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Floro Must Go

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As someone previously posted , is he fired yet? Why , pretty simple really, did not qualify for the Hex and of course the World Cup, had a lousy GC. His baffling player selections and in game substitutions .  For a coach supposedly selecting players that he thought fit his master defensive tactics Canada still gave up too many goals to Mexico with a 3-0 thrashing at home in a  sold out pro Canadian stadium. This team again with Floro's player selections of picking players that he picked to play his defensive tactics still was not able to get that crucial point in Honduras and the game could have easily been another 8 - 1 loss had it not been for the great play of the Canadian keeper and just Honduras misfiring , so Floro almost had the same result as Hart in Honduras playing Floro ball and using players that could play his system, interesting. Moreover, going into El Salvador and playing an El Salvador lineup that was very depleted and still playing bunker soccer and not being able to get a victory.  Therefore, for these reasons is why I will once again ask, is he fired yet?

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They don't have to fire him.  His contract expired when we were eliminated. I'm sure they will meet with him next week and talk it out then begin a new coaching search.

*edit* I have a feeling he won't be the coach anymore but he's still going to be involved with the team.

Edited by baulderdash77

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Time to move on from Floro.

He's done some good to the program. I do think he's probably most tactically savvy manager Canada's ever had, but his player management is absolutely garbage. 

If T&T led by Stephen Hart can make the hex with half their players playing pub league soccer in Trinidad, there's no reason Canada's player pool isn't good enough. We just need a manager who can squeeze the max out of our players. Floro couldn't do that.

Floro insists on trying to put a square peg into round hole in terms of player selection. His job is not to reinvent the wheel with players, but to maximize the talent pool he's got because he's got very little time to implement his system.

If not for Hoilett and Arfield making this round of WCQ somewhat respectable, we could have been easily blown out. Good on Floro for getting these guys to commit to Canada, but we need more.

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2 hours ago, Yohan said:

Time to move on from Floro.

He's done some good to the program. I do think he's probably most tactically savvy manager Canada's ever had, but his player management is absolutely garbage. 

If T&T led by Stephen Hart can make the hex with half their players playing pub league soccer in Trinidad, there's no reason Canada's player pool isn't good enough. We just need a manager who can squeeze the max out of our players. Floro couldn't do that.

Floro insists on trying to put a square peg into round hole in terms of player selection. His job is not to reinvent the wheel with players, but to maximize the talent pool he's got because he's got very little time to implement his system.

If not for Hoilett and Arfield making this round of WCQ somewhat respectable, we could have been easily blown out. Good on Floro for getting these guys to commit to Canada, but we need more.

T&T barely advanced in a group with St. Vincent and Guatemala.  You're not comparing apples to apples.

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1 hour ago, yomurphy1 said:

T&T barely advanced in a group with St. Vincent and Guatemala.  You're not comparing apples to apples.

Everyone seems to think Guatemala is a push over. They beat the USA at home. Many of you wrongfully underrate them

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57 minutes ago, canta15 said:

Everyone seems to think Guatemala is a push over. They beat the USA at home. Many of you wrongfully underrate them

I don't think it means that. It means that Guatemala isn't as good as Honduras.

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3 hours ago, yomurphy1 said:

T&T barely advanced in a group with St. Vincent and Guatemala.  You're not comparing apples to apples.

T&T earned a higher seed with its Gold Cup play - it even scored 4 goals against Mexico.  How did Canada do at the Gold Cup to move up it's seeding for WCQ?  

You play for 0-0 draws or to capitalize on maybe one lone chance it is a high risk proposition that catches up to you at some point - in Canada's case had it played earlier like its last game against El Salvador maybe it too could have got a better WCQ draw.

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On 10/9/2016 at 1:34 PM, 1996 said:

As someone previously posted , is he fired yet? Why , pretty simple really, did not qualify for the Hex and of course the World Cup, had a lousy GC. His baffling player selections and in game substitutions .  For a coach supposedly selecting players that he thought fit his master defensive tactics Canada still gave up too many goals to Mexico with a 3-0 thrashing at home in a  sold out pro Canadian stadium. This team again with Floro's player selections of picking players that he picked to play his defensive tactics still was not able to get that crucial point in Honduras and the game could have easily been another 8 - 1 loss had it not been for the great play of the Canadian keeper and just Honduras misfiring , so Floro almost had the same result as Hart in Honduras playing Floro ball and using players that could play his system, interesting. Moreover, going into El Salvador and playing an El Salvador lineup that was very depleted and still playing bunker soccer and not being able to get a victory.  Therefore, for these reasons is why I will once again ask, is he fired yet?

