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Academies or Regional or The OPDL

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2 hours ago, Saviola7 said:

Clearly we need to find some game video for each competition, and score each play on quality of pass, quality of touch, decision making, etc. Evidently that's the only way to convince people who has the best players.

 

... or players can simply follow the pathway as set out by Ontario Soccer.

you cant be serious here right? 

 

opdl saac caf oasl its a mess, and the people getting hurt the most are the kids 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

Edited by 04dad

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I am completely serious. Many of the same people who complain about talent dilution and a fractured system choose alternative pathways. If all of those people chose OPDL, then the discussion would be moot wouldn't it?

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4 minutes ago, Saviola7 said:

I am completely serious. Many of the same people who complain about talent dilution and a fractured system choose alternative pathways. If all of those people chose OPDL, then the discussion would be moot wouldn't it?

Or Soccer Ontario could put some thought into putting together a viable system, rather than their projects which seem to be intended to create work for someone.

If my child is currently receiving training far superior to what is otherwise available in my city, why would I pull him out to move to an OPDL club which has been inferior to that point?  I am being very objective here, as I have been involved on both sides and would not have made the move, nor stayed where we are, otherwise.

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3 hours ago, Protega said:

realistically, the fact that a program also has girls teams, for example, does nothing to further the development of the boys teams, and vice versa

I haven't been involved in youth soccer since I was a kid playing 20+ years ago, but it seems to me that kind of a rule would be put in place so that girls soccer doesn't get brushed aside. You are probably right that it does nothing to further the development of the boys teams, but I bet it does further the development of girls teams. Maybe things have changed, in particular after the last couple olympics, but I imagine people would still prioritize developing boys soccer players over girls soccer players. Just look at the number of teams in L1O for an example. The fact that there is way more money and opportunities in men's soccer than women's soccer would of course play a huge role.

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19 hours ago, Protega said:

Or Soccer Ontario could put some thought into putting together a viable system, rather than their projects which seem to be intended to create work for someone.

If my child is currently receiving training far superior to what is otherwise available in my city, why would I pull him out to move to an OPDL club which has been inferior to that point?  I am being very objective here, as I have been involved on both sides and would not have made the move, nor stayed where we are, otherwise.

In principle, if parents avoided the academies, then all of these great coaches and TDs would find themselves out of a revenue stream and bring their greatness back to the clubs and would implement their superior training there ...  Wishful thinking on my part of course.

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Some more analysis ...

I checked the margin of victory for all league games to date. My hypothesis is that a competitive league should have few blowouts. I compared boys SAAC U14 with OPDL U14 and with CAF U13 (no U14 CAF division), year-to-date. I also threw in OYSL boys U14 from 2012.

OPDL:

a # of matches = 58

b # of more than 5 goal wins = 3

b/a = 5.17%

SAAC:

a # of matches = 52

b # of more than 5 goal wins = 9

b/a = 17.31%

CAF:

a # of matches = 10

b # of more than 5 goal wins = 2

b/a = 20%

OYSL (2012):

a # of matches = 67

b # of more than 5 goal wins = 5

b/a = 7.46%

 

OPDL seems have a consistent level of players, even more than OYSL.

Edited by Saviola7
b) turned into an emoji

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Although no OPDL teams competed in it, I would be remiss if I didn't communicate a similar analysis on the Robbie tournament this past weekend. It doesn't seem to carry the same pedigree that it used too, but still some interesting results. It seems that SAAC teams were very much encouraged to do so. Sigma even sent two teams and they rarely participate in Ontario tournaments. Anyway, the combined records (U13 - U16, WDL):

OASL: 3-2-2 (no champions)

SAAC: 41-12-20 (1 champion)

CAF: 8-0-2 (no champions)

TFC Academy: 5-1-0 (champion)

Regional: didn't bother to tally since the majority of teams fall into this category and their records are pretty much the inverse of the above (6 champions)

A division I found interesting was boys U13 that featured CAQ (CAF) and Sigma. Both teams appear to be quite strong based on their league results and fell to eventual champs (regional team) Milton.

 

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I think overall OPDL will be superior to the regional leagues, but my problem with it is that certain top clubs were excluded in favour of weaker clubs due to admin. and coaching standards. I realize we do need coaching standards, but when you dilute the level of competition by having fewer clubs from highly populated areas that traditionally are strong for weaker clubs from a saturated region (York) it brings everyone down.

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1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

I think overall OPDL will be superior to the regional leagues, but my problem with it is that certain top clubs were excluded in favour of weaker clubs due to admin. and coaching standards. I realize we do need coaching standards, but when you dilute the level of competition by having fewer clubs from highly populated areas that traditionally are strong for weaker clubs from a saturated region (York) it brings everyone down.

My hope would be that it would spur on the strong clubs that are on the outside looking in to get their good coaches accredited so that they can join the OPDL. The idea is that OPDL should be pushing clubs to get better.

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33 minutes ago, Kent said:

My hope would be that it would spur on the strong clubs that are on the outside looking in to get their good coaches accredited so that they can join the OPDL. The idea is that OPDL should be pushing clubs to get better.

This is true and i hope it happens for tge sake of elite player development in Ontario. Of course the opposite has also happened in that Vaughn Azzurri (?) were kicked out for not meeting standards.

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1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

This is true and i hope it happens for tge sake of elite player development in Ontario. Of course the opposite has also happened in that Vaughn Azzurri (?) were kicked out for not meeting standards.

