Samuel Piette

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Soccerpro said:

I've never understood the love for Piette.

He wouldn't be a starter in MLS, to me.

He's just a spot filler for the CMNT because we have no quality.

I think Piette is capable of starting in MLS, though I wouldn't say he'd be a clear cut first choice on any team. 

His ball control is good. His short and long passing is good. His work rate is good. His shooting is good. He can play with both feet. His tackling is good. 

He is a defensive midfielder. So long as he is not playing high up the field I see him as effective. 

An inability to attack as a midfielder aside, what in particular do you not like about his game? What do you consider to be his flaws? Very curious.

Also, I think people are high on him because he is still only 22/23. He was born in the same year as Chapman to put it in perspective. 

 

[harrycoyster]

37 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think Piette is capable of starting in MLS, though I wouldn't say he'd be a clear cut first choice on any team. 

His ball control is good. His short and long passing is good. His work rate is good. His shooting is good. He can play with both feet. His tackling is good. 

He is a defensive midfielder. So long as he is not playing high up the field I see him as effective. 

An inability to attack as a midfielder aside, what in particular do you not like about his game? What do you consider to be his flaws? Very curious.

Also, I think people are high on him because he is still only 22/23. He was born in the same year as Chapman to put it in perspective. 

 

To be a regular starter in MLS at CDM you can't just be proficient at the position. MLS is at a high enough level now that you need to be a well-rounded player AND have one or two great traits (unless you are a fullback; because neither us nor the US can produce competent fullbacks). Look around the league at even the non-DP CDMs. Chara is an elite ball winner, Dax McCarty can step on the ball and a ping a 30 yard pass to a forward's foot, Ring is immense at pushing play to the sidelines, Tyler Adams can close on the ball like a NFL linebacker.

I've never seen Piette show anything "special". He is a solid CDM that doesn't do anything particularly bad, and MLS has a whole lot of those. I follow the Whitecaps, who are one of the weaker teams in the league at CDM. Does Piette play over Tchani or Laba? Heck, he might not be better than Jacobson or Teibert so he'd be somewhere from 3rd to 5th choice on a fairly weak defensive midfield in MLS. Granted, I've never been very high on Piette, but I don't think I'm overly harsh on him.

I'd say that if he found the right situation in MLS he could be a heck of a role player, but the argument for him to start is pretty lackluster.

EDIT: As the title says, it's possible we haven't seen the best of him yet; he's still young. I'd rather him go to a lower table Scandinavia or League One side so that he is a visible, everyday starter.

Edited June 3, 2017 by harrycoyster

[Soccerpro]

Piette is a Teibert. Not strong at anything, decent at most things as a utility guy.

[shermanator]

I honestly couldn't see an MLS club signing Piette. None of the Canadian clubs have a need at CDM, and I don't think he's attractive enough for an American club to want to pick him up as an international. I'd prefer he stay in Europe, and apparently he has offers at higher levels than he played last year, so hopefully he makes a good move this offseason. 

Also we need to remember that at 22 he is still a very young player. If he took the NCAA route he'd probably be in USL right now getting his first few appearances of his career. 120 games at that age is almost unheard of with the current crop of Canadians, even at reserve team levels.

[Obinna]

5 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

To be a regular starter in MLS at CDM you can't just be proficient at the position. MLS is at a high enough level now that you need to be a well-rounded player AND have one or two great traits (unless you are a fullback; because neither us nor the US can produce competent fullbacks). Look around the league at even the non-DP CDMs. Chara is an elite ball winner, Dax McCarty can step on the ball and a ping a 30 yard pass to a forward's foot, Ring is immense at pushing play to the sidelines, Tyler Adams can close on the ball like a NFL linebacker.

I've never seen Piette show anything "special". He is a solid CDM that doesn't do anything particularly bad, and MLS has a whole lot of those. I follow the Whitecaps, who are one of the weaker teams in the league at CDM. Does Piette play over Tchani or Laba? Heck, he might not be better than Jacobson or Teibert so he'd be somewhere from 3rd to 5th choice on a fairly weak defensive midfield in MLS. Granted, I've never been very high on Piette, but I don't think I'm overly harsh on him.

