Unnamed Trialist Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 As Popovich the Spurs coach said, "We are Rome". Great set of comments I thought, very well expressed. I think too that what is happening in the US is part of an imposion, maybe not cultural or even strictly economic, but in terms of empire. They are not alone however, other great powers seem bent on doing similar things. As I am all in favour of the decline and desaggregation of empires, I am fine with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 On 2016-11-12 at 1:31 PM, Mister215Guy said: MLS is considered a joke and not a proper league... Said no one for years. I don't know what onanistic outpost of denial you live in, but while that may have been true nearly twenty years ago, the ONLY people who spout that nonsense today are hyphenated-Americans (and some hyphenated-Canadians) pining for the "auld country" by watching Euro leagues early in the mornings at a bar or ethnic private club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 That sounds more like Mad Cap Mac or whatever he was called than your usual posts. Don't think it matches reality. Can think of plenty of people that follow TFC that would fit the profile of hyphenated Canadian including people that are diehard followers of top English Premiership clubs who could most easily find a reason to find fault with the playing standards compared to what they are used to watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: That sounds more like Mad Cap Mac or whatever he was called than your usual posts. Don't think it matches reality. Can think of plenty of people that follow TFC that would fit the profile of hyphenated Canadian including people that are diehard followers of top English Premiership clubs who could most easily find a reason to find fault with the playing standards compared to what they are used to watching. No one is saying the standard is equivalent to the Premiership or 1st Bundesliga but at the same time the level of play is still good and not a joke either. It is equivalent to a 2nd division in the top soccer countries or the 2nd tier of European first division leagues like Holland and Belgium but with more parity, ie. no teams as strong as the top 3 teams in such leagues but no teams as weak as the bottom table teams. No one disrespects the Eredivisie because it is not as good as the 1st Bundesliga so no one should disrespect MLS for that reason either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: ... who could most easily find a reason to find fault with the playing standards compared to what they are used to watching. Big difference between thinking MLS is not a top-ten league and thinking it is a joke. The former we can argue over a pint in a friendly way, the latter is simply nonsensical snobbery not worth discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moldy9 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Ciman started 2 games vs the Netherlands and Estonia. And that's a Belgium side that's second in Europe and 4th in the world at the moment where they can have the pick of the litter when it comes to defenders. So what's up with Giovinco not getting selected who's peaking right now? Pretty silly argument from the Italian manager I find especially when they are playing minnows Liechtenstein and a meaningless game vs Germany it would've been the best test to prove/bust their theory on Giovinco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 9 hours ago, Moldy9 said: Ciman started 2 games vs the Netherlands and Estonia. And that's a Belgium side that's second in Europe and 4th in the world at the moment where they can have the pick of the litter when it comes to defenders. So what's up with Giovinco not getting selected who's peaking right now? Pretty silly argument from the Italian manager I find especially when they are playing minnows Liechtenstein and a meaningless game vs Germany it would've been the best test to prove/bust their theory on Giovinco. Or not, precisely because you are playing a minnow and a friendly. And no really risky games until next fall. In any case Italy's big match in WCQ is vs. Spain next September, it is not like they have to prepare for something transcendental right now. I am sure if they get to the last few matches struggling, for whatever reason, and Gio is on fire, he may be considered. What I think also harms the MLS reputation are its idiosyncratic rules. Playoffs do not seem serious, it looks like a Cup; and especially, as I can see it, the way transfers happen. If you had regular and more standard transfer movement between leagues, especially up into the top ones from MLS (like a few Americans have done into EPL), then the majors would respect the value of MLS more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 If MLS were smart they'd convince FIFA to let the US have the World Club Cup, giving an MLS rep team the chance to participate as a host club. This would mean robbing it from Japan, who started it all with the old Toyota Cup. But it may be worth it just to get a host MLS club into the mix (currently the host Japanese club plays the OFC rep, this year Auckland, a few days before it all starts, to qualify for a quarter final). A slight schedule adjustment would have you win the MLS Cup and go straight into the Club Cup competition, as occurs now with the Japanese teams. Or it could be rotated, since it is yearly, or with the same sponsors but changing nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 From my understanding MLS ranks somewhere between poor and indifference across the pond. The reasons for that are It's percieved as a retirement home for has been stars who still dominate the relatively low level of play. In this case relative to European play, which is overwhelmingly true. Having the MLS All-Stars get consistenly trouced by top tier single European clubs running their backups doesn't help change that perception. MLS's refusal to pay solidarity payments for players developed by other clubs, which is apparently protected by US Anti-Trust law (so FIFA can't force the issue). This poaching has in turn lead to some clubs refusing to buy or consider American talent because they aren't about to pay MLS solidarity payments unless the player is something special. That said, that's just from random musings I've heard second hand and read about in various news articles. It could certainly be flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 MLS having a relatively low level of play in comparison to European play is only true if you are defining European play as solely being that of the big 4 leagues. Also while I do not personally like the All-Star game, the MLS All Stars have a good record against the European clubs, the only time they got trounced is in the two consecutive years 2010 and 2011 when they played a very strong Manchester United team. On the other hand the MLS won twice against Chelsea and a number of other teams. Plus the way European soccer is structured the top teams that play in the All-Star game are really all star teams themselves full of foreign stars and built for Champions League play as much as league play. 90% of the top players in most leagues are on a few top teams. Here are the results of the All-Star game: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_All-Star_Game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister215Guy Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 TFC and Montreal Impact are good clubs that deserve more credit than they deserve. Being part of MLS hurts their reputation, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, Mister215Guy said: TFC and Montreal Impact are good clubs that deserve more credit than they deserve. Being part of MLS hurts their reputation, don't you think? Nope, on both accounts. I don't agree