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Should Canada have 2 Champions League births?


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I believe we should be awarded an extra spot. Our NASL teams are better than some teams coming out of the Central American countries. Will we ever have a second spot?

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I think if the CPL gets up and running and shows its both sustainable and to a decent standard that is the obvious choice and case for a second spot. The Voyageurs Cup is rightfully the obvious spot for one berth - Having the NASL/MLS - Maybe USL involvement. 

It is utter madness a Canadian team couldn't get in by winning the MLS. But that isn't going to change anytime soon or later.

 

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I don't think we deserve a second spot when we have 5 pro clubs. I do think that results should factor in the awarding of CCL spots more, but remind me where the Whitecaps finished in their group? Oh yes dead last. So, how come Vancouver is worse than Olimpia from Honduras? Don't give me the oh they don't care, because if that's the reason, why should we even ask for a second when the first one doesn't care?

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Surely past performances in the competition should have some involvement in determining the allocation of berths.It's really the only fair way of doing things, yet I rarely here a shout for a coefficient or something similar to UEFA.

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Not having our own national league is the biggest hinderance to have another slot for the CCL. We can't ask for a second division with only two Canadian teams to be awarded a spot for us because we don't have a league of our own... Think about how desperate that sounds!

We should not be thinking like this at all, we simply just need our own league to get our own two spots. One for the V-Cup one for the league winner. 

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34 minutes ago, Pqhbv said:

Not having our own national league is the biggest hinderance to have another slot for the CCL. We can't ask for a second division with only two Canadian teams to be awarded a spot for us because we don't have a league of our own... Think about how desperate that sounds!

We should not be thinking like this at all, we simply just need our own league to get our own two spots. One for the V-Cup one for the league winner. 

league winner would not give a borth as the MLS teams would be more deserving.

 

9 hours ago, Blackdude said:

I don't think we deserve a second spot when we have 5 pro clubs. I do think that results should factor in the awarding of CCL spots more, but remind me where the Whitecaps finished in their group? Oh yes dead last. So, how come Vancouver is worse than Olimpia from Honduras? Don't give me the oh they don't care, because if that's the reason, why should we even ask for a second when the first one doesn't care?

Monchengladbach and Lyon both finished last in their groups. Does that mean the number of German and French teams should be reduced in favour of Belgian and Russian teams? Montreal actually made it to the finals. What was the farthest a Central American team has made it?

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Isn't there a formula/co-efficient based on performance that is used for spots in UEFA spots like C2SKi said?  If the 1 team we send has success regularly maybe a qualifying round against poor performing countries with 2 auto spots is needed.  If Panama or El Salvador (for example) sends cupcakes every year, why give them 2 auto spots?  Even if we only have 5 clubs, if our 2 tops clubs are head and shoulders above other countries there should be a mechanism to get at least a qualifying game so we could get another deserving club in.  Now whether our MLS clubs even want to be bothered with the CCL is another question.  

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2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

 Now whether our MLS clubs even want to be bothered with the CCL is another question.  

Not really a question. They have entered and promoted the heck out of it when they progressed.

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7 hours ago, canta15 said:

league winner would not give a borth as the MLS teams would be more deserving.

 

Monchengladbach and Lyon both finished last in their groups. Does that mean the number of German and French teams should be reduced in favour of Belgian and Russian teams? Montreal actually made it to the finals. What was the farthest a Central American team has made it?

Actually, uh, yes. If that is the trend, then that is the consequence. If you have a proper system of coefficients, accumulated over years like UEFA's, then it is what should happen.

My opinion is that we should get our act together, get more teams involved in the qualifying process (Voyageurs Cup), then start talking about this question.

 

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10 hours ago, canta15 said:

league winner would not give a borth as the MLS teams would be more deserving.

I think MLS teams would have a pretty good chance at the V-cup where our one spot is competed for presently. If we had our own league we would be able to talk about having two spots, and I seriously doubt they would be distributed to the winner of the V-cup and the next highest seeded Canadian MLS cup... 

That would just not be cool... At all

Neither would giving it to an NASL team just because you think they deserve it. If the CPL comes to be Ottawa is supposed to join and Edmonton would be the only one left. So either I don't get what your getting at with the original question, or you just really want an NASL team to compete in the CCL.

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There is some merit to saying we don't deserve another spot with only 5 teams in the competition but if the Voyageurs Cup expands to include the provincial league winners as it is supposed to (and CPL teams if that league ever comes to fruition) then that argument loses validity and we would deserve more spots if our results warrant it like they do presently.

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5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Actually, uh, yes. If that is the trend, then that is the consequence. If you have a proper system of coefficients, accumulated over years like UEFA's, then it is what should happen.

