Floro Must Go

[BearcatSA]

8 minutes ago, The Ref said:

Even though this pertains to U.S. mens soccer, I concur with what these 3 women said in this 8 minute video.  Most if not all applies to Canada as well.  It explains a lot of truths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh3MDgCC4A

 

That's a great find, Ref.  

[toontownman]

Consistency is an advantage if the right factors are in place. All too often managers are sacked before they have a chance to implement their tactics or build their squad. However there is always a thin line between consistency (comfort) and change. 

For me the questions we need to ask are:

A) Are we happy with the current direction the mens national team is heading?

Has Floro shown enough to merit a new contract and that he can take us further? Has his previous record shown he can come through hard periods and downward spirals?

C) Are there better available options to replace Floro?

D) would the CSA have the money or pull to go out and get someone better?

Finally E) Does the manager connect with the players and country where we are trying to grow the game and does he inspire any of the above?

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Consistency is an advantage if the right factors are in place. All too often managers are sacked before they have a chance to implement their tactics or build their squad. However there is always a thin line between consistency (comfort) and change. 

For me the questions we need to ask are:

A) Are we happy with the current direction the mens national team is heading?

Has Floro shown enough to merit a new contract and that he can take us further? Has his previous record shown he can come through hard periods and downward spirals?

C) Are there better available options to replace Floro?

D) would the CSA have the money or pull to go out and get someone better?

Finally E) Does the manager connect with the players and country where we are trying to grow the game and does he inspire any of the above?

That is clearly a no, another, two yeses, and a no. Floro is close, the way we have been close (one goal from being in the HEX vs. Honduras). We need a slight upgrade, which I why I'd stick with a coach from a similar football culture, but younger and a bit more modern. A hardass on defence and tactics, but a bit more creative when it comes to attack, formations, player selection.

[A Different Perspective]

A good coach, like a good teacher or a good boss, can make a difference.  It is disingenuous to think otherwise.  Look at what Ranieri did with Leicester City - no one had them winning the EPL as everyone would say they, like Canada, have inferior talent.  Closer to home, Herdman did a great job after taking over from Morace - she was a tight disciplinarian that the players did not respond to.  Floro, like Morace, is forcing the players to play his system, versus to their strengths.  

That said, Floro, has done some good things, but ultimately, his mandate is to get this team to the Hex. Yes, we don't match up to Mexico - but our talent level as many have stated is not inferior to the rest of Concacaf.  

The results speak for themselves.     He was also brought in to get our M-23 to the Olympics - so that along with the Gold Cup failure  (10th) and not even qualifying for a play-in semi game to attend the Copa America, his background involvement for the poor Panam results lead by his son, does not bode well for him.

Let's all hope for a good result in Vancouver and Mexico City - otherwise, time to move on.

 

 

 

[Floortom]

I think it's pretty clear that unless we get a miracle and advance to the Hex Flro will not be retained. 

Every single measuring test he has failed - Olympics, Gold Cup and Hex. Its not all his fault obviously, but In a results-driven environment he has failed. That's that

[Stryker911]

While we are ranting about Floro. I also wonder what makes his son Antonio qualified to coach? I watched them play at the Pan-Ams which he was the head coach for and the team was horrible. Did the CSA have to hire his son in order to get him?

[Moldy9]

¡¡¡Afuera con los Españoles!!! ¡Arriba Canadá Arriba!

 

[The Beaver]

While I still maintain that our talent pool is too thin for ANY manager to get much of a result, I DO feel that Floro must go if he fails to get us to the Hex. I know that we got killed in Honduras the last time around, but for a time Hart had us playing some dynamic football, especially in that one Gold Cup. I think we need a manager who is a bit more contemporary and dynamic, somebody who can make the most of what he has, and has Jeffrey said in an earlier post, actually motivate our guys so we get the best out of each of them.  I DO feel that consistency is important, and I'd be willing to have a coach stay on IF I felt that I was seeing significant improvement on the field, and IF I felt that more time was needed for the manager's philosophy to mature among the players.  I could be wrong, but I don't feel that is what is happening under Floro.

[Vince193]

Floro keeps harping about changing how tie breakers work in CONCACAF. Anything to avoid actually taking responsibility.

[jpg75]

15 minutes ago, Vince193 said:

Floro keeps harping about changing how tie breakers work in CONCACAF. Anything to avoid actually taking responsibility.