I'd say that if he found the right situation in MLS he could be a heck of a role player, but the argument for him to start is pretty lackluster.

EDIT: As the title says, it's possible we haven't seen the best of him yet; he's still young. I'd rather him go to a lower table Scandinavia or League One side so that he is a visible, everyday starter.

I agree with all of that, which is why I said he wouldn't be a clear cut starter on any MLS team. 

That is different than filling in as a starter if needed. That is what you see with Russell Teibert for example.

Not advocating Piette goes to MLS, I think he should keep working his way up the Spanish ladder. It was a hypothetical as far as I am concerned, as I haven't heard of any rumblings that he's coming back. 

If he was though, and I want to be clear this is a hypothetical, I think he can be a role player in MLS who could fill in as a starter if needed. Why? Because he's a solid CDM who doesn't do anything particularly bad, as you say. MLS has a lot of those already, so there is a precedent for this type of player having value in the league. Given his age and the fact he already has over 30 international caps, i'm sure teams would take a chance on him if he was interested in MLS at this stage. 

[Obinna]

5 hours ago, Soccerpro said:

Piette is a Teibert. Not strong at anything, decent at most things as a utility guy.

I have personally been disappointed in Teibert as of late. Good engine, great technique, but below average pace and strength.

I wouldn't be surprised if Piette goes on to have a more successful career than Teibert. He already has almost double the caps and is 2 years younger. 

[Bison44]

The fact that Piette has so many caps is more to do with our lack of depth than his skill or talent.  How many of his caps were coming in at the 80th min tied or down a goal and Deguzman was gassed.  And all the Voyageurs were screaming put on an attacker!!  

It sure looked like they were grooming him for the CDM spot, based on his potential.  Well, you are 22 now, Deguz is done, Hutch is probably done, You have had a long time in Spain to improve, lets see it come gold cup time.  

[Obinna]

52 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

The fact that Piette has so many caps is more to do with our lack of depth than his skill or talent.  How many of his caps were coming in at the 80th min tied or down a goal and Deguzman was gassed.  And all the Voyageurs were screaming put on an attacker!!  

It sure looked like they were grooming him for the CDM spot, based on his potential.  Well, you are 22 now, Deguz is done, Hutch is probably done, You have had a long time in Spain to improve, lets see it come gold cup time.  

Not really buying it. You need to have skill and talent to see the field.

How is our "lack of depth" relevant by the way? Are you saying he only played because we never had better options? Doesn't that mean he had more skill or talent than the next guy? I don't understand your argument.

Now I do agree that Floro sometimes chose to bring him in games when we needed an attacker, but that's not his fault, is it?

He has nearly double the caps Teibert does and clearly both Hart and Floro rated him more. It will be interesting to see if Zambrano joins them by using him more as well.

Sometimes I think we are sympathetic to Teibert because he plays in MLS and Piette plays at a lower level, but just because you play in a higher league doesn't automatically mean you are a better player. You can sometimes find NASL and USL players who are better than an MLS player, for example.

The more I watch Teibert this season the more I am starting to believe that Piette is in fact the better player. At least there is evidence of that at the international level.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Obinna

[A_Gagne]

9 hours ago, Obinna said:

I think Piette is capable of starting in MLS, though I wouldn't say he'd be a clear cut first choice on any team. 

His ball control is good. His short and long passing is good. His work rate is good. His shooting is good. He can play with both feet. His tackling is good. 

He is a defensive midfielder. So long as he is not playing high up the field I see him as effective. 

An inability to attack as a midfielder aside, what in particular do you not like about his game? What do you consider to be his flaws? Very curious.

Also, I think people are high on him because he is still only 22/23. He was born in the same year as Chapman to put it in perspective. 

 

I agree, good perspective. In general I think he's an effective DM/destroyer, but is one dimensional.

8 hours ago, Soccerpro said:

Piette is a Teibert. Not strong at anything, decent at most things as a utility guy.

Disagree both have clear their strengths, but both also have flaws that actually inhibit their utility. Tiebert is a very good distributer, but (as pointed out) he lacks the strength to play in the middle and the pace to play out wide. Piette is a good Destroyer but offers nothing going forward and doesn't seem to have (or yet demonstrated) the athleticism needed to move up a level and doesn't seem to have the passing range to play anything outside of that narrow roll. In that respect IMO they're both better specialists than utility players.

