Academies or Regional or The OPDL

[Kent]

20 minutes ago, Vic said:

Interesting argument with regards to youth team compensation on transfers. If it happens in the U.S. is Canada next?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/03/christian-pulisic-transfer-us-soccer-financials.

 

The [Christian] Pulisic family likely celebrated their son’s life-changing move to Stamford Bridge, but what of Christian’s youth team, the PA Classics? They should, in theory, be due a solidarity payment estimated to be around $547,000, a vast sum to any youth club.

According to Fifa regulations, when a player is sold overseas, up to 5% of the transfer fee is set aside to be distributed to the youth clubs involved in his training and is known as a solidarity payment. The exact amount depends on how much time the player spent at the youth clubs between his 12th and 23rd birthday.

The PA Classics are unlikely to receive that, however, due to the fact the US does not participate in Fifa’s solidarity payments system. At the time of writing, Washington based youth club Crossfire Premier have submitted a petition to Fifa arguing that the club is entitled to collect solidarity payments for its involvement in DeAndre Yedlin’s development.

This is viewed by many as a landmark moment in US Soccer. If Fifa finds in favor of Crossfire they would be entitled to a substantial sum of money from MLS in the wake of Yedlin’s transfer to Tottenham Hotspur in 2014.

“We could have $20m, $30m worth of claims,” Crossfire’s attorney, Lance Reich, told the Athletic back in October. “We’re going to have a Madoff moment in American soccer. Everyone is going to wake up and say, ‘Oh my God – how did it get this way? This is far from about the money anymore. Are we Fifa clubs, or are we not Fifa clubs?”

I believe Doneil Henry's club in Mississauga received solidarity payments when he went to West Ham. Years ago someone posted a video but I'm not sure which thread (maybe the Doneil Henry thread?). I think it was an episode of Red Card where the technical director of the club was interviewed and spoke about it. I don't know if others have gotten payments for players. Obviously Cyle Larin, Ballou Tabla, and Alphonso Davies would be the biggest examples of players that could have earned significant money for their youth clubs. I don't know what happened in their cases.

I think solidarity payments are very important, in particular for keeping L1O clubs going and for hopefully being able to one day reduce the price to play for youth clubs. If, say, Sigma got payments for Cyle Larin, Kyle Bekker, Emery Welshman, Richie (or is it Reggie, or both) Laryea, etc. then maybe they could use that money to reduce the price to their players, giving them some competitive advantages over other clubs. First off better odds of going pro with their training, and a reduced price. Then other clubs will have to try to reduce their prices in order to compete with Sigma. Reduced prices opens up more opportunities for more kids to play at high levels.

Really the only reason why it isn't done in USA is because MLS would rather horde all the money themselves.

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Vic said:

Interesting argument with regards to youth team compensation on transfers. If it happens in the U.S. is Canada next?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/03/christian-pulisic-transfer-us-soccer-financials.

 

The [Christian] Pulisic family likely celebrated their son’s life-changing move to Stamford Bridge, but what of Christian’s youth team, the PA Classics? They should, in theory, be due a solidarity payment estimated to be around $547,000, a vast sum to any youth club.

According to Fifa regulations, when a player is sold overseas, up to 5% of the transfer fee is set aside to be distributed to the youth clubs involved in his training and is known as a solidarity payment. The exact amount depends on how much time the player spent at the youth clubs between his 12th and 23rd birthday.

The PA Classics are unlikely to receive that, however, due to the fact the US does not participate in Fifa’s solidarity payments system. At the time of writing, Washington based youth club Crossfire Premier have submitted a petition to Fifa arguing that the club is entitled to collect solidarity payments for its involvement in DeAndre Yedlin’s development.

This is viewed by many as a landmark moment in US Soccer. If Fifa finds in favor of Crossfire they would be entitled to a substantial sum of money from MLS in the wake of Yedlin’s transfer to Tottenham Hotspur in 2014.

“We could have $20m, $30m worth of claims,” Crossfire’s attorney, Lance Reich, told the Athletic back in October. “We’re going to have a Madoff moment in American soccer. Everyone is going to wake up and say, ‘Oh my God – how did it get this way? This is far from about the money anymore. Are we Fifa clubs, or are we not Fifa clubs?”

OK, huge grain of salt because this is coming from the comments section of the article you linked, and the comment doesn't cite any sources. But "Enduroman" said...

"Actually Tottenham are opposing the solidarity payment to Crossfire, while in his state of the league address, MLS commissioner Don Garber expressed support.

Indeed MLS has already executed in that Alphonso Davies' youth club in Edmonton received a substantial sum following his eight figure transfer from Vancouver Whitecaps to Bayern Munich.

