Liam Millar

[VinceA]

So Liam Millar is the cause of the ESL? This can only be the reason there's so much talk about it on HIS thread.

[LeoH037]

31 minutes ago, VinceA said:

So Liam Millar is the cause of the ESL? This can only be the reason there's so much talk about it on HIS thread.

No? Just happens to be the only player linked with one of the dirty 12

[VinceA]

3 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

No? Just happens to be the only player linked with one of the dirty 12

My point is try to keep the discussion about him.

[LeoH037]

This is too fun 

[Mikmacdo]

Charlton are not far off a playoff spot. Could we see Charlton vs Sunderland in the playoffs? 

[Brethers8]

2 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

Charlton are not far off a playoff spot. Could we see Charlton vs Sunderland in the playoffs? 

Winner gets in the super league?

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, Brethers8 said:

Winner gets in the super league?

Lol. Dick move. 

[LeoH037]

8 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

Charlton are not far off a playoff spot. Could we see Charlton vs Sunderland in the playoffs? 

Better yet, with the top 6 gone, maybe we could see smaller clubs like Charlton make it to the 1st division 😅

[Kent]

21 hours ago, An Observer said:

Right now, European football is run like the equivalent of having professional baseball or football leagues in every state of the US with the richest and best leagues being in New York, Texas and California and therefore the richest clubs.  Its ridiculous when you think about it.  Imagine that the New England Patriots couldn't win anything as they happen to be in a tiny state of Massachusetts so have to play a schedule against Worcester and Springfield so don't have the budget of New York Giants or Jets who just kill them every time they meet them in the Champions League other than that one year when New England pulls an upset and every one of their fans remembers it for the next 40 years.  And that is what they live off of forever  Its kinda pathetic.

I think a decent analogy is calling the Champions League the playoffs, and the domestic leagues the regular season. It's not a perfect analogy because the Champions League is like a super (sorry for using the dirty dozen's term) playoffs, but stay with me here. What they are trying to do is like having the NBA have their regular season, but then when it's all done, even if Philadelphia and Milwaukee are the top teams in the East, and Utah and Denver are the top teams in the West, the teams that go to the playoffs are the Knicks, Celtics, Lakers, and Clippers because they are the most popular or have the most new money.

If this Super League had come into being 20 years ago Manchester City would be on the outside looking in now. PSG apparently turned it down but they wouldn't have been invited 20 years ago. If you go back 30 years ago Chelsea wouldn't be involved either. Maybe Napoli or Roma would be involved (I don't know Serie A that well, maybe bad examples). The existence of the Champions League and the absense of the Super League has allowed clubs like Manchester City, Chelsea, and PSG to elbow their way into the elite (for better or worse) and earn their way with results on the field (even if the results on the field were enabled by a cash infusion off of it).

I have a better idea than this Super League. Why don't we just have accountants tell us after every year which team has the most revenue and they become the champions. Results on the field obviously don't matter if we have 4 Super League teams that have never won the Champions League and 12 previous winners (not even including Bayern and Dortmund who apparently turned them down) that are on the outside looking in. Heck, 4 clubs have won it multiple times that weren't even considered for this Super League.

Sorry everyone for derailing, I just have to blow off some steam. And it isn't lost on me how ridiculous my outrage is considering I've almost entirely stopped watching European games in favour of closed leagues like CPL and MLS.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Kent

[An Observer]

11 minutes ago, Kent said:

I think a decent analogy is calling the Champions League the playoffs, and the domestic leagues the regular season. It's not a perfect analogy because the Champions League is like a super (sorry for using the dirty dozen's term) playoffs, but stay with me here. What they are trying to do is like having the NBA have their regular season, but then when it's all done, even if Philadelphia and Milwaukee are the top teams in the East, and Utah and Denver are the top teams in the West, the teams that go to the playoffs are the Knicks, Celtics, Lakers, and Clippers because they are the most popular or have the most new money.

If this Super League had come into being 20 years ago Manchester City would be on the outside looking in now. PSG apparently turned it down but they wouldn't have been invited 20 years ago. If you go back 30 years ago Chelsea wouldn't be involved either. Maybe Napoli or Roma would be involved (I don't know Serie A that well, maybe bad examples). The existence of the Champions League and the absense of the Super League has allowed clubs like Manchester City, Chelsea, and PSG to elbow their way into the elite (for better or worse) and earn their way with results on the field (even if the results on the field were enabled by a cash infusion off of it).

I have a better idea than this Super League. Why don't we just have accountants tell us after every year which team has the most revenue and they become the champions. Results on the field obviously don't matter if we have 4 Super League teams that have never won the Champions League and 12 previous winners (not even including Bayern and Dortmund who apparently turned them down) that are on the outside looking in. Heck, 4 clubs have won it multiple times that weren't even considered for this Super League.

