Detroit

[Rheo]

This is interesting, http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/2859280/mls-expansion-in-detroit--detroit-pistons-and-cavaliers-owners-teaming-up

Natural rival for Toronto plus being in Windsor it could be nice to have access to MLS and international games.  

At the same time really hope it doesn't overtake Detroit City FC.  Went to my first DCFC game in Windsor on the weekend and they have something special going on there.  Great grassroots from what I've read with the fundraising for the new stadium and the supporters I met from the Northern Guard were amazing folks.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Bring back the Express.

[Keegan]

17 hours ago, Rheo said:

This is interesting, http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/2859280/mls-expansion-in-detroit--detroit-pistons-and-cavaliers-owners-teaming-up

Natural rival for Toronto plus being in Windsor it could be nice to have access to MLS and international games.  

At the same time really hope it doesn't overtake Detroit City FC.  Went to my first DCFC game in Windsor on the weekend and they have something special going on there.  Great grassroots from what I've read with the fundraising for the new stadium and the supporters I met from the Northern Guard were amazing folks.

I'm sure that's the reason they're interested in the first place.  Detroit has one of the best supporters groups so they think that will translate as it has with every other city (and they're probably not wrong to an extent).  The problem/irony though is that their fans do many things that the MLS regime wouldn't allow.  

 

[Rheo]

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

I'm sure that's the reason they're interested in the first place.  Detroit has one of the best supporters groups so they think that will translate as it has with every other city (and they're probably not wrong to an extent).  The problem/irony though is that their fans do many things that the MLS regime wouldn't allow.  

 

They're very wary of MLS, definitely not naive.  I bet Gores and Gilbert just assume they'll flock over but from what I've been reading from members I'd expect 50/50 at best.

[red card]

Detroit supporters see the MLS as a turd you don't want to consume:

We hesitate to even call it a league and to call collections of laundry that play in it clubs since it's one company that holds intramural matches between teams of its employees. The quality of MLS is frankly crap when compared to other top national leagues and that's in part because it's giving a third of its tiny payroll to just a dozen over the hill Europeans. We'll support lower quality soccer played by passionate amateurs who want to do their best for us but not from retirement tour EPL rejects. So, when we're asked if we'll pay extra for supporter section tickets to watch bad soccer before we're arbitrarily policed and banned by team reps, we decline the honor. Just because it's the top league doesn't mean it's actually worthwhile and settling for MLS because you think it's the best you can get just means you'll never get anything better. The biggest and best smelling turd on the buffet is still a turd you shouldn't consume.

http://thebiglead.com/2016/05/02/mls-to-detroit-already-facing-battle-with-soccer-hipsters-county-officials/

[Macksam]

11 hours ago, red card said:

Detroit supporters see the MLS as a turd you don't want to consume:

We hesitate to even call it a league and to call collections of laundry that play in it clubs since it's one company that holds intramural matches between teams of its employees. The quality of MLS is frankly crap when compared to other top national leagues and that's in part because it's giving a third of its tiny payroll to just a dozen over the hill Europeans. We'll support lower quality soccer played by passionate amateurs who want to do their best for us but not from retirement tour EPL rejects. So, when we're asked if we'll pay extra for supporter section tickets to watch bad soccer before we're arbitrarily policed and banned by team reps, we decline the honor. Just because it's the top league doesn't mean it's actually worthwhile and settling for MLS because you think it's the best you can get just means you'll never get anything better. The biggest and best smelling turd on the buffet is still a turn you shouldn't consume.

http://thebiglead.com/2016/05/02/mls-to-detroit-already-facing-battle-with-soccer-hipsters-county-officials/

Lol, their criticism of the league matches my own 100%. You can't have a functional team where one player makes $7,000,000 (especially an undeserving American soccer player...no American player is good enough to even command $2,000,000) next to someone who's living close to the poverty line. We need the Cosmos to finally get their stadium deal done so they can up the ante and drive a knife through MLS' business model, eventually forcing this bull shit league to change for the better.