My opinion is that we should get our act together, get more teams involved in the qualifying process (Voyageurs Cup), then start talking about this question.

 

I was referring to groups of this year and now if a club underperforms one year it should not be a reflection of its strength as a whole. That is why the coefficent weights a team on its 5 years it European competition not 1.

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2 hours ago, Pqhbv said:

I think MLS teams would have a pretty good chance at the V-cup where our one spot is competed for presently. If we had our own league we would be able to talk about having two spots, and I seriously doubt they would be distributed to the winner of the V-cup and the next highest seeded Canadian MLS cup... 

That would just not be cool... At all

Neither would giving it to an NASL team just because you think they deserve it. If the CPL comes to be Ottawa is supposed to join and Edmonton would be the only one left. So either I don't get what your getting at with the original question, or you just really want an NASL team to compete in the CCL.

I'm saying that the CPL would not be given a Champions league birth because the MLS teams are far superior in strength and more deservng.

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With 5 teams and no professional league of our own? Heck no. If I'm any Central American country with a proper league pyramid, I'd cry foul. Everyone gets a berth is fine, but extra berths are a reward for supporting and growing the game and adhering to FIFA rules, regs and structure.

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11 hours ago, Grizzly said:

There is some merit to saying we don't deserve another spot with only 5 teams in the competition but if the Voyageurs Cup expands to include the provincial league winners as it is supposed to (and CPL teams if that league ever comes to fruition) then that argument loses validity and we would deserve more spots if our results warrant it like they do presently.

This is basic. The moment you have, for example, regional playoffs in the Cup, and you are involving dozens of teams in the process, you can talk about a wide base. Even if it only means two matches for some teams. At least it has the appearance of a more complex qualification procedure, which is what you'd need to argue your point before Concacaf.

That and decent results in the Conca-Champions itself.

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The other issue, which I think is a valid complaint Mexico has raised with us, is how many Canadians are actually playing in our berths in the CONCAAF Champion's league? Why should Canada get an extra berth if our clubs aren't fielding Canadians.

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14 hours ago, -Hammer- said:

With 5 teams and no professional league of our own? Heck no. If I'm any Central American country with a proper league pyramid, I'd cry foul. Everyone gets a berth is fine, but extra berths are a reward for supporting and growing the game and adhering to FIFA rules, regs and structure.

Not saying the conclusion is wrong (that 5 teams shouldn't have access to more than one berth) but I am not sure about the cited rationale.  It is my understanding that spots in the UEFA Champion's League are doled out on the basis of performances in the European club tourneys, not on support for the game, depth of structure, fair play metrics, etc.

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5 hours ago, -Hammer- said:

The other issue, which I think is a valid complaint Mexico has raised with us, is how many Canadians are actually playing in our berths in the CONCAAF Champion's league? Why should Canada get an extra berth if our clubs aren't fielding Canadians.

Why does the # of Canadians matter about how many births we get. If a nation's teams perform in intercontinental tournaments, it does not matter if they have a certain amount of home based players on their team.

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1 hour ago, grande said:

Awhile back on reddit, someone calculated what the "CONCACAF Coefficient" should be.

Surprise surprise, by that metric, Canada deserves one spot.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19YBaxQ3lFU8I8zhdmMwoGM_cT6S9YNJw-6DOoCEGc3Y/edit#gid=2

How the hell is he calculating them because his points system seems idiotic. For example in the year the Impact went to the final Canada only gets 19 points, 3 more points than Guatemala with 16 yet even in the group stage the the two Guatemalan teams combined only had 1 more point than the Impact did alone and neither advanced from their group. And he gives the Americans 42 points that year even though only 1 US team advanced from the group stage and it got eliminated in the next round. For one thing it does not seem like he is dividing the points total by number of teams which is pretty much rule number 1 in figuring out a coefficient. Next rule is teams get more points for results in higher rounds. There is something wrong/stupid with his system.

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11 hours ago, Grizzly said:

How the hell is he calculating them because his points system seems idiotic. For example in the year the Impact went to the final Canada only gets 19 points, 3 more points than Guatemala with 16 yet even in the group stage the the two Guatemalan teams combined only had 1 more point than the Impact did alone and neither advanced from their group. And he gives the Americans 42 points that year even though only 1 US team advanced from the group stage and it got eliminated in the next round. For one thing it does not seem like he is dividing the points total by number of teams which is pretty much rule number 1 in figuring out a coefficient. Next rule is teams get more points for results in higher rounds. There is something wrong/stupid with his system.

One more reason to repeal NAFTA, lol!!

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