What an idiot. He's supposed to know these things going in and plan accordingly. 0-0 in San Salvador, Benito.

[bwilly11]

I was on the Floro defensive for a long time. However, I've since changed my tune. 

I agree wholeheartedly with many of you, results matter and that is why the manager is always the first guy to get sacked when things go wrong.

Floro has brought some credibility to the CSA because he is a B list celebrity in world football, but not much more. His brief stint at Real Madrid gives him extra undeserved clout that other managers wouldn't get. This has definitely helped in getting us the likes of Arfield,Holliet,Vitoria, and Aird to sign up. However, none of his recruits have made a major impact yet. Most people would agree that we cannot have unattached FC players on our national team, but Floro rates them higher because he still believes that even a player who is unattached is superior to a MLS starter. He has failed to create a mentality that you must be fit to play. We are have little competition within the squad. You dont see this in other nations.

His defensive moves have everyone questioning his tactics, rightfully so when we need to score goals. If he fails to qualify for the Hex he must go. Ask Floro to remain in the CSA in some capacity to help move our development moving forward, he can still be useful way from the sidelines. The CSA needs to pony up and get a serious manager who has a winning record. We need our Klinsmann type of manager.

I also agree we dont have enough talent yet, but it is up to the manager to find more and make it work.

[Free kick]

14 hours ago, The Ref said:

Even though this pertains to U.S. mens soccer, I concur with what these 3 women said in this 8 minute video.  Most if not all applies to Canada as well.  It explains a lot of truths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh3MDgCC4A

 

Thanks.  That's a very insightful piece. I think all the points are spot on and, yes, it applies to Canada.   We have trouble finding  that special talent and its that special talent that makes the difference.  The US has fallen off from where they were 10 years ago and a lot of it has to do with Landon Donovan retiring.  No one has really replaced him.  We have never had that kind of player that you can put in the middle of the pitch and create things on his own through he skills.  Just like Giovinco can do for TFC.  The US doesn't have that anymore

we don't have that environment for that kind of player to come through.  And if he does, he will probably end up in another sport.

 

[jpg75]

^ or playing for another country.

[Guest]

I'm going to quote Ken Dryden on this one "Young players are told to simply play the game, not invent it"

[Supersonic78]

I'd say we have more talent than our results. Something or a bunch of things are holding us back. One of them to my untrained eyes is the coach.

Bottom line, he had his chance, he failed spectacularly (see Belize and El Sal games), it's time to move on.

[BearcatSA]

I'm surprised he doesn't play that 4-2-3-1 as opposed to 4-1-4-1

 

-------------------Larin-----------------

Hoillet----------Arfield-------Ricketts/Akindele/Jackson

-----------Hutchinson--Edgar-------

I'd prefer the Whitecaps guy back more to support Hutchinson with the Burnley man providing the attacking support.  That may have helped them keep their shape better because they sure got stretched, especially on the play leading up to the winning goal (there's my armchair quarterback contribution!).

 

[The Ref]

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

Thanks.  That's a very insightful piece. I think all the points are spot on and, yes, it applies to Canada.   We have trouble finding  that special talent and its that special talent that makes the difference.  The US has fallen off from where they were 10 years ago and a lot of it has to do with Landon Donovan retiring.  No one has really replaced him.  We have never had that kind of player that you can put in the middle of the pitch and create things on his own through he skills.  Just like Giovinco can do for TFC.  The US doesn't have that anymore

we don't have that environment for that kind of player to come through.  And if he does, he will probably end up in another sport.

 

In our case I think that at one time "that kind of player" could have been Alex Bunbury who regrettably was ignored by Holger.

[bwilly11]

3 hours ago, Free kick said:

Thanks.  That's a very insightful piece. I think all the points are spot on and, yes, it applies to Canada.   We have trouble finding  that special talent and its that special talent that makes the difference.  The US has fallen off from where they were 10 years ago and a lot of it has to do with Landon Donovan retiring.  No one has really replaced him.  We have never had that kind of player that you can put in the middle of the pitch and create things on his own through he skills.  Just like Giovinco can do for TFC.  The US doesn't have that anymore

we don't have that environment for that kind of player to come through.  And if he does, he will probably end up in another sport.