The second statement  is basically a "if pigs had wings" statement, totally ridiculous argument (the 2-1 was the same as the 8ñ1 and the coaching was the same) and frankly mindblowing people think that makes any sense at all. 

Same as arguing we should not lose 0-3 to Mexico, no idea at all really. Once you are behind you have to open up a bit to look for a goal, because the crowd is pushing, a good team will punish you for doing that. We lost by that amount in part because we had a crowd pushing us, typical mistake vs. a way superior team.

But still, "Floro almost had the same result as Hart in Honduras playing Floro ball", what kind of drugs are some of you guys taking, I mean really.

Edit: I am still in favour of firing him. Let him have one more team friendly at home, if that is what the CSA wants to be nice to him and give him a send-off or whatever they want, the niceties, but it makes no sense really. We don't need a coach really and our assistants can handle friendlies for the next 4-5 months.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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3 hours ago, 1996 said:

I'm taking very good drugs actually, expensive but good?

I don't always agree with Jeffrey but to be honest your post was particularly stupid even though I also agree Floro should move on as long as we hire someone of a high level to replace him. If we want to play the 2-1 could have possibly been another score game, lets not forget both Honduran goals had an element of luck to them and keepers do sometimes make good saves so there are any number of possible results that could have happened in that game had a few plays or bounces gone otherwise such as 1-1 or even us winning 1-0. And if I recall correctly Hirschfeld actually had a good game in the 8-1 game and it could have ended a lot higher. There is no comparison between the 2-1 and 8-1 games, in one game we had a chance at a tie or better and it did not work out and in the other we were getting blown out after 30 minutes.

Floro brought some lacking tactical organization to the team but also made some controversial selections and substitutions while at the same time being hurt by some things not under his control like absolutely terrible finishing and players not getting playing time at their clubs. In the end we did not qualify under him so I think he has to accept some criticism and resign or be fired but the whole "how dare he play defensive with Canada when we are capable of so much better and how dare he not call Osorio" crowd are seriously annoying and ignorant.

Edited by Grizzly

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1 minute ago, Grizzly said:

I don't always agree with Jeffrey but to be honest your post was particularly stupid even though I also agree Floro should move on as long as we hire someone of a high level to replace him. If we want to play the 2-1 could have possibly been another score game, lets not forget both Honduran goals had an element of luck to them and keepers do sometimes make good saves so there are any number of possible results that could have happened in that game had a few plays or bounces gone otherwise such as 1-1 or even us winning 1-0. And if I recall correctly Hirschfeld actually had a good game in the 8-1 game and it could have ended a lot higher. There is no comparison between the 2-1 and 8-1 games, in one game we had a chance at a tie or better and it did not work out and in the other we were defeated before even half of the first half was over.

Floro brought some lacking tactical organization to the team but also made some controversial selections and substitutions while at the same time being hurt by some things not under his control like absolutely terrible finishing and players not getting playing time at their clubs. In the end we did not qualify under him so I think he has to accept some criticism and resign or be fired but the whole "how dare he play defensive with Canada when we are capable of so much better and how dare he not call Osorio" crowd are seriously annoying and ignorant.

The Honduras game could have and should have ended somewhere around 5-1 based on the run of play and missed opportunities for Honduras. To suggest anything otherwise is difficult to understand.

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20 minutes ago, Soccerpro said:

The Honduras game could have and should have ended somewhere around 5-1 based on the run of play and missed opportunities for Honduras. To suggest anything otherwise is difficult to understand.