 

[Bison44]

Obinna: I'm not comparing Piette to Tiebert.  Although Piette is at the same sort of crossroads that Tiebert was at a few years ago.  Both I would argue were getting caps/chances given their potential and lack of other options.  BUT, when Tiebert seemed to stall and more options became available (youngsters and late commiters) the caps dried up.  I'm saying Piette really needs to show that he has improved and really bring his A game to the Gold cup, as that destroyer/cdm spot will probably be his.  

The number of Caps doesnt make a player better.  Look at some of our recent guys that played at very high levels, Mckenna, Radz, Corrazin, all in that 40-60 cap range.  Piette having 30 already seems way out of proportion for what he has shown on the field so far.  And Tiebert, Osorio and Bekker...which is the better player...which has the most caps??  Sometimes it doesnt make alot of sense.  And of course depth is relevant.  Look at the guys we keep trying at RB.  Imagine if Jaimie Peters hadn't gone of the rails none of those guys would be getting many caps.  That wouldnt change how good a player they were one bit.  

[Wingback6]

On 6/3/2017 at 0:18 PM, harrycoyster said:

He gave away the penalty in a one-goal loss to Costa Rica around when he was first called up.

Thanks mate.

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Bison44 said:

The number of Caps doesnt make a player better.  Look at some of our recent guys that played at very high levels, Mckenna, Radz, Corrazin, all in that 40-60 cap range.  Piette having 30 already seems way out of proportion for what he has shown on the field so far.  And Tiebert, Osorio and Bekker...which is the better player...which has the most caps??  Sometimes it doesnt make alot of sense.  And of course depth is relevant.  Look at the guys we keep trying at RB.  Imagine if Jaimie Peters hadn't gone of the rails none of those guys would be getting many caps.  That wouldnt change how good a player they were one bit.  

When comparing Piette with Mckenna (63 of a possible 119 over 12 years), Corrazin (59 of a possible 94 over 10 years) and Radz (46 of a possible 132 over 14 years) you must take into account the era they played in, which is one in which we did not play as many games as we do today. 

Piette has played 30 of a possible 53 caps in only 4.5 years.

Look closely and you can see that:

1) There are more opportunities to earn caps in this era, which is one reason why he's played so much already.

2) He's played in 58% of possible matches, ahead of Mckenna and Radz, but slightly behind Corrazin (63%).

So to sum it up, I don't think you can look at Radz, Mckenna and Corrazin's relatively low cap totals and draw anything useful. It was a different time. 

If anything, I was interested to discover just how often he's been used. I wasn't expecting for him to play in such a high percentage of our games.

As for the comment about depth, well I would say that Piette plays in a sector of the field that's been our strongest (central midfield) in recent years. By your logic he should have played even less given that central midfield was not a rotating door like RB. Hutchinson, Will Johnson and de Guzman were all locks when available. 

Oh and by the way, Teibert, Osorio and Bekker all virtually have the same number of caps, so I'm not quite sure what your point is i'm afraid.

Sorry, but I just don't see much evidence that Piette hasn't earned his caps. It seems like a subjective opinion that's not backed up by any numbers.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Obinna

[Unnamed Trialist]

I think the easiest explanation was that we indeed had a strong midfield, with Julian in DM mode, so it was all the easier to bring in a player who would not start and could provide coverage. So a young guy. 

Then, thinking about a cover for Julian, how about a guy playing for Deportivo 2nd team, it was a given. Same club where Julian had been, a club that probably signed him thinking "well, we had this one Canadian who worked really well, no reason to discriminate against another."

We could argue that better coverage could have been any of Teibert, Osorio or Bekker, not the same but with apparently more range than Piette and a bit more going forward. Ok, but Bekker played little for his club, and Osorio did not like to be subbed off, never mind not start, never mind sit for 80 minutes. Get the kid who won't complain, and will always come, not like some of the MLSers with their clubs always trying to negotiate call-ups, and frequently refusing them.

