Shamit Shome

[Havoc88]

29 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

No one is mentioning that the vast majority did their senior year and are now drafted, they are almost all older than him. 

Apart from this debate about where he should have gone in the draft, I personally find it pathetic that you could start your pro career at 22, it is totally childish. Nowhere in the world are you getting all excited about a pro career at that age. I know there are players who do in fact make the step and do well, quite a few in fact, but it is still a bit pathetic. Nowhere else in the world does a person start playng pro soccer so late. All power to Shome to play pro while studying, and engineering at that, and probably not a fake curriculum made up for him like at the US liberal arts schools.

Let's put this into a different perspective. Is it that outrageous for a player to start making their impact in a top flight at 22? or 24? or 26? It happens all the time. Was it pathetic that Rickie Lambert was playing at Stockport County or Jay DeMerrit was at Northwood when they were 23? I would think most would never imagine (or get excited) either would play in the Premiership at any point in their careers at that point. 

On topic - I'm not surprised Shome fell that far. I recall when Plata was at the combine, had a great showing and was by far the most technically proficient player available, yet was drafted 49th. In many instances, this is the first time most people are seeing these players and while they might perform well over a couple of days, being foreign doesn't help the situation and I honestly think most teams will just defer to whatever NCAA coaches or pundits tell them are the best pick to take.

[Guest]

Don't forget about Vardy

[yothat]

10 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

I wish Shome all the best but it was enjoyable watching Steve Sandor meltdown on Twitter as Shome slipped. Shome is apparently the Gretzky of soccer and all MLS teams are idiots for not taking him first overall or whatever.

Steven Sandor does sensationalize anything he believes when it comes to soccer. love his website and his work on canadian soccer. just have a different opinion on lots of tweets.

[shamrock]

2 hours ago, Havoc88 said:

On topic - I'm not surprised Shome fell that far. I recall when Plata was at the combine, had a great showing and was by far the most technically proficient player available, yet was drafted 49th. In many instances, this is the first time most people are seeing these players and while they might perform well over a couple of days, being foreign doesn't help the situation and I honestly think most teams will just defer to whatever NCAA coaches or pundits tell them are the best pick to take.

I think you're right but it's insane. You'd think teams would know who they want before combine...

I must say I agree with Sandor in that he's more valuable than a 41st pick. But he's not flashy so probably wouldn't notice him in that combine. Another factor could be that he is off season and therefore less fit than the others. Also, he's not a big man, which is deceptive (you can't knock him off the ball). 

But he's ready to contribute from the start. I honestly don't think there's a better midfield player available. But hey now he's got no pressure, he can just use his time to convince his trainers in Montreal. And why would anyone be upset with this? Kyle Bekker had 16 appearances for them in 2016, I'd be highly surprised he Shome won't get to that number this season. Also, the Impact have shown that they are loyal to the players they like, some have been there from the start.  

[Grizzly]

I am happy the Impact got him and at a bargain in the late 2nd round. I haven't watched a lot of him but seems to be a solid but not flashy player and nothing wrong with that. As others have mentioned he is 2 to 3 years younger than the NCAA picks and has already played at a higher level than most of them have. This draft is a real crap shoot and while there are a few guys like Larin that go on to be star players there are a lot of top 1st round picks that don't even turn out to be great USL players. Sometimes the guys from the smaller colleges and leagues also surprise. Shome seems to show a lot of potential and if he doesn't stick after training camp I hope we loan him back to FCE for the season though if they feel he is close and might be recalled if needed maybe Ottawa would be a better choice. The Impact have a tradition of lower round picks or end of 1st round picks turning out better than when we have an early first round pick so hopefully Shome will continue that trend. We haven't had even a decent attacking central mid in years and good ones are expensive so if we could bring up a domestic one relatively cheap that would be a great bonus for both us and the national team. I certainly hope we will sign a more accomplished CAM this offseason but having a backup would be great and given we have never had a good CAM maybe having a young one in the system would not be bad if we don't sign one. And if he doesn't work out it is only a 2nd round pick in a draft where most 1st round picks don't amount to much.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Grizzly

[Macksam]

10 hours ago, Havoc88 said:

Let's put this into a different perspective. Is it that outrageous for a player to start making their impact in a top flight at 22? or 24? or 26? It happens all the time. Was it pathetic that Rickie Lambert was playing at Stockport County or Jay DeMerrit was at Northwood when they were 23? I would think most would never imagine (or get excited) either would play in the Premiership at any point in their careers at that point. 