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 hours ago, red card said:

Detroit supporters see the MLS as a turd you don't want to consume:

We hesitate to even call it a league and to call collections of laundry that play in it clubs since it's one company that holds intramural matches between teams of its employees. The quality of MLS is frankly crap when compared to other top national leagues and that's in part because it's giving a third of its tiny payroll to just a dozen over the hill Europeans. We'll support lower quality soccer played by passionate amateurs who want to do their best for us but not from retirement tour EPL rejects. So, when we're asked if we'll pay extra for supporter section tickets to watch bad soccer before we're arbitrarily policed and banned by team reps, we decline the honor. Just because it's the top league doesn't mean it's actually worthwhile and settling for MLS because you think it's the best you can get just means you'll never get anything better. The biggest and best smelling turd on the buffet is still a turn you shouldn't consume.

http://thebiglead.com/2016/05/02/mls-to-detroit-already-facing-battle-with-soccer-hipsters-county-officials/

 

[mpg_29]

On 5/4/2016 at 2:01 AM, Macksam said:

Lol, their criticism of the league matches my own 100%. You can't have a functional team where one player makes $7,000,000 (especially an undeserving American soccer player...no American player is good enough to even command $2,000,000) next to someone who's living close to the poverty line. We need the Cosmos to finally get their stadium deal done so they can up the ante and drive a knife through MLS' business model, eventually forcing this bull shit league to change for the better.

It's a bad system independent of the nationality of the player.  The disparity in quality between the DP's (especially the European/South American DP's) and other players is laughable and frustrating when you watch it.  Giovinco is playing with some players that aren't making much more than a school teacher... MLS needs to phase out the DP system even if it takes a few years. Raise the team salary cap to compensate.  It's only at $3.5 million now.  Should be at least double that.

The MLS saw that by allowing teams allowing to sign 1 or 2 big players it would be a way to grow the popularity of the league. And arguably they have done that.  My problem is now that the league has grown in popularity they are not doing anything to ensure and grow the quality of the soccer.

[Keegan]

Nice accurate post by the Northern Guard but let's be honest.  It was clearly written by a hardcore voicing the agenda of a minority on stage.  If MLS comes it will swallow up over half of their supporters group and it will no longer be the niche thing people want to go see for "the crazies" because MLS will be the niche they spend their money on with a new team and new DP stars.  

MLS is bs with their hypocritical advertising and salary structure, it's definitely a semi-scam but it could be worse... at least we can drink in the stands unlike the UK.  

I have hope that in the future the salaries are going to level out in MLS (somewhat, of course you will always have your Ronaldos/Messis on insane $).  I think with better American/Canadian players coming through they are going to eventually have to start giving these guys legitimate money to STAY, not just to come back.  There's no reason a guy like Larin should make 1/20th of Altidore's salary with no other options.  

[shermanator]

MLS' single entity system worked until the last few years as it kept league costs down and and sustainable to the point where the product was solid enough to survive. However, in trying to increase the quality of the product since Beckham arrived, they've made a convoluted system of rules that I don't think anyone actually understands. Right of first refusal, trading international spots, GAM, TAM, WHAM, BAM, NO MORE MA'AM.

The league is growing only by capitalizing on stealing successful clubs from lower leagues (Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Montreal, Orlando, Minnesota, and so on), and this process is going to eventually kill lower division soccer altogether. Because once the Cincinnati's of the world realize there's no MLS in their future they won't be drawing 20K to USL games.

Personally, I like that there's parity in the league, but it's time that MLS either drastically raises the salary cap, or gets rid of it altogether. If MLS wants to play with the big boys it's time to adopt the model other leagues use, for better or worse.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

Nice accurate post by the Northern Guard but let's be honest.  It was clearly written by a hardcore voicing the agenda of a minority on stage.  If MLS comes it will swallow up over half of their supporters group and it will no longer be the niche thing people want to go see for "the crazies" because MLS will be the niche they spend their money on with a new team and new DP stars.  

The hard core of Detroit City's fans are such a small slice of the potential market for tickets that MLS does not even need to think about them.  If MLS comes, it will attract a much wider fan base, and it will take some of Detroit City's fans too.  By being hyperlocal can DCFC survive?  I think it's possible. But it will make their journey more difficult, and moving up to a higher level will be out of the question.

