA  except that we are now looking at other countries pass us by in development and this U20 and the recent U17 have shown  exactly that .

So Joe who exactly is to take responsibility in your wisdom and careful as your Agenda is starting to show its true colors .

 

 

[paul-collins]

19 hours ago, footyfan said:

Canada Soccer had a 20 year head-start in the marathon of female soccer development, and it has been already passed by countries who came very, very late to the party. 

says the poster with 3 posts to their name

[paul-collins]

16 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Why is no one interested that we are so poorly prepared for this tournament. 

Take the worst play today, their third goal. We had shown nothing in terms of getting one back vs. a rather mediocre Nigeria team. We could not play out, lord knows why we even try, and we could not play long, since we played wrongly, stupid wrong long ball, never into space or seeking out diagonals, flat and predictable. We had no way at all to advance the ball into a position we could get our second goal from. And then our keeper decided to do something she does not know how to do, she is not trained to do, and it seems, shamefully, that our coaches are asking her to do. 

The preparation here is the worst I have ever seen for a Canada women's team, it is frankly disgraceful. And I don't blame the players, I blame the coaching staff who look they are doing charity work for the underprivileged, and the CSA, for letting them get away with that bs. 

I mean, it was a hard group, terrible, like the u-17 group, I know getting through was always going to be tough. But we are one of those teams in women that has always been feared, no one thinks it is going to be easy vs. Canada. We are respected at least. But today, face it, Nigeria was persistent and all, but we were softer, way softer, than we have ever seen.

 

14 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

And then watching his delirious celebration on our goal, fair enough, good to score. It was like he'd won the World Cup, silly guy. I think his euphoria was in inverse relationship to his faith in the team.

Is there any reason we have so many players who are this young, is it a problem of getting NCAA to release players or something? Did we deliberately decide to throw this tournament away?

To the come-latelys who want to criticize the performance and selection in this tournament, take note:  This is how you do it.

[Rheo]

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Is there any reason we have so many players who are this young, is it a problem of getting NCAA to release players or something? Did we deliberately decide to throw this tournament away?

Maybe they didn't want to go.  Maybe they think their education is more important then this tourny (which I side with the player if they feel that way)  

No offence to anyone who feels strongly about this but as I said earlier, in my opinion people are overreacting to this way too much.  They crapped the bed, it sucks but it's not the end of the world.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Rheo said:

Maybe they didn't want to go.  Maybe they think their education is more important then this tourny (which I side with the player if they feel that way)  

No offence to anyone who feels strongly about this but as I said earlier, in my opinion people are overreacting to this way too much.  They crapped the bed, it sucks but it's not the end of the world.  

I heard an announcer say Venezuela left Castellanos with her university, think she's in Florida, I think it is asking a lot for a person studying to skip 2.5 months worth.  And Venezuela is hurting this tournament.

Have to remember, however ,that the Spain team are all first division players, and while the league is near-pro only, more than semi-pro, they still mean losses to those clubs. 

[footyfan]

3 hours ago, paul-collins said:

says the poster with 3 posts to their name

Riiiiight. Because only those who contribute to online forums are invested in Canadian soccer. Give your head a shake.

 

[red card]

Winning or losing at the youth level doesn't fully translate to winning at the senior team level. 

So my concern is that we're not seeing Herdman's unified system of play from this team - instead they're all over the place while the u17 team did at least play Canada's way.

Second, for the 2 players already capped for the senior team, it does show for now that Rose needs good quality players around here as she isn't a game changer by herself. Carle hasn't shown much for either the senior or youth teams. 

For the others, there wasn't much potential talent on display. Being younger than most of the players on other teams doesn't help since it is hard to discern if age is the issue for the performance gap. If these players are still better than the crop of 19-20 year olds, then it says we lost a cycle of players.

 

[ray]

4 hours ago, paul-collins said:

says the poster with 3 posts to their name

Doesn't his point have some validity?  Why is number posts is relevant?

