The NASL sky is falling

[Levi Oakey]

9 minutes ago, Alex D said:

Pro/rel isn't feasible in the states but your think they could keep it tidier than it is. 

Precisely. I guess it makes sense for America. Live free or die and all that.

[Alex D]

I think they changed that to "give me money or get out of my way"

[Alex D]

20 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

There are already two leagues at D4 level (PDL and NPSL), so I don't think it's a huge issue or particularly difficult to understand. By all accounts on twitter the USSF were only going to sanction USL as the sole league at D2 if they agreed to accept all of the remaining NASL teams at a reduced entry fee, which USL opted not to do as they were not keen on Miami, Puerto Rico and Edmonton for various reasons, so I don't think the USSF had much option at this point in pragmatic terms. From a Canadian standpoint this entrenches the three MLS affiliate/reserves at D2 level, which players have to sign with to get domestic status in MLS for the rest of their career, so there is less of an obvious niche now for "CPL" to fill when the CSA are doing things like Generation Adidas Canada that appear to place MLS at the top of the Canadian development pathway.

You do realize that these are made up numbers right? Just because the USL got a magic "D2" sticker doesn't not make it a low quality reserve league. 

The only way the quality of the USL will improve is if they revert back to a two tierd system. 

[shermanator]

I read a quote on this whole scenario that I think fits perfectly. "When everyone is D2, nobody is". I think this was a compromise to get the distraction over with in the short term, so that the clubs and their players / staff can focus on what should be the most important part: the action on the pitch.

It looks like the drama is over for 9 months or so, and then we get to go through this all over again next offseason. We have one D2 league which is alive by the skin of its teeth, and another D2 league with a number of very strong clubs, as well as a large number of MLS reserve clubs. Personally, I would like to see NASL merge with USL where the stronger clubs are D2, and the weaker clubs and MLS reserve clubs are D3. Can't see that happening though.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Cosmos confirm they are back:

there was some lingering doubt as to whether joint-D2 was what they had in mind when they said they needed D2 status to make the ownership change and continue.

[Steedman]

So the initial NASL/USL split was because half of the league wanted to become feeder clubs attached to MLS money and the others wanted to stay independent. USL operates with a weird mixture of both, so why not have a merger of leagues and split East and West coast conferences to cut down on travel costs. Allow clubs to produce talent and bring in higher priced players (not too high, Im not saying Cap, but something like that) let the league spread its wings and fly!

[shermanator]

There will be 8 teams in NASL in 2017. Edmonton, San Francisco, New York Cosmos, North Carolina, Miami, Jacksonville, Puerto Rico and Indy 11. There are rumours of clubs from San Diego, Orange County and Atlanta starting in the fall season but nothing official. Atlanta would be a massive, massive misstep in my opinion. 

http://www.nasl.com/news/2017/01/06/nasl-releases-statement-on-provisional-division-ii-status

[yothat]

wouldn't make sense for the Atlanta NASL team to take MLS ATLUnited players on loan just because of the close proximity. Silverbacks were able to draw pretty devently for being div.2 and had not a bad venue.

[Complete Homer]

One of the few advantages of the NASL model is that, outside generating bad PR and unsettling investors, teams folding doesn't hurt the bottom line of other franchises. It allows the shotgun expansion style with less risk for individual owners. I bet Fath is happy to take his cut of an Atlanta expansion fee, and nearly any owner on board in an attempt to win the race to hit D2 requirements before USL

[Kent]

11 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

There are already two leagues at D4 level (PDL and NPSL), so I don't think it's a huge issue or particularly difficult to understand. By all accounts on twitter the USSF were only going to sanction USL as the sole league at D2 if they agreed to accept all of the remaining NASL teams at a reduced entry fee, which USL opted not to do as they were not keen on Miami, Puerto Rico and Edmonton for various reasons, so I don't think the USSF had much option at this point in pragmatic terms. From a Canadian standpoint this entrenches the three MLS affiliate/reserves at D2 level, which players have to sign with to get domestic status in MLS for the rest of their career, so there is less of an obvious niche now for "CPL" to fill when the CSA are doing things like Generation Adidas Canada that appear to place MLS at the top of the Canadian development pathway.

CSA calling CPL D1 doesn't change the fact that CPL will be "D2 level", but USSF's divine decision to call USL D2 suddenly creates a jump from D3 level to D2 level. I'm not sure I understand your logic on this one.

[Macksam]

34 minutes ago, Kent said:

CSA calling CPL D1 doesn't change the fact that CPL will be "D2 level", but USSF's divine decision to call USL D2 suddenly creates a jump from D3 level to D2 level. I'm not sure I understand your logic on this one.

Good luck getting an answer to that.

[Mister215Guy]

Canada should get out of the USSF dysfunctional "pyramid" and set up a real open system. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

9 hours ago, Kent said:

CSA calling CPL D1 doesn't change the fact that CPL will be "D2 level", but USSF's divine decision to call USL D2 suddenly creates a jump from D3 level to D2 level. I'm not sure I understand your logic on this one.

USL was always D2 level in terms of the CSA's sanctioning standards.

[Blackdude]

18 hours ago, Steedman said:

So the initial NASL/USL split was because half of the league wanted to become feeder clubs attached to MLS money and the others wanted to stay independent. USL operates with a weird mixture of both, so why not have a merger of leagues and split East and West coast conferences to cut down on travel costs. Allow clubs to produce talent and bring in higher priced players (not too high, Im not saying Cap, but something like that) let the league spread its wings and fly!