Jason

 

[Free kick]

11 hours ago, Jason said:

The hard core of Detroit City's fans are such a small slice of the potential market for tickets that MLS does not even need to think about them.  If MLS comes, it will attract a much wider fan base, and it will take some of Detroit City's fans too.  By being hyperlocal can DCFC survive?  I think it's possible. But it will make their journey more difficult, and moving up to a higher level will be out of the question.

Jason

 

You hit it on the nose.  There was 30k fans at BMO fields last saturday.   Thats all that counts.

There will always be some counter culture types and they will always have some fair points (ie.: salary disparity,  single entity,  quotas..etc etc.) to raise.   But at the end of the day,   If you drawing 3k pair of eyeballs as opposed 30k, you cant invest in good coaches, player developement and provide the environment for development to the same extent.  

So who are you better off with, if you are looking at things in the bigger picture.  

This is no different than the corner store with 2-3 employees who complains about the walmart down the street that has 50-100 employees.  

 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Free kick said:

You hit it on the nose.  There was 30k fans at BMO fields last saturday.   Thats all that counts.

There will always be some counter culture types and they will always have some fair points (ie.: salary disparity,  single entity,  quotas..etc etc.) to raise.   But at the end of the day,   If you drawing 3k pair of eyeballs as opposed 30k, you cant invest in good coaches, player developement and provide the environment for development to the same extent.  

So who are you better off with, if you are looking at things in the bigger picture.  

This is no different than the corner store with 2-3 employees who complains about the walmart down the street that has 50-100 employees.  

 

Sometimes the corner store is creative finds a niche and a way to survive and even thrive, even though the walmart is nearby.  Some people want a different kind of experience and are willing to go to the corner store.  The question is once the walmart shows up how do you stay relevant to those who want that kind of experience.  Fortunately, the corner store can make it with a much smaller volume of people than the walmart.  It's often a tougher road, and it makes it really tough to grow beyond your niche, but it's possible..

Jason

[shamrock]

You can't buy sympathy, could you imagine Fc Edmonton having started with that 3k fanbase? Were would they be right now, 5-6k? I just love what those guys are doing and surely I'm not the only one.

[One American]

15 hours ago, shermanator said:

MLS' single entity system worked until the last few years as it kept league costs down and and sustainable to the point where the product was solid enough to survive. However, in trying to increase the quality of the product since Beckham arrived, they've made a convoluted system of rules that I don't think anyone actually understands. Right of first refusal, trading international spots, GAM, TAM, WHAM, BAM, NO MORE MA'AM.

The league is growing only by capitalizing on stealing successful clubs from lower leagues (Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Montreal, Orlando, Minnesota, and so on), and this process is going to eventually kill lower division soccer altogether. Because once the Cincinnati's of the world realize there's no MLS in their future they won't be drawing 20K to USL games.

Personally, I like that there's parity in the league, but it's time that MLS either drastically raises the salary cap, or gets rid of it altogether. If MLS wants to play with the big boys it's time to adopt the model other leagues use, for better or worse.

My perception is that Garber and Company have been trying to keep the peace among the owners, seemingly divided by those who want to spend and grow and those who want to profit by cost containment. So the growth group has won the DP additions. But the cost containers have been humored by first all of these financial lassos on the spenders (TAM, etc.) that keep parity and the peace. And while the spenders get to spend on DPs, the cost containers got to negotiate the salary deal in collective bargaining. So you ended up with a small rise in the salary structure. But by trying to keep the peace, and not choose between sides, MLS has created a woefully inequitable system.  

 

I don't see any evidence of MLS crushing smaller leagues. It seems like those minor league soccer is thriving at the moment. Detroit is indisputably a major league market. 

[Rheo]

I've had only one experience with DCFC and it was amazing.  Something I haven't felt since the first time I saw a game with the Voyageurs.  And from what I've seen and read I don't think the presence of an MLS team would hurt it too much.  No doubt that there would be some loss to the big shiny new team but they have something special going on there.  

Besides then I can see TFC locally and cheer against the big evil Detroit team lol

[xcalibre]

the Detroit supporters have a good point about MLS, but you have to feel a degree of their antipathy comes from a sense of wanting to preserve the cool hipster-niche of supporting a lower division club more than anything