[Joe MacCarthy]

7 hours ago, 67soccer said:

As heard a few weeks back " when some take the low road , then take the high road " that i will and not bother getting in the same class and name calling as you have decided .My apologizes if I dont share the same opinion of Herdman as you do though ,don"t like my opinion your choice , don't like my suggestions , your choice . Though i don't believe i came on here name calling . 

Well i will leave you Joe with one thing i have NO AGENDA , way past this stage in my kids career , though seems nothing has changed from 15 years back within the CSA  except that we are now looking at other countries pass us by in development and this U20 and the recent U17 have shown  exactly that .

So Joe who exactly is to take responsibility in your wisdom and careful as your Agenda is starting to show its true colors .

Always fun to see the bitter parent of the kid who couldn't make the grade, a long time Vs tradition. Makes me wonder if they shot their mouth off to a coach and by being a general pain in the ass hurt their kid somewhere along the line, just conjecture.

Let's take a look at the record shall we.  Herdman inherits mentally bruised team and gets them to punch above their weight to an Olympic medal.  Building upon that success he again guides them to another Olympic medal deservedly defeating teams ranked higher and team is now ranked fourth in the world.  Herdman has them playing a more skilled and successful style of play while bringing in younger players because of a talent age group gap between the veterans and youngsters which he began a crash program to try and overcome.

Now let's look at a few of your greatest hits.

"Never been and never will be a Herdman Fan . The man is a con and the CSA is buying it . Nothing accomplished under his helm except a bunch of PR BS rolling from his mouth . Lets hope by September he is unemployed ! for the sake of future generations

That also goes for Herdman , the program has regressed since Herdman has taken over and Coach B has followed suit"

 

You know we could use another "con man" like him for the men's team.

Forget the condescending "high road" garbage, you're throwing the shit just like me and you seem to think everyone here is to clueless not to know it.

You'll be happy to know that there has been a long running club of members here at the Vs.  There used to be about five but it seems to have decreased to about two and you'll make three.  The good ol CSA Legion of Doom club for the bitter and neglected.  Ask one of the long time members who keeps liking your bitter posts.  Your membership will be assured.

[Rheo]

Never a dull moment on this board

[67soccer]

3 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

 Your membership will be assured.

No need as will leave you alone in the sandbox to play by yourself ........ just can't be bothered ....

[Joe MacCarthy]

Ah yes, the old "I'm above it" gambit, when you can't defend the argument or your posted inanities.  Well played!

[1996]

I think Herdman has done a great job with the senior team I really can't say how much of the blame for the bad performances at the U17 and U 20 you can really put on him so putting any blame on him is not really fair in my eyes. It's just too bad that Canada which has so many more girls playing soccer than most of these other countries,  where in some cases it's still not that easy in these other countries that have done better than us at these recent youth World Cups for girls to play soccer, yet they have gotten results where we have struggled. With Canada's infrastructure, organization and just our acceptance that girls playing sports is just as natural as boys playing where opotunities for girls to play sports is more or less on par with boys playing sports in Canada and in this case soccer,  with all of the above we should at the very least be advancing out of our group play in these youth World Cups and even making a final or even winning should not be out of the question.

[Vic]

" With Canada's infrastructure, organization ..."

That's why we can't compete. Our system is amateur.  And not in the pejorative sense, in the literal.

[The Ref]

I am not sure whether Worthington is acting under the supervision of Herdman.  That being the case both are to be blamed with Herdman carrying the blunt of the blame.  Our players are not highly skilled like others, but good enough to get better results under proper and competent guidance.  Did anyone see Worthington yesterday literally scratching his head? obviously the guy doesn't know what to do.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I can accept that in certain tournaments you may opt to compete less to build better, but it has to be well chosen. Like PanAmerican games. I can also accept that if a coaching staff sees there is a gap (which I find hard to believe) then you make a bold move to put in younger players to gain experience for the next cycle.

I am also aware that sometimes the CSA seems unable to focus on more than one thing at a time successfully, as if resources were better dedicated to the u-17s, don't know. Because even though the result is the same, not getting through the group, the play was very different.

Given who we are in women's soccer, I think we have to compete always. Lack of attention to details is no excuse, and even more when we have generated income from the WWC and should not have that as an excuse.

