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Carl Haworth


voetbal.dave

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1 hour ago, Soro17 said:

Why not? Every past performance with the U20s and U23s. I am still trying to cleanse my eyeballs.

What? This is a poorly drafted response. First of all, he's never even played for the U-20s. He has three appearances with the U-23s. Not to mention the fact that those appearances were over four years ago. And you're going to advocate that he shouldn't be invited to a NT camp based on limited evidence like that? Read a book.

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On 8/3/2016 at 4:55 PM, Soro17 said:

Why not? Every past performance with the U20s and U23s. I am still trying to cleanse my eyeballs.

I dont think you actually watched.  I think you went on wikipedia or transfermarkt, saw he had some caps at those levels and never scored, and then came on here and wrote some bs.  He was actually pretty decent in those olympic qualifiers.

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22 minutes ago, voetbal.dave said:

I dont think you actually watched.  I think you went on wikipedia or transfermarkt, saw he had some caps at those levels and never scored, and then came on here and wrote some bs.  He was actually pretty decent in those olympic qualifiers.

I'll back that up. I can't remember watching him with the u20s but I remember him with the u23s and thought he looked pretty good,

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51 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

I'll back that up. I can't remember watching him with the u20s but I remember him with the u23s and thought he looked pretty good,

I did watch, if I had looked it up, I wouldn't have lumped in the imaginary U20 appearances. In any event, I am probably being a bit harsh. Some players I have an instant and everlasting dislike for - Adam Bouchard and JGL more recently. I wasn't particularly impressed by Carl's play against the Whitecaps reserves in the  V Cup. He is fine for his level, but let's be realistic about what he is, a journeyman in a 2nd tier league in North America. All the best to him, but he shouldn't be anywhere near a national team call-up.

---------

Just went and looked at my posting history, as luck would have it, here is my post re Haworth from Canada v Cuba on March 26, 2012.

Soro17 replied to Sam's topic in Men's National Teams & Players

Haworth is a real black hole out there. Anything played his way just dies. Get Alderson on.

 

 

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Edited by Soro17
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30 minutes ago, masster said:

I agree with Soro17. I was not impressed by Haworth in those U23 qualifiers either.

I agree. The revisionists are out in full force. 

I'll add that if we are seriously looking to call up a decent - but not outstanding - second division player it is a sign of how far below the top tier in concacaf we really are right now.

I mean seriously, would Carl even be considered in 10th team of American players! Not a chance, but yet we expect to compete against the US and blame our coach when we don't win. We need a reality check. 

Edited by BCM
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The thing is, outside of Ottawa Fury fans or the the odd game seen by FC Edmonton fans none of you have seen him play since the U23s (almost 4½ years ago!).

He was playing Ontario PDL back then and never featured for our youth teams outside of the U-23s. Guess what? He has gotten better since then! He's clearly a late bloomer.

Is he CANMNT material? I don't think he's quite there yet, but he's not the Haworth you remember from 2012.

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3 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

The thing is, outside of Ottawa Fury fans or the the odd game seen by FC Edmonton fans none of you have seen him play since the U23s (almost 4½ years ago!).

He was playing Ontario PDL back then and never featured for our youth teams outside of the U-23s. Guess what? He has gotten better since then! He's clearly a late bloomer.

Is he CANMNT material? I don't think he's quite there yet, but he's not the Haworth you remember from 2012.

@Olympique_de_Marseille of course players change, but there's two points here. The first relates to his play at the U-23s. It wasn't that long ago, but some are re-writing history to reflect that he played well. He didn't. The second, and more relevant, is whether he is a MNT player. I maintain that if we are calling up average 27-year old NASL players we are nowhere near the level of our competitors - and we should temper our expectations accordingly. 

The fact that Carl transformed himself from an pretty good player at a lower tier D1 university (Niagara) to a full time professional is really phenomenal. He was out of his depth in Montreal and, sadly, at the U-23s. All credit to him for persisting, continuing to improve and transforming from a one dimensional goal scorer to a more complete player. He's got now what far too many of our players crave - a full time contract. But he's probably at his peak now or soon will be. Unfortunately for the late bloomers, I'd rather the Nats give exposure to the younger players with far higher upside. For the first time in a long time, we have several such players.

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I dont care what age he is, or whether he sucked at u-23 4years ago.  How many guys do we have scoring goals at a decent level?  There are some young guys in the pipeline that will soon go way beyond his level but for right now he has to at least be in the conversation.  The fact that he has not been in camp learning floros ways would be a negative

I agree with Gagne, but Haber and Jackson are in preseason form, maybe unattached so they wont be at their best.  Akindele is used more of a winger, Cavallini wont answer the call (good chance), that leaves, Larin, Hamilton, Hume...and who else??  Ocean?  Alex Bunbury is not sitting on the bench waiting to come in!   Maybe Haworth gets a shot, depending on the roster floro calls.  And sometimes his call ups are very strange so you never know.  

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I agree with a lot of these statements in principle, but many of the premises used to butress these statements are flawed. First of all, I agree that it does seem odd that in an attempt to improve our chances of competing with the top teams in CONCACAF that the CMNT would call up a middling NASL player. But Carl Haworth is not a middling NASL player. He is a very good one. He is currently tied for fifth in the NASL in goals despite a pretty limited supporting cast. And from what I've heard and seen, he contributes in many other ways as well. He works hard, is clean in possession and he creates chances. 

Also, it seems a little hypocritical that many people on these forums seem to constantly acknowledge Canada's lack of depth, particularly in terms of players skilled in possession, but then see those same people advocate that we limit our already limited talent pool. No one on here is saying Carl Haworth should be immediately slotted in as a starter in the next WC qualifier. But why not let him participate in a camp? 

And finally, I definitely don't think we should limit our talent pool based on the fact that a player may or may not have played well in a couple of U-23 NT games over 4 years ago.

Who knows? Maybe he flames out and he is who we thought he was (RIP Denny Green). Or maybe we have a Jamie Vardy type who just so happens to be a bit of a late bloomer. Or whatever I don't know.

Edited by BleepBlap
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4 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I agree with Gagne, but Haber and Jackson are in preseason form, maybe unattached so they wont be at their best.  Akindele is used more of a winger, Cavallini wont answer the call (good chance), that leaves, Larin, Hamilton, Hume...and who else??  Ocean?  Alex Bunbury is not sitting on the bench waiting to come in!   Maybe Haworth gets a shot, depending on the roster floro calls.  And sometimes his call ups are very strange so you never know.  

This is true, if Carl keeps his form, perhaps he ends up ahead of Haber and Jackson (similar level), as well as Hume and Cavallini (age and unknown commitment respectively). Specifically, if English League 1 or 2 are not a contra-indication to a CMNT call up, then nor should be playing in NASL.

Re: Akindele, I think he's played as a winger both by Dallas and the CMNT as a means of fitting him into the line-up. IMO is best position is actually as a forward.

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Striker is the position we have the most depth on but for some reason we only play with one up top. There are more deserving players that deserve a call over this lad....including Occean

 

Edit: Unless you are being sarcastic. Then I apologize.

Edited by Guest
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  • 1 year later...

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