Sorry everyone for derailing, I just have to blow off some steam. And it isn't lost on me how ridiculous my outrage is considering I've almost entirely stopped watching European games in favour of closed leagues like CPL and MLS.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-the-controversial-super-league-plan-takes-the-north-american-model-of/

I normally don't like a lot of what he says, but there is a lot in there that makes sense to me.

As I said, I would prefer a model where relegation is permitted for the reasons you said.  But in one way, what does it matter if Manchester City is on the outside looking in if this happened 20 years ago.  Remember that the only reason they are on the inside is that they were bought a few years back by a mega rich emirati sheikh who got rich via oil and a family oligopoly.  Ditto for Chelsea being bought by a Russian oligarch who participated in the rape of that country after the fall of communism.  And PSG by Qatari natural gas money.  I find it rather disingenuous that these clubs are rolled out to defend relegation and promotion to the upper echelons.  These are the epitome of the rich billionaires with questionable backgrounds and ethics buying there way in.  The only difference I see is rather than these guys buying in cheap, they will have to pay more in the future to buy one of the top 12 or so sides in the way that owners have to do in the NA professional structure.  That seems fine to me.  Other than I guess for those that are fans of a club outside the top echelon that hope one day their club too can be bought by someone with bags of money and questionable backgrounds and ethics to take them to the promise land.  

 

 

[Aird25]

37 minutes ago, Kent said:

And it isn't lost on me how ridiculous my outrage is considering I've almost entirely stopped watching European games in favour of closed leagues like CPL and MLS.

As someone with no real roots in European football, this is what I’ve been bewildered by the most. Almost every CPL/MLS supporter or pundit I know has displayed clear outrage by this, yet there’s next to no discussion about, or comparisons to, our own system. It seemed like hardly anyone even batted an eye when CPL announced expansion fees

[Macksam]

On a purely speculative level, anybody else feel this Super League/UEFA struggle is subtext to a much greater global conflict? When rich oligarchs are in disagreement over something, it could mean another violent global conflict is around the corner. 

[Kent]

13 minutes ago, An Observer said:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-the-controversial-super-league-plan-takes-the-north-american-model-of/

I normally don't like a lot of what he says, but there is a lot in there that makes sense to me.

As I said, I would prefer a model where relegation is permitted for the reasons you said.  But in one way, what does it matter if Manchester City is on the outside looking in if this happened 20 years ago.  Remember that the only reason they are on the inside is that they were bought a few years back by a mega rich emirati sheikh who got rich via oil and a family oligopoly.  Ditto for Chelsea being bought by a Russian oligarch who participated in the rape of that country after the fall of communism.  And PSG by Qatari natural gas money.  I find it rather disingenuous that these clubs are rolled out to defend relegation and promotion to the upper echelons.  These are the epitome of the rich billionaires with questionable backgrounds and ethics buying there way in.  The only difference I see is rather than these guys buying in cheap, they will have to pay more in the future to buy one of the top 12 or so sides in the way that owners have to do in the NA professional structure.  That seems fine to me.  Other than I guess for those that are fans of a club outside the top echelon that hope one day their club too can be bought by someone with bags of money and questionable backgrounds and ethics to take them to the promise land.

My point about those clubs was just that today's date is arbitrary. Maybe Manchester United ends up consistently in the bottom of the Super League and sheds fans. Their inclusion in the league 20 years from now could end up being a relic, but hey, they were a founder so they are there forever. It's all arrogance and greed and I hate it so much. These 12 teams are trying to get more money, that they don't need, and to do this they are willing to potentially harm entire leagues, including their own and leagues from other countries.

[Bison44]

21 minutes ago, An Observer said:

I normally don't like a lot of what he says, but there is a lot in there that makes sense to me.

Damn you, god damn you all to hell!!!  You tricked me into clicking on a Kelly article.  Seriously though, shouldnt this have its own thread?? I keep thinking there is something about Millar.  

[Kent]

6 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

As someone with no real roots in European football, this is what I’ve been bewildered by the most. Almost every CPL/MLS supporter or pundit I know has displayed clear outrage by this, yet there’s next to no discussion about, or comparisons to, our own system. It seemed like hardly anyone even batted an eye when CPL announced expansion fees

In my defense, I am so envious of the UEFA Champions League model that I made my own kind of club coefficients for the CONCACAF Champions League before CONCACAF started doing it. I have still been advocating that CONCACAF go more towards the European model to have the number of slots each country gets in the CCL to be determined by results. I've also suggested that the only way to get the CPL up to a pretty big size (like 16 clubs or so) would be if there was promotion and relegation, to kind of revitalize the bottom clubs. I've also gotten annoyed with the sheer size of MLS.

It is also easier to take a lack of pro/rel in MLS and CPL since they have never had it. The Super League is ripping apart the Champions League which has a 65 year history.

[Obinna]

4 hours ago, An Observer said:

These are the epitome of the rich billionaires with questionable backgrounds and ethics buying there way in.  The only difference I see is rather than these guys buying in cheap, they will have to pay more in the future to buy one of the top 12 or so sides in the way that owners have to do in the NA professional structure.  That seems fine to me.  Other than I guess for those that are fans of a club outside the top echelon that hope one day their club too can be bought by someone with bags of money and questionable backgrounds and ethics to take them to the promise land.  