 

Christian Pulisic is certainly a guy who could take the US to another level. While still young, he has the makings of one of the most exciting players to ever come out of the US. I completely agree with you though, we dont have the environment to bring up a star young player. Why? Who knows...Maybe the fact we have been too scared to try to cap our 17-20 year olds coming up.  If we dont take risks on guys like Timori and Doughty and the likes, they may never bring their game to the next level, or just go elsewhere. Just look at how a guy like Marcus Rashford has completely taken off. He was virtually unknown until LVG gave him a shot, now hes one of the top young stars for England. It never fails to amaze me why we call up unattached players and forget about out youth. If we actually reject calling up the unattached we may actually motivate them to find a club...

anyways, off topic a bit, rant over

 

[red card]

3 hours ago, Supersonic78 said:

I'd say we have more talent than our results. Something or a bunch of things are holding us back. One of them to my untrained eyes is the coach.

Bottom line, he had his chance, he failed spectacularly (see Belize and El Sal games), it's time to move on.

If we don't make the HEX, Floro has failed. But as a manager, his failure isn't unique since we haven't made it over 16 years. 

We made it to the HEX or punched above our weight when we had difference makers at the CONCACAF level. I can only think of 3 players who were difference makers in modern Canadian football history - Forrest (got us Gold Cup), Bunbury (almost got us to USA 94) and Mitchell (Olympic 84 quarters and then in part to Mexico 86). The only manager who was a difference maker was Waiters who was primarily the reason for Mexico 86.

[Supersonic78]

It would just be nice to feel like the coach isn't hurting us, you know?

But when he's telling players to stay home for petty reasons or making stupid subs or parking the bus against El Salvador C team, it's hard not to want to kick him to the curb asap.

[Complete Homer]

There's a lot of legitimate criticisms of Floro, but the bus parking one annoys me. He preached repeatedly that the only way to elevate your chances when talent isn't on your side is to maintain discipline in formation. We got ahead on a set piece then got scored against on the counter. I think Floro was right in that instance - our guys failed to be disciplined and got caught up in an offensive play, and we paid the price. 

You could argue that the guy who lacked discipline was also playing out of position (despite it being a position he's played frequently for Canada and occasionally for TFC, maybe even in training for West Ham), or you could argue that another formation or roster wouldn't have required the same defensive discipline (I doubt it), but I think the failure in Honduras comes down to three factors, in this order:

1) Weather

2) Undisciplined play

3) Floro selecting the roster sub optimally. 

[kacbru]

On 4/09/2016 at 4:05 AM, RJB said:

When are we going to stop blaming the coach, and see that the problem goes well beyond that. Hart took t&t to the hex... so was he a bad coach when he was here? No, we were a bad team, and t&t are better than us. Floro is not the problem. He's brought stability and an improved style and confidence to this team. And the Ledgewood sub is a silly thing to look at, as it shows how naive people are to think only strikers can score; that there's nothing in the midfield that is needed to generate a goal. If we don't advance, he'll quit,but that would be a shame because I've finally enjoyed watching us play, as opposed to watching out of love.

Yes, i think too many people see the Ledgerwood for Larin sub as if Ledgerwood was put in to play striker.  Henry needed support and Larin was isolated / ineffective.  I thought this sub made sense.  It was important not to concede another goal and realistically, the only hope of getting the tying goal was with Ricketts up front using his speed to capitalize on a quick counter.  I don't think Jackson or Haber up front for Larin would have been effective and I don't see what other options there were to free up Ricketts while still providing some defensive support to Henry.

[shamrock]

13 hours ago, A Different Perspective said:

 

That said, Floro, has done some good things, but ultimately, his mandate is to get this team to the Hex. Yes, we don't match up to Mexico - but our talent level as many have stated is not inferior to the rest of Concacaf.  

Anyone who believes this is delusional. 

[shamrock]

7 hours ago, Supersonic78 said:

I'd say we have more talent than our results. Something or a bunch of things are holding us back. One of them to my untrained eyes is the coach.

Bottom line, he had his chance, he failed spectacularly (see Belize and El Sal games), it's time to move on.

What freakin talent? Man if we didn't park the bus against Salvador they'd probably beat us. 

[king1010]

5 hours ago, shamrock said:

What freakin talent? Man if we didn't park the bus against Salvador they'd probably beat us. 

By parking the bus we essentially beat ourselves and knocked us out of wcq. 

Our chances to advance were lost with that draw away to an el salvador b team in a half empty stadium.