Yes, I too recall both games evolving and playing out in very similar fashion. Admittedly, i stoppoed watching the 8-1 game when they the scored the fourth.  But from what i recall, the only difference between the two was that one game ended 2-1 and the other 8-1.   A lot of times the actual scores dont mean much.  In the 2-1 game,  there were times towards end of the match where the Hondurans were going over board trying to be too fancy and trying make the highlight reel.  Hencing resulting in squandered opportunities. 

Edited by Free kick

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8 minutes ago, Soccerpro said:

The Honduras game could have and should have ended somewhere around 5-1 based on the run of play and missed opportunities for Honduras. To suggest anything otherwise is difficult to understand.

True. In term of the run of play, this was similar to the 2012 game. Without Borjan saves this was a 5-1 or 6-1 defeat.

Floro is lucky Borjan had a tremendous game, because for me there was no real improvement in our approach compare with 2012. We couldn't keep possession of the ball and we were weak defensively. Of course, I don't think we can show up in SPS and play a nice possession oriented game but I was expecting a better defensive shape for our team considering the importance of the game.

Without Borjan heroics, Floro would've been fired in SPS. The man was hired to prepare the team for that game and he offered us the same thing as 4 years ago. 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

Floro brought some lacking tactical organization to the team but also made some controversial selections and substitutions while at the same time being hurt by some things not under his control like absolutely terrible finishing and players not getting playing time at their clubs. In the end we did not qualify under him so I think he has to accept some criticism and resign or be fired but the whole "how dare he play defensive with Canada when we are capable of so much better and how dare he not call Osorio" crowd are seriously annoying and ignorant.

You can't win if you don't score.  

 

 

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40 minutes ago, aloyol said:

True. In term of the run of play, this was similar to the 2012 game. Without Borjan saves this was a 5-1 or 6-1 defeat.

Floro is lucky Borjan had a tremendous game, because for me there was no real improvement in our approach compare with 2012. We couldn't keep possession of the ball and we were weak defensively. Of course, I don't think we can show up in SPS and play a nice possession oriented game but I was expecting a better defensive shape for our team considering the importance of the game.

Without Borjan heroics, Floro would've been fired in SPS. The man was hired to prepare the team for that game and he offered us the same thing as 4 years ago. 

Even the captain admitted after the game that the team had lost it shape in the second half.

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1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

Even the captain admitted after the game that the team had lost it shape in the second half.

I had to stop watching after 65 mins or I was going to kill myself. I was expecting it to end about 5-1 but I had it on PVR in case I found out later that we suddenly metamorphasized into a football team.

Edited by Lofty

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10 hours ago, aloyol said:

True. In term of the run of play, this was similar to the 2012 game. Without Borjan saves this was a 5-1 or 6-1 defeat.

Floro is lucky Borjan had a tremendous game, because for me there was no real improvement in our approach compare with 2012.

 

There's no comparison between those two games. I remember they had two other quite good chances and our keeper did well. Put it another way...if our strikers had those same two chances, I think it's highly unlikely they would have scored. There was the non-call penalty kick I guess but who's to say how the game goes from there. Sure Borjan had an excellent game but you expect a keeper to make some saves.

I was hopeful of a result until the dying minutes in Honduras and I was hopeful until the last 25 minutes of the El Salvador game of qualifying for the Hex. For me, that's a high-water mark of hopefulness for this team so I'm relatively happy about it. At least we went down trying rather than a complete surrender like last time. I just hope we can bring up our ranking so we get a weaker group next time around. 

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2 hours ago, rightback said:

There's no comparison between those two games. I remember they had two other quite good chances and our keeper did well. Put it another way...if our strikers had those same two chances, I think it's highly unlikely they would have scored. There was the non-call penalty kick I guess but who's to say how the game goes from there. Sure Borjan had an excellent game but you expect a keeper to make some saves.

I was hopeful of a result until the dying minutes in Honduras and I was hopeful until the last 25 minutes of the El Salvador game of qualifying for the Hex. For me, that's a high-water mark of hopefulness for this team so I'm relatively happy about it. At least we went down trying rather than a complete surrender like last time. I just hope we can bring up our ranking so we get a weaker group next time around. 

Moments away from heading into the half with a 1-0 lead. Nothing like the last go around...

 

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If the recipe for success in SPS is giving 75% possession to Honduras plus 4-5 excellent scoring chances in the first half, then Floro is a Genius.