 

 

I wonder what Leicester City fans would make of your statement.

[An Observer]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

I wonder what Leicester City fans would make of your statement.

They are already owned by someone with bags of money...

Aiyawatt 'Top' Srivaddhanaprabha^[4] (Thai: อัยยวัฒน์ ศรีวัฒนประภา), (born Aiyawatt Raksriaksorn, 26 July 1985^[5]) is a Thai businessman, the CEO and the Chairman of King Power, and the chairman of Leicester City Football Club and OH Leuven.^[1] On Forbes' 2020 World’s Billionaires List he was one of the five youngest billionaires in Asia.^[6]

[Cheeta]

10 hours ago, Kent said:

...

Sorry everyone for derailing, I just have to blow off some steam. And it isn't lost on me how ridiculous my outrage is considering I've almost entirely stopped watching European games in favour of closed leagues like CPL and MLS.

All good.  The subject is going to dominate everything footie for a long time going forward.

Oh, and there's not a thing ridiculous about supporting the only model of local football you have.  

It's going nuclear.  Certain organizations/owners want a closed league, a private club, they're allowed to spend their money any way they want.  Even if that takes them, and their employees, outside of the FIFA family.  And that's exactly what will happen.  About time. 

This is going to get fun.   The super rich taking advantage of the footballing leagues during the hardships of a pandemic.  Play the bully.  Lovely.  At least there is still enough of an independent press in the footy world.  This is going to get super nasty on levels we can't even imagine.  We ain't seen nothing yet.  

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Cheeta said:

All good.  The subject is going to dominate everything footie for a long time going forward.

Oh, and there's not a thing ridiculous about supporting the only model of local football you have.  

It's going nuclear.  Certain organizations/owners want a closed league, a private club, they're allowed to spend their money any way they want.  Even if that takes them, and their employees, outside of the FIFA family.  And that's exactly what will happen.  About time. 

This is going to get fun.   The super rich taking advantage of the footballing leagues during the hardships of a pandemic.  Play the bully.  Lovely.  At least there is still enough of an independent press in the footy world.  This is going to get super nasty on levels we can't even imagine.  We ain't seen nothing yet.  

Now just watch Jonathan David get sold to Manchester United just when I have to officially stop supporting them, and also make him unavailable for World Cup Qualifying just when it looks like we have an outside shot of making it to the World Cup.

[gator]

Charlton are away to Plymouth today in a very key match for Liam's team in a game of real football where it is important where you finish not how much money your American owners have!

Edited April 20, 2021 by gator

[dyslexic nam]

55 minutes ago, Kent said:

Now just watch Jonathan David get sold to Manchester United just when I have to officially stop supporting them, and also make him unavailable for World Cup Qualifying just when it looks like we have an outside shot of making it to the World Cup.

That is actually a perfect example of the kind of quagmire that could happen if both sides stick to their guns.  Would a guy like JD be as inclined to go to a club like MU, if participation in international footy was prohibited and MU were excluded from other competitions?   Some guys are looking to maximize their payday but others have a more balanced approach.  And if some young prospects and established stars with start looking elsewhere, will the big 12 still have the same appeal?  
 

Interesting times...
 

 

[Obinna]

4 hours ago, An Observer said:

They are already owned by someone with bags of money...

Aiyawatt 'Top' Srivaddhanaprabha^[4] (Thai: อัยยวัฒน์ ศรีวัฒนประภา), (born Aiyawatt Raksriaksorn, 26 July 1985^[5]) is a Thai businessman, the CEO and the Chairman of King Power, and the chairman of Leicester City Football Club and OH Leuven.^[1] On Forbes' 2020 World’s Billionaires List he was one of the five youngest billionaires in Asia.^[6]

But they don't they have "Super League" bags of money, clearly.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, gator said:

Charlton are away to Plymouth today in a very key match for Liam's team in a game of real football where it is important where you finish not how much money your American owners have!

If you follow the question of Charlton ownership, which I don't but looked at today, it is actually a bit of a mess too. Most of the fall they did not know who the real owner was, they were arguing over it. 

https://talksport.com/football/efl/791240/charlton-athletic-thomas-sandgaard-dismisses-paul-elliott-claims/

Any team with that kind of mess in the FO should just forget about any SuperLeague aspirations!

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If you follow the question of Charlton ownership, which I don't but looked at today, it is actually a bit of a mess too. Most of the fall they did not know who the real owner was, they were arguing over it. 

https://talksport.com/football/efl/791240/charlton-athletic-thomas-sandgaard-dismisses-paul-elliott-claims/

Any team with that kind of mess in the FO should just forget about any SuperLeague aspirations!

The Super League should just forget about Super League aspirations. How about that?

[Cheeta]

And here I thought it was a funny.