This is purely in self interest of course, as European and Mexican clubs are raiding MLS academies to acquire players like Weston McKennie, Haji Wright and Emerson Hyndman.

Spurs claim that as Crossfire is a for profit institution, which charges substantial fees to coach children, they have already been compensated. The same rule would apply to PA Classics (though as his Dad worked there I don't think the Pulisic family paid).

But the biggest obstacles are US antitrust and child labor laws and they will be tested as part of the Yedlin case."

To add to that grain of salt, I believe he is wrong about his first sentence. I've read articles in the past about the Yedlin case and it seemed to be USSF that was against it, not Tottenham. I've seen similar comments in the past where American fans have pointed to Doneil Henry as being a counterexample, without taking into consideration that these counterexamples (Henry and Davies) are Canadian players, transferring from Canadian teams. I'm not sure if Cyle Larin would be in the Henry/Davies boat or the Yedlin boat since Larin is a Canadian player on an American team.

P.S. Enduroman eventually linked this article which I have not yet read. https://socceresq.com/2018/07/07/what-exactly-is-preventing-us-soccer-and-mls-from-participating-in-the-fifa-solidarity-training-compensation-system/

 

[Saviola7]

 

1 hour ago, Kent said:

I believe Doneil Henry's club in Mississauga received solidarity payments when he went to West Ham. Years ago someone posted a video but I'm not sure which thread (maybe the Doneil Henry thread?). I think it was an episode of Red Card where the technical director of the club was interviewed and spoke about it. I don't know if others have gotten payments for players. Obviously Cyle Larin, Ballou Tabla, and Alphonso Davies would be the biggest examples of players that could have earned significant money for their youth clubs. I don't know what happened in their cases.

I think solidarity payments are very important, in particular for keeping L1O clubs going and for hopefully being able to one day reduce the price to play for youth clubs. If, say, Sigma got payments for Cyle Larin, Kyle Bekker, Emery Welshman, Richie (or is it Reggie, or both) Laryea, etc. then maybe they could use that money to reduce the price to their players, giving them some competitive advantages over other clubs. First off better odds of going pro with their training, and a reduced price. Then other clubs will have to try to reduce their prices in order to compete with Sigma. Reduced prices opens up more opportunities for more kids to play at high levels.

Really the only reason why it isn't done in USA is because MLS would rather horde all the money themselves.

IIRC, the North Mississauga president seemed sounded surprised, almost implying that West Ham reached out to them to make the payment.

The Tottenham claim is interesting, especially since they complain that Crossfire is for-profit. If that has any weight, then the NFP clubs could really get a leg up if they get their act together.

Anyway, very murky waters. USSF and MLS appear to be blaming circumstance (similar to the Canadian-as-domestics issue) on this.

 

edit: found it - 

5:10 and onwards (he responds to questions on the subject as well).

[Kent]

And regarding Davies, I found this which says the Whitecaps did provide the solidarity fees to his youth clubs.

https://lastwordonsoccer.com/2018/07/26/alphonso-davies-transfer-highlights-ussfs-errant-ways-regarding-solidarity-payments/

"And so it came as a fresh surprise when the Whitecaps indicated that they’re indeed compensating a club Davies played for in Edmonton before he joined Vancouver. Chief operating officer Rachel Lewis was rather candid in stating the club’s position on the matter.

“FIFA has very clear rules around solidarity payments for youth development clubs,” Lewis told Jonathan Tannenwald. “And both the Whitecaps and Bayern Munich fully support them.”

The tone of that statement suggests Lewis is well-aware of the current situation at 17 of MLS’ 20 clubs regarding this issue. Because the league’s American teams and the United States Soccer Federation as a whole continue to not comply with FIFA guidelines over solidarity payments. It’s recently created quite a few legal headaches for those responsible for the status quo."

So it appears to be strictly American teams that are not paying solidarity payments, but oddly enough everything I've read is saying it's actually the MLSPU (player's union) that is against it. But if it was the MLSPU that was against it, why wouldn't that apply to the Canadian teams? Something doesn't add up.

[Kent]

And this article https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/01/sports/soccer/major-league-soccer-alphonso-davies.html mentions Larin but doesn't mention anything about solidarity fees for him.

"While these so-called solidarity payments — meant to encourage even the tiniest clubs to aid in the development of top players — are how things work for clubs in Canada and the rest of the world, it’s not how things work in the United States."

So perhaps it is based on the club doing the selling. Since Larin moved from Orlando, his youth clubs don't get payment. If he had been sold from Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver, probably his youth clubs would have gotten payment.