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Northvansteve

Liam Millar

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4 hours ago, Colliedor said:

Not sure why this isn't debatable. I just go by what my eyes see.

To put it another way, we could debate who is cleaner, has better awareness, etc., but we cannot debate that Borges has been more productive this year.

I was acknowledging that fact of the matter to be true. I think we just misunderstood each other.

4 hours ago, Colliedor said:

Why would I point to league strength? I just made a whole argument on why I don't like to take "league strength" as the deciding factor.

I understand that was your point.

But if you praise Borges for his production and criticize Millar for his lack of production, shouldn't you acknowledge that it is harder to score in the SPL than it is in the CPL?

I assume you agree that the SPL is a tougher league.

4 hours ago, Colliedor said:

I wasn't quick to forget anything.  I didn't say he had 0 production, I just said I think Borges has better production. Is that really so out there that people can't comprehend this? lol. When I'm talking about production, I mean that based on everything with the ball, not just scoring. Passing, crossing etc. And ya, I do see Borges doing a better job with it right now. Is that all subject to change as both players progress? Of course it is. but as of today, I still lean towards someone like Borges.

Same as above. I feel that Borges production comes with an asterisk because of the level he plays at. 

Perhaps there is no issue with people's comprehension, maybe they are just taking the relative weakness of the CPL into account? 

4 hours ago, Colliedor said:

Again, than what were we doing playing players like Kaye, Piette, and Cornelius? I know Canada is/was poor, but even than we still had more experienced players playing in bigger leagues than these guys at the time.

Rob Friend and Simeon Jackson should've been all stars with us if that was the case. League quality shouldn't always be the absolute deciding factor is what I'm saying. Especially in cases like Millar and Borges, where I wouldn't say the quality of the leagues are significantly different.

I agree with you in general that pointing to league strength is lazy. I am not sure that is the case with Millar over Borges. I think there is a legitimate difference in league strength and I can now see that you disagree on that.

Fantastic for the CPL by the way. The fact the levels are close enough to even debate this is a great sign for the future of our domestic league, even if we don't see eye to eye.

4 hours ago, Colliedor said:

I mean, he has a different role though, no? He plays as a striker a lot of the times for Orlando.

He played wide forward a lot, but wasn't the key to the team attack, unlike Borges.

4 hours ago, Colliedor said:

Be honest, is this just yet another case of looking up the stats and not actually watching the player to see his overall performance or something? The guy was seeing the bench more and more for good reason. When I saw  him, I saw the same Akindele that I've been seeing for years. Really underwhelming. He hasn't performed for Canada. So ya, I don't get eager to call up players who haven't changed much. Guy bagged a handful more goals than we're used too seeing, still hasn't changed his overall game though.

I watched Orlando's first few games of the season in 2019. I watched less as the season wore on. I agree that not much has changed. He is not particularly flashy. He never was that sort of player and I don't expect that to change.

That doesn't mean he can't be useful for Canada. He is useful for Orlando and can play in a rhythm with good players. I believe Borges can too, with the benefit of having a lot more razzle dazzle. 

I wouldn't be unhappy if Herdman invests more in Borges this cycle than Akindele. Borges has a really neat skill set. I saw him play live against Cavalry in the CPL final. He has a lot of great tools that should translate at the MLS level and beyond. He needs to actually do it though. Look at Bustos, nearly as impressive as Borges with a similar skillset, and he had issues making an impact in MLS.

All of that said, if Herdman went with Akindele I wouldn't mind. He's forged a career in MLS, which Borges hasn't done yet. I wouldn't really blame Herdman.

And besides, I would be too busy blaming Herdman for playing Davies at left back, thinking he is coaching FC Bayern Canada. Don't get me started on that....

Cheers!

 

Edited by Obinna

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4 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I read to here...then I stopped reading.  The CPL is not significantly different from the SPFL or the Premier Reserve League????  

If you’re total argument is valid, then there’s a guy who has scored 30 goals in the Ottawa-Carleton Soccer League Fourth Division, why isn’t he called up to the CNMT then?

Jonathan David 2.0?

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Sure he is, anyone who can bang in 6-10 goals a year in MLS should be.  Even if you think Tesho is better right now,  I understand why coaches also like to include a Millar/Borges/Shafflebourg type as well.  Some of those guys will take off and some will end up like Aleman/Manella/Bustous who stall out. You know what you have with Tesho, Millar might be one of those special ones, time will tell.  

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44 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Sure he is, anyone who can bang in 6-10 goals a year in MLS should be.  Even if you think Tesho is better right now,  I understand why coaches also like to include a Millar/Borges/Shafflebourg type as well.  Some of those guys will take off and some will end up like Aleman/Manella/Bustous who stall out. You know what you have with Tesho, Millar might be one of those special ones, time will tell.  

I still think Bustos has what it takes to climb back into the CanMNT picture. I have always liked this player. His outstanding cpl season has kind of flown under the radar. We are excited about Borges and rightly so, but Bustos is cut from the same cloth. 

Borges is a 98 and Manella/Aleman are 94s. Bustos is a 96 with 6 caps and did well in most of them, particularly against Scotland. Out of the 3 who have "stalled" out, he is one I think who can find another gear.

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8 hours ago, Obinna said:

I still think Bustos has what it takes to climb back into the CanMNT picture. I have always liked this player. His outstanding cpl season has kind of flown under the radar. We are excited about Borges and rightly so, but Bustos is cut from the same cloth. 

Borges is a 98 and Manella/Aleman are 94s. Bustos is a 96 with 6 caps and did well in most of them, particularly against Scotland. Out of the 3 who have "stalled" out, he is one I think who can find another gear.

Bustos has always looked good, but he has his problems. The main one being not knowing when to pass and when to dribble. He is unpredictable  to the point of being hard to play with. Can't count how many times he dribbled through 3 guys just to be dispossessed. One of those players who does the hard things well, but the easy things poorly.

Bustos has rare skill, but the good ones usually have rounded out their game a bit more by the time they are Busto's age.

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While we should all be glad he’s cracking SPL minutes at 20, outside the Canadian football bubble he’s not super highly rated.

For example his Transfermarkt (I know it’s not the be all end all) value is at $59k.  Transfermarkt takes both level and production into account and in the grand scheme of it the SPL isn’t super highly rated outside Celtic and Rangers.

He has to adjust and make the next jump up in production so he doesn’t go down the Aird, Bustos, Aleman route despite his talent.  I hope he turns it around soon with the productivity.  It is his first season as a pro of course so learning still.

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15 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

For example his Transfermarkt (I know it’s not the be all end all) value is at $59k.  Transfermarkt takes both level and production into account and in the grand scheme of it the SPL isn’t super highly rated outside Celtic and Rangers.

Transfermarkt values Tyler Attardo at $114k, that's a reason to take them with a grain of salt

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