As I have admitted, we were in a tough group. Watching Spain, I think they were sloppy the last two matches, even vs. Japan winning, and vs. Nigeria losing, and found they lacked crispness and good decision making. Perhaps the sheer difficulty of rivals has been a factor, the pace, and the heat too. This group was tough, but only Canada let the other teams play relatively easily. And since when do we do that? 

[Joe MacCarthy]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I can accept that in certain tournaments you may opt to compete less to build better, but it has to be well chosen. Like PanAmerican games. I can also accept that if a coaching staff sees there is a gap (which I find hard to believe) then you make a bold move to put in younger players to gain experience for the next cycle.

Canada Soccer takes away valuable lessons from Papua New Guinea 2016
canadasoccer.com 20 November 2016

Canada Soccer’s development pathway appears secure as the U-20 Women’s National Team wrapped up the FIFA U-20 Women’s World Cup Papua New Guinea 2016. Having chosen to field a young team, with an average starting lineup age of 17.3, Canada has tested its talent, and is buoyed by the prospects coming through the Excel System.

While Canada ended its tournament with a 5-0 final group match loss to Japan, the team boasted some impressive stats that suggest the future is bright indeed. Six of the starting lineup, including the goalkeeper, featured for Canada’s U-17 team at the FIFA U-17 Women’s World Cup, and seven members of the squad can return for the next cycle in 2018. Emma Regan, a starting fullback in all three of Canada’s matches, is eligible to return to this tournament twice more.

“Our goal going into Papua New Guinea was to test our players against strong teams, and we got that playing against Spain, Nigeria and Japan; and to ensure key players in our EXCEL System that are tracking towards our National Women’s Team gained experience against various styles of international football,” said Daniel Worthington, Canada Soccer U-20 Women’s Coach and Women’s U-23 EXCEL Program Director. “Playing three confederation champions, in the heat of Papua New Guinea, tested these players and gave us an opportunity to assess how they responded to various conditions and styles of play.”

The timing of the FIFA U-20 Women’s World Cup Papua New Guinea 2016 comes at an ideal time for Canada as the Women’s National Team enters into a new four-year cycle, which will see some of the fresh faces of the U-20 National Team establish themselves within the senior squad, but also come back for another FIFA U-20 Women’s World Cup in two years.

“The current player funnel for the Women’s National Team is very solid, and we are excited to see these players continue to develop through our Excel System,” said Worthington. “Players like Carle, Rose, and Stratigakis, can come back to this tournament again in two years, and our young full-back Emma Regan can return twice! This bodes well for the National Women’s Team in the future as our other youth players, will be well-developed internationals before they reach the senior ranks.”

Canada Soccer’s Excel System, designed by Women's Excel Programme Director and Women’s National Team Head Coach John Herdman, has already produced eight Women’s National Team players, and Olympic bronze medalists, in Kadeisha Buchanan, Ashley Lawrence, Jessie Fleming, Rebecca Quinn, Janine Beckie, Shelina Zadorsky, Deanne Rose, and Gabrielle Carle, three of whom are still eligible for youth competition.

“Canada Soccer’s Excel philosophy is not geared towards only winning tournaments, but rather towards developing individual players to meet the future needs of Canada’s Women’s National Team,” said Herdman. “The program has proven successful in developing many of our current bronze medalists, and we see great things coming from the next group. It’s an approach that develops players by design to meet future positional openings as the team senior team evolves.”

Over the last four years the quality of experience for young, talented, Canadian female players has improved, inspiring them to reach greater heights, while at the same time providing them with the tools to meet the demands and rigors of the ever improving international women’s game. Attracting and helping to retain more talented players to soccer, the Excel Program is widening and strengthening the talent base in Canada and creating more opportunities for Canada to excel in future Olympics and FIFA Women’s World Cups.

Canada Soccer is looking forward to an exciting four-year period as Canada’s Women’s National Team seeks to rise from fourth place to first in FIFA’s World Rankings. The exceptional, yet attainable, goal was set for Canada by Herdman after Canada repeated its bronze medal finish at the Rio 2016 Olympics.