Of course I was glad we were leading 1-0 instead of losing 2/3 nil. But that was still a very uninspired first half from our MNT and I was expecting a different showing, specially defensively. The team didn't looked prepared for this game (nor did the 2012 team) and getting a freak 1-0 lead doesn't change that. Anyways, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

 

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15 hours ago, Grizzly said:

I don't always agree with Jeffrey but to be honest your post was particularly stupid even though I also agree Floro should move on as long as we hire someone of a high level to replace him. If we want to play the 2-1 could have possibly been another score game, lets not forget both Honduran goals had an element of luck to them and keepers do sometimes make good saves so there are any number of possible results that could have happened in that game had a few plays or bounces gone otherwise such as 1-1 or even us winning 1-0. And if I recall correctly Hirschfeld actually had a good game in the 8-1 game and it could have ended a lot higher. There is no comparison between the 2-1 and 8-1 games, in one game we had a chance at a tie or better and it did not work out and in the other we were getting blown out after 30 minutes.

Floro brought some lacking tactical organization to the team but also made some controversial selections and substitutions while at the same time being hurt by some things not under his control like absolutely terrible finishing and players not getting playing time at their clubs. In the end we did not qualify under him so I think he has to accept some criticism and resign or be fired but the whole "how dare he play defensive with Canada when we are capable of so much better and how dare he not call Osorio" crowd are seriously annoying and ignorant.

I'm not picking on you, but I see this thrown around everywhere. What makes you think this? 

Last qualifying cycle under Hart, this was our goals for/against record: 

Hart - 2014 - Going into last game:

5GF, 2GA

Floro - 2018 - Going into last game:

2GF, 7GA

While it was a defining game for many reasons, people define all of Hart's reign by the final game against Honduras, which obfuscates what was an otherwise pretty decent tenure. I went into that last game actually believing we had a chance, where I never once felt that way with Floro this go-round.

Why do people think Floro is tactically proficient? I am willing to change my mind, but I just don't see it and not one person has made a compelling argument using evidence of any kind. Instead, it's just kind of dogmatically passed around because of his experience and the clubs he's previously managed. I've asked UT to point out his reasons twice, to which I've been ignored. The closest I can come is suggestions by some players that have said he's far more advanced tactically, but I don't see the results on the pitch. Maybe that's the players not having the footballing brains to interpret his tactics or that his favourites are the ones speaking out in support; who knows? 

From my perspective, it really does feel that we've been taught to bunker, and yes, we do it reasonably well (but we played a reasonably good defensive game under Hart too, while also keeping possession more and creating more chances with a lesser attacking pool). At the same time, I don't feel we've been proficient in two important aspects of the game; attacking and transition. What chance have we got to win or advance in tournaments when the only approach is to park the bus? Almost none. It's convenient to suggest we were close in most games, but the reality when watching is we were not, nor do we have the poacher forward to take a goal when needed, which leaves us toothless. Floro may have had more success when we had a player like DeRo.

To me, Floro's approach is either tactically naive, not appropriate for this talent level, or he just doesn't believe we have the talent to attack - at all. In any scenario, he deserves to be fired because he didn't get results... over and over again. If he is wanted for a technical job at the CSA that oversees technical coaching and direction, then he should be re-assigned in that capacity. Ultimately, as a manager, for which he was hired, he has been an objective failure, no matter the reasons for it.

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@kingvikingstad, you are completely right. Tactically astute? The team couldn't attack or bunker properly. His tenure (still going!) was historically awful by W-L, by GF-GA and even worse by xG and xA. Good finishing and favourable refereeing actually made this team look better than it actually played! 

No one plays 4-1-4-1 or defends set pieces that way in the modern game, and neither wild gambit worked at all. By giving up and playing Ledgerwood at RB in the last game he was implicitly admitting what a colossal mistake it was to play Henry and he was forced by his own stupid roster selections to substitute on defenders in attacking positions when trying to make up a five goal difference! 

The CSA should fire him, hire him back, and fire him again he was so bad. Some of these defences on his reign on here are so ludicrous they are at Russia Today levels of ridiculousness.

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