No, the initial NASL/USL split was because NASL clubs wanted to have more control in their league and not pay to help  PDL, W-League. USISL,Super Y-League.

[ted]

8 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

USL was always D2 level in terms of the CSA's sanctioning standards.

Where did you get that from? Can you link to any statement from the CSA that says they considered the USL and NASL to be the same all these years?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Try reading that again. At no point did I say it was sanctioned all I said was that it was "D2 level". Under CSA sanctioning standards D3 is regional semi-pro and normally sanctioned by a provincial association. That's totally different from what the USSF regards as D3.

[ted]

^ Are you replying to me because I have no idea what you are saying now.

You said, "USL was always D2 level in terms of the CSA's sanctioning standards." And I asked where you got that from.

[Kent]

On 2017-01-08 at 6:41 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

USL was always D2 level in terms of the CSA's sanctioning standards.

Even if CSA's sanctioning standards deemed it D2 (I think it is quite the leap to say that the CSA considered it D2 level because they failed to say specifically otherwise.), wouldn't accepting that (imaginary) ruling lead someone to accept a ruling that CSA considers CPL D1?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

I never made such a leap. Are you sure you are not being argumentative for the sake of it at this point?

[Kent]

10 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

I never made such a leap. Are you sure you are not being argumentative for the sake of it at this point?

I am certain I am not.

[Marc]

On 1/7/2017 at 8:51 AM, Levi Oakey said:

Wow, USSF is a mess. Granting two separate leagues D2 "status. One of those leagues only have 8 teams (and completely dependent on granting said status, otherwise they would have 6). The other being an MLS reserve team league. I feel like Sunil lost his backbone. USSF's main job is to guide soccer development and they have just made it ridiculously difficult to understand.

I don't get the confusion.

The USL applying for D2 status was just a huge bet on the NASL folding.

When NASL didn't fold, the USSF was totally screwed.  They were asked to pick quantity (USL) over quality (NASL, sorta).

Option 1: Sanctioning only USL as D2 effectively kills the NASL in favour of what is a league of patchwork quality.

Option 2: Sanctioning only NASL bets on a six team horse and discourages USL improvement and stunts its development, which USSF needs as backpocket in case NASL collapses.

Option 3:  Sanction both, hedge your bets, no loss of leagues or clubs

Without promotion and relegation, D2 status is just status.  It means nothing.

If the USSF's job is to ensure soccer keeps developing, then they made the right choice here.
 

[Levi Oakey]

3 minutes ago, Marc said:

I don't get the confusion.

The USL applying for D2 status was just a huge bet on the NASL folding.

When NASL didn't fold, the USSF was totally screwed.  They were asked to pick quantity (USL) over quality (NASL, sorta).

Option 1: Sanctioning only USL as D2 effectively kills the NASL in favour of what is a league of patchwork quality.

Option 2: Sanctioning only NASL bets on a six team horse and discourages USL improvement and stunts its development, which USSF needs as backpocket in case NASL collapses.

Option 3:  Sanction both, hedge your bets, no loss of leagues or clubs

Without promotion and relegation, D2 status is just status.  It means nothing.

If the USSF's job is to ensure soccer keeps developing, then they made the right choice here.
 

Put simply. As a youth player who didn't cut it in the MLS draft. Where should I play? The USSF failed this player. Imagine playing at elite level while reading constant speculation that the whole league you are in might not be around next year.

The correct approaching is forcing both USL and NASL to come to some sort of collaborative agreement, and effectively showing that you control the development pathway, and that it is secure.

[Marc]

How did the USSF fail the player?  They chose the path that gave that kid the most pro options possible.  Anything other than what they chose would have meant the shuttering of some clubs.  The pathway is as secure as tier two pro soccer is going to get in the US.

[-Hammer-]

7 hours ago, Levi Oakey said:

The correct approaching is forcing both USL and NASL to come to some sort of collaborative agreement, and effectively showing that you control the development pathway, and that it is secure.

The problem there is the current NASL owners with stock have a vested interest in continuing to make money from expansion and depature fees and won't ever let that go until the cow has run dry and won't split that cash with others, conversely the USL wants to put a team anywhere and everywhere it can and be a giant player farm, despite the majority of the league being unviable to run independantly.

Anyways, regardless, to me this looks like the USSF admonishing the NASL in a fashion that prevents them from getting sued, by promoting their clear rival. Subtraction through addition in this case. The USL landscape hasn't changed substantially enough in my eye to really warrant a change in sanctioning, apart from taking some of NASL teams and keeping somewhat intact rosters with them. I guess that was enough for the USSF. It is still a leauge where for every Cincinnati knocking on MLS's door, you have an outright MLS Farm, an affilliated MLS farm that isn't drawing (Orange County) and an Independant sucking wind (Harrisburg), but it's still a US league making US players.
 

I think it's them saying "The USL has faults sure, but it's not quite the trainwreck you guys are right now, or were when the traffic scandal hit" Go back to fighting amongst yourselves with the ground war changed up a bit now.

[CDNFootballer]

Although some club owners make money on expansion fees getting a percentage (Fath), the departure or exit fees seem to be going back into the NASL itself as we found out today. Jacksonville will be financed/league run by the league temporarily while its sale is being completed. The funds for the operation of Jacksonville while league owned are coming from this years exit fees, Minnesota $500K, Ottawa $1.5Million & Tampa Bay $1.5 Million.