that they are getting any less "credit" than they deserve and even if it was true how would playing in a league against weaker opposition (the only other option) earn them any more respect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 The league is constantly improving. The US was late to the academy game. Once their academies come on line and produce better players than the NCAA & Clubs, and if our academy players can play across the board soon, it's going to get even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Look guys, the reason anyone in England or Spain or Italy says, Hey, that team from Ukraine is good, or Turkey, or Austria, is if that team does well. Or if you sign someone from that team and they do great. And then, if this repeats. You play another one from the same league, then another, then hey: Turkey or Austria is a pretty good league. Respect comes from playing competitive matches vs a team or teams from a league and finding they earn respect, that is all. Or from signing from a league and it being a reliable source of players. No one in Europe has the remotest idea what league in Asia is the best, for example, and no one cares, either. Because you never play competitively against them. Same with Africa, or Concacaf. With Conmebol they just guess because some teams are famous, nothing more. Probably about 84% of die-hard European fans would say Boca and River are the best teams in Argentina, but probably 4% even knew River was demoted recently for a spell. I am a bit surprised the MLS All-Star game would be used as a barometer, it's not, and could never be. Which is why you either expand chances for MLS team to play competition vs better quality sides (Libertadores, or steal and expand the Club Cup), or gain respect by producing players transfering out and up. This latter option is in fact more feasible, since even the best case scenarios are never going to give you more than a token chance to play competitively vs. a top European club and prove your worth. Trying to find a way into Libertadores would also be a secondary option. But transferring quality is the next best option, since as anyone in Europe will tell you, hey, those Serbs and Croats are pretty good, and adapt quickly, they are great pros. Why? Because the top clubs have all had them. No one thinks the Croatia league is a powerhouse, but everyone respects Croatian soccer for producing the talent it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 And just to clarify re the MLS All Star game, there have been 12 games since they started playing upper level European teams, and MLS has won 7 of them. And in the last 5 years, they have beaten Spurs, Bayern and Chelsea. Not that I think those results are a barometer for league success, but let's not fabricate reasons why MLS isn't viewed positively. To be frank, I think some of it is simply snobbery and a lingering anti-Americanism. When MLS was founded I remember hearing some league cheerleaders proclaiming that it would be the best league in the world within a couple of decades and that America would become a world force in footy. That kind of bravado may sell well at home with the flag-wavers, but it probably doesn't generate much envy abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister215Guy Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 No, perceptions come from the truth that MLS is low quality raw sewage and Americans get everything wrong when it comes to soccer. Consider Bradley Wright Phillips, who failed in League One, is the top scorer is the exact reason others think MLS is amateur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moldy9 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 4 hours ago, Mister215Guy said: TFC and Montreal Impact are good clubs that deserve more credit than they deserve. Being part of MLS hurts their reputation, don't you think? I'd be lying if I told you that I didn't think the same regarding BWP. I for one was like "ok I know Shawn Wright Phillips but who the heck is his bro?"... did a wiki check, meh, he's alright and then... Bam! The man is opening a can of 3:16!!! So I ask myself ok is this guy just peaking at the right time in his career or is MLS like equal to div 3? As for Canadian Clubs not getting the respect they deserve I do believe that to be true internally with the MLS marketing heads. I bet we'd have more articles pumping the subway series had NY and NJ made the Eastern Final rather than TFC and IMFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 13 hours ago, Mister215Guy said: No, perceptions come from the truth that MLS is low quality raw sewage and Americans get everything wrong when it comes to soccer. Consider Bradley Wright Phillips, who failed in League One, is the top scorer is the exact reason others think MLS is amateur. But this kind of criticism is senseless really. MLS is a project tied to the development of US soccer. Without some context in the criticism including salary caps, forced parity, and a bulk of players coming from a shit development system like the NCAA I don't see what the point is. The league has very long term goals and is currently succeeding by improving in every category you can measure. It's just a different beast, and out of the 53 pro leagues in UEFA it has more upside to it than probably 47 of them. Is it better? I don't think that is the interesting question, it's where it might be going that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 15 hours ago, Moldy9 said: I'd be lying if I told you that I didn't think the same regarding BWP. I for one was like "ok I know Shawn Wright Phillips but who the heck is his bro?"... did a wiki check, meh, he's alright and then... Bam! The man is opening a can of 3:16!!! So I ask myself ok is this guy just peaking at the right time in his career or is MLS like equal to div 3? As for Canadian Clubs not getting the respect they deserve I do believe that to be true internally with the MLS marketing heads. I bet we'd have more articles pumping the subway series had NY and NJ made the Eastern Final rather than TFC and IMFC. I think the BWP phenomenon likely has a lot to do with being in the right system with the right team. You mentioned his more talented brother, well he has been playing for NYRB the last 2 years as well, and he's only scored 1 goal. So maybe that means MLS is really a high level league. There have been big name players come and not perform well, and lesser known players coming over and performing well. A one off example isn't a good indication of the level of the league. The only thing that matters right now to be honest is that MLS is behind Liga MX. If MLS wants to reach it's goals, it's next step is winning the CCL, and then winning it semi consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Feel this is worth posting here: Liga MX intested in starting a tournament against MLS teams The world respects Liga MX and Liga MX respects MLS. Think that respect will rub off the the rest of the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, Ansem said: No LOLZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 La Liga MX respects MLS money and exposure and wants a piece of it. Not their level of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister215Guy Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 On 11/21/2016 at 8:02 AM, Ansem said: La Liga MX respects MLS money and exposure and wants a piece of it. Not their level of play. The Canadian clubs are good enough to play against Liga MX. The American ones are way inferior. MLS clubs won't be good enough for Mexico's 3rd division otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 http://uproxx.com/sports/david-villa-interview-mls-new-york-city-football-club/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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