“The Excel System is key to our goal of putting Canada on top of the podium, not just on it,” said Herdman. “Work already completed has provided the Women’s National Team with a constant flow of young players, in all positions, with the requisite physical, technical, mental and emotional qualities required to achieve consistent podium performances, and it’s on this foundation that we are looking to further unite and strengthen the talent pathways, programs and systems to propel elite women’s soccer towards the number one goal.”

Canada Soccer Women’s National EXCEL Program, presented by Bell, brings together the best with the best at the national youth level. Operating across the U-14 to U-17 and U-18 to U-23 age groups, the program is designed to deliver an aligned talent structure and system that progresses more top players to Canada’s Women’s National Team.

[rob.notenboom]

You know, I read that article and it came across as one part true and one part spin. Admittedly this is just my take, but young team or not, I expected a different tone out of the CSA's communication after these results.

[The Ref]

The CSA says "Canada Soccer takes away valuable lessons from Papua New Guinea 2016" I for one would like to know what are these lessons in the eyes of the CSA experts.

[paul-collins]

Yeah, I saw that article too; I also know that Ontario's EXCEL program has been gappy in its implementation.  I know that funding has disappeared for certain teams, (the one I had followed most closely was the 2001 cohort) so I have to wonder just how much they can really toot their own horn on this tournament.

Maybe the funding was allocated to this 1998/1999 cohort instead?  I've not followed the full program across the province (web info is spotty at best) so can't say.

[paul-collins]

On 11/17/2016 at 8:04 PM, Joe MacCarthy said:

Ah yes, the old "I'm above it" gambit, when you can't defend the argument or your posted inanities.  Well played!

Soon to be followed with the "I'm done with this forum" manouever.

[Joe MacCarthy]

13 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

You know, I read that article and it came across as one part true and one part spin. Admittedly this is just my take, but young team or not, I expected a different tone out of the CSA's communication after these results.

I took it the same way you did.

[1996]

This  " Canada Soccer had a 20 year head-start in the marathon of female soccer development, and it has been already passed by countries who came very, very late to the party ", it's very true no matter how many post one has. I agree these age based youth World Cups are very useful win or lose because they give experience to future senior team players no doubt. However, you also enter them to win and do well and you want to get that winning mentality and confidence in future  senior players from these tournaments. It also can show us how we are doing in developing players and coaches as well. Just look at hockey for example if Canada goes into a spell of bad results at say the men's Junior World Championships the Canadian hockey world reacts they don't stay idle they try to find answers maybe implement changes at the grassroots so that in the future better results are achieved at the Junior World Championship.

[red card]

For the CSA to come out with a super long of a press release that quickly, obviously they were working on the spin since match 2.

While they did say pre-tourney, this team was picked for player development, finishing just ahead of PNG on goal difference was not part of the plan. So, the 4th place ranking must have gone to their heads as they overrated these players and/or underrated the opposing players. 

A better view of the situation is from Steve Sandor:

Before the first half of Sunday’s group-stage match between Canada and Japan at the U-20 Women’s World Cup was over, the FIFA international feed commentator had already resorted to coming up with consolatory terms for the team in red.

He talked about Canada’s willingness to keep fighting. He talked about Canada’s “team spirit,” “resolve” and “character.” These are the kind of things a broadcaster falls back on when he or she can’t find anything good to say about the quality of soccer the team is playing.

What we saw was a systemic failure. Teams like Spain and Japan were comfortable on the ball against Canada, while the Canadians played panicked football. There was a lot of hoof-and-hope in the Canadian game. Sure, one could blame the heat in Papua New Guinea, but that was something that affected all the teams. Fact is, best way to beat the heat is to have a lot of the ball; chasing it takes a lot out of you. And, boy, did the Canadians chase.

So, it was nice way of saying that player development trumps results at this level. But, even with that philosophy in mind, it’s hard to find those positives other than thinking, well, this team was thrown in at the deep end.

http://the11.ca/canadas-u20wwc-comes-to-a-not-so-merciful-end/