Woodbridge was kicked out. Vaughan is a alive and well.

One other thing that I was reminded of when looking at some of the numbers is that very few academies offer girls programs at all ages. This may be another reason why academies don't want to join OPDL. Generally speaking, I think it's good that the requirement is kept in place (TFC notwithstanding).

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8 hours ago, Saviola7 said:

Although no OPDL teams competed in it, I would be remiss if I didn't communicate a similar analysis on the Robbie tournament this past weekend. It doesn't seem to carry the same pedigree that it used too, but still some interesting results. It seems that SAAC teams were very much encouraged to do so. Sigma even sent two teams and they rarely participate in Ontario tournaments. Anyway, the combined records (U13 - U16, WDL):

OASL: 3-2-2 (no champions)

SAAC: 41-12-20 (1 champion)

CAF: 8-0-2 (no champions)

TFC Academy: 5-1-0 (champion)

Regional: didn't bother to tally since the majority of teams fall into this category and their records are pretty much the inverse of the above (6 champions)

A division I found interesting was boys U13 that featured CAQ (CAF) and Sigma. Both teams appear to be quite strong based on their league results and fell to eventual champs (regional team) Milton.

 

I am quite familiar with caq sigma and milton for this age group

all 3 teams are very good with different style of play, at these tournaments where they have played 5 games in 3 days depth becomes a big factor.

Edited by 04dad

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5 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

What's the total now?

27.

 

Doesn't really dilute the system though. The new teams mostly are from areas not (or under) represented by OPDL. The league still has on average the best players and is the most balanced competitively in the province. Ontario will reap the benefits in the coming years.

 

And actually, the price will likely go down. More clubs will mean that the overhead is shared by more teams. Already most programs come in around 4 - 4.5K (which is comparable or cheaper than most academy programs).

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6 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

What's the total now?

The new teams in southern Ontario seem to cover markets that didn't have OPDL (or had clubs drop out, which may be telling).  There will be some dilution in Toronto, and significant dilution of talent for the existing Ottawa teams.  While the number is now at 27, it seems that a number of programs are struggling to put together the required number of teams (including a couple of the newer entries to the league).  I would be surprised if there were actually 27 clubs involved next season.

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On ‎2017‎-‎04‎-‎07 at 9:21 AM, Protega said:

coach leaving one of these

Any other rumoured clubs entering? 

 

 

 

 

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well, its tryout season again, and the waters are as clear as mud on where is it best to play

its all about the money for all these leagues

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My son is about the age where I want him to be playing under a coach who isn't his dad, 8. I will more than likely be signing up for WMSC, at least for now. They are an OPDL club and I like that. They whole organization feels a bit more organized than some of the others available in the region.

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1 minute ago, Levi Oakey said:

My son is about the age where I want him to be playing under a coach who isn't his dad, 8. I will more than likely be signing up for WMSC, at least for now. They are an OPDL club and I like that. They whole organization feels a bit more organized than some of the others available in the region.

not familiar with wmsc, i hope you find a good coach for your son, who will teach him basic fundamentals first touch etc 

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Interesting development in Eastern Ontario/Western Quebec...

https://www.eastdevelopmentleague.com/

BCN (the group that operates the "FCB Escola" programs in Canada) seems to be starting up a league for unsanctioned programs.  Interesting that the SAAC member from Kingston (which is an ORA) appears to be participating though.  Would BCN be starting something up in Toronto as well?  This really is no different that what the 8 clubs in Ottawa did in starting a rogue league, except that BCN isn't hiding the fact that it's a league.  All this has me thinking:

  • how is this any different from SAAC or CAF?  I think SAAC requires that all members are ORA's (with the exception of members who are outside of Ontario, it seems), but CAF seems to have all kinds of members.
  • FCB Escola Vancouver and FCB Escola Edmonton are SAAC members, but FCB Escola Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal are not.  This obviously makes no sense geographically, so does this mean it has something to do with threats from Ontario Soccer?  Why would it be ok to include out-of-province unsanctioned programs, but Ontario unsanctioned programs are a no-no?

In any case, the Ottawa groups listed on the league website have very weak teams (don't know much about the ones from Montreal), but a cross-border league is something that would be great for Ottawa teams if it give them access to good competition from Montreal.  And it's refreshing to see that the older age groups will play 11v11.  It's such a waste of time for teams that are playing 11v11 or even 9v9 to go back to 7v7 for the winter.

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Interesting indeed. In principle you are correct, there is little difference from SAAC and CAF. Let's see if they are competitively balanced or not. Given that academy leagues tend not to be, I suspect not.

Does SAAC require ORA? I know that many are, but I was not aware if that was a stipulation.

Note that members of CAF are actually part of the OS umbrella since they are sanctioned by the North York Soccer Association (even though most of them are based out of the west end). I believe there are teams in the CAF league that are not CAF members, but I might be wrong on that point.

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The teams from Ottawa and Gatineau are quite weak, so if the Montreal teams are at a similar level, it might be "competitively balanced", but at a low level of play.  If the Montreal teams are stronger, then it won't be as balanced, but maybe that's the carrot to draw some better teams/players from the Ottawa/Gatineau region.

I think SAAC requires ORA, but I don't know why.  But they've obviously made an exception to bring a few programs from Western Canada in - they can't be ORA, but they also don't participate in the competitions.

It would be interesting if they could find an association to accommodate them the way NYSA did with CAF.  They would still have to somehow work out the cross-border issue though.

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