Piette was called for Canada two years in a row in the middle of a promotion playoff for Deportivo, last June and the one before. That did not help their attempt to promote, made it hard for the club to keep him. Two critical campaigns to go up a tier and he was not there for them. If they had promoted either, he'd have likely stayed with them, in 2B like at Izarra but a club with way more upside. 

BTW, last week Depor B finally did promote to 2B.

 

 

[Bison44]

As for the point with Bekker/Tiebert/Osorio, I didnt think I had to spell it out.  The have almost the same number of caps (from the same era and in the midfield), but that doesnt make them the same caliber of player, the guy with the most caps is probably the worst of the 3.  

Hutch,Deguz, Johnson were locks sure, but Johnson was out of the national team picture for almost 2 years, that was right when Piette got alot of his chances so depth does factor into it somewhat.

Ahhhh, subjective opinions, where would the site be without them??  In the end I'm saying he has gotten alot of caps.  Coaches have seen alot of potential.  I am saying I hope we see it on the field, I hope he starts playing like the guys he has been groomed to replace, Hutch/Deguz.  And if he is getting into the same % of matches as Mckenna and Radz did, I would hope that we see more out of him, starting sooner rather than later.  The thread is called we havent seen the best of him yet eh?  I am hoping that is going to be true.  Because we need another DeGuz/Hutch to show themselves soon!  And in the end we are all on the same team, GO CANADA.  Cheers Obinna!!  

 

 

[ThiKu]

On 6/3/2017 at 8:07 PM, Obinna said:

I have personally been disappointed in Teibert as of late. Good engine, great technique, but below average pace and strength.

I wouldn't be surprised if Piette goes on to have a more successful career than Teibert. He already has almost double the caps and is 2 years younger. 

good technique? watch his passing more closely. 

[Obinna]

43 minutes ago, ThiKu said:

good technique? watch his passing more closely. 

His technique is far better than Osorio's.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Obinna

[Vince193]

32 minutes ago, Obinna said:

His technique is far better than Osorio's.

It isn't at all. Teibert is basically hard work, piss and vinegar and his technique hasn't improved since 2013. Osorio is much more able with the ball close to him and can pass better. Teibert just as a better engine and will fight more for the ball.

[Obinna]

48 minutes ago, Vince193 said:

It isn't at all. Teibert is basically hard work, piss and vinegar and his technique hasn't improved since 2013. Osorio is much more able with the ball close to him and can pass better. Teibert just as a better engine and will fight more for the ball.

It's subjective of course, but in my opinion Osorio has relatively poor technique compared to the other aspects of his game which are quite good.

I should also mention that I am referring to his shooting and passing technique.

This is not to say he doesn't have good ball control. He does in fact, both on his first touch and when dribbling. Is Osorio a good passer? Yes, absolutely he is, but his technique is not very strong. Don't conflate being a "poor passer" with having "poor passing technique".

To use an NBA example, Shawn Marion had absolutely terrible technique when shooting a basketball. But was he a bad shooter? Hardly. He was not known as a great shooter but he was definitely competent, at times knocking down 3-pointers with no problem. 

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by Obinna

[Havoc88]

On 2017-06-04 at 2:24 PM, Wingback6 said:

Thanks mate.

And he's fat too, right guys?

[Big_M]

Now that's a good boy Sammy you little ball of energy

 

[shermanator]

20 hours ago, Havoc88 said:

And he's fat too, right guys?

I have to laugh at the people who were saying this a while back (not implying you were one of them). Nothing like a bunch of people who are built like a bag of milk insulting a professional athletic because he doesn't have abs like Ronaldo.

 

[johnyb]

Smokin!, Sam looks good too.

[deschamp86]

1 hour ago, shermanator said:

I have to laugh at the people who were saying this a while back (not implying you were one of them). Nothing like a bunch of people who are built like a bag of milk insulting a professional athletic because he doesn't have abs like Ronaldo.

Why are people outside of Ontario always hating on bagged milk

[shermanator]

25 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

Why are people outside of Ontario always hating on bagged milk

Fuck bags of milk. You ever spill a full bag when trying to put it in the holder? No Froot Loops for you!

Stupid traumatic childhood!

[harrycoyster]

38 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

Why are people outside of Ontario always hating on bagged milk

Because we are a civilized people, who know milk belongs in cartons.