On topic - I'm not surprised Shome fell that far. I recall when Plata was at the combine, had a great showing and was by far the most technically proficient player available, yet was drafted 49th. In many instances, this is the first time most people are seeing these players and while they might perform well over a couple of days, being foreign doesn't help the situation and I honestly think most teams will just defer to whatever NCAA coaches or pundits tell them are the best pick to take.

Making an impact and starting your professional career are different though. It worked alright for Jay Demerit but Ricky Lambert and Jamie Vardy didn't start professionally in their 20s even if they hit their stride and signed on with bigger clubs later in their careers.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Macksam

[shamrock]

Yeah but those are exceptions really. 

 

Fc Edmonton last season was very hard to beat, they were 3rd overall in a competition with some very solid sides. And he was not hopping along, he was a key player in that team. During the season, the only one in that line-up who could be successfully replaced was Eddy Edward.

Guys here talking shit about Miller being some old-school hoofball coach, but yet he played tiny midfielders as Shome and Corea together continuously. I expect Shome to surprise in Quebec, he has some traits that can't be taught. I also believe strongly that he will play better among better players, and that the Impact indeed took a steal at that draft. 

[Obinna]

43 minutes ago, shamrock said:

Yeah but those are exceptions really. 

 

Fc Edmonton last season was very hard to beat, they were 3rd overall in a competition with some very solid sides. And he was not hopping along, he was a key player in that team. During the season, the only one in that line-up who could be successfully replaced was Eddy Edward.

Guys here talking shit about Miller being some old-school hoofball coach, but yet he played tiny midfielders as Shome and Corea together continuously. I expect Shome to surprise in Quebec, he has some traits that can't be taught. I also believe strongly that he will play better among better players, and that the Impact indeed took a steal at that draft. 

This kind of bothers me to. I once played against a Miller-coached team called Abbotsford Mariners at the National Club Championships. They played anything but hoofball. Compared to us, their players were excellent technically and their movement on the ball was incredible. Sometimes as a coach you must play the hand you're dealt, and if that requires you to play hoof-ball, than so be it.

[rob.notenboom]

18 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

I agree. Sandor's is the most tedious, inane and jingoistic of the major commentators on the sport in this country. I'm sure he works hard but that that's not correlated with insight or quality. How valuable for the Canadian game was his boosting and cheerleading of FC Montreal via his 'Canadian player minutes scorecard' this summer when anyone with half a brain could see what a fiasco that team was? Do you honestly believe, as Sandor apparently does, that Shome is too technically gifted for every single MLS front office to properly evaluate?

Ignore my point and reiterate your own. Nice chatting with you. 

[RS]

15 hours ago, Havoc88 said:

I'm not surprised Shome fell that far. I recall when Plata was at the combine, had a great showing and was by far the most technically proficient player available, yet was drafted 49th. 

In Plata's case, he was an international player with a relatively large transfer fee attached to him (TFC paid somewhere around $500k). That scared off a lot of teams.

[Keegan]

6 hours ago, RS said:

In Plata's case, he was an international player with a relatively large transfer fee attached to him (TFC paid somewhere around $500k). That scared off a lot of teams.

He was on loan first IIRC and then TFC paid that price when they/MLS decided to buy him.  So basically if you weren't paying that you were drafting a loan player, which was still probably a better option than most picks ahead of him seeing as he had already played pro at a relatively big club.  

[shermanator]

Steven Sandor did a recent interview with Shome on his combine / draft experience.

http://the11.ca/shome-says-his-superdraft-slide-will-only-serve-as-motivation-to-make-an-impression-with-the-impact/

“It was, obviously, disappointing on how the draft worked out but, luckily, I had my dad with me,” Shome said. “And we talked about how it doesn’t matter where you’re picked, it’s about making an impression once you get to camp. So, really, this will be motivation for me.”

...

And then there’s the combine. Every year, MLS puts what it identifies as the top prospects into a series of games. Issue is that these players have never played with each other before. Shome said that his combine squad (the aptly named Team Chaos) had just one 30-minute training session — which really was nothing more than a kickabout — before being put into a game situation. To play with absolute strangers, to play what basically amounts to a pick-up game for  all the marbles, that’s tough on all the prospects.

“It was a good experience to go through it all, but it wasn’t amazing or anything,” said Shome.

[Complete Homer]

Yeesh. Less than glowing

[shamrock]

Yeah but seriously, what's the point of this Combine? He's absolutely right, he could easily be judged by watching the 1731 minutes he played last season, battling seasoned pro's. Luckily somebody at MLS headquarters did so he could sign him that GA contract. 

Edit: Oops, should have read it first. Canada Soccer deserves the credit. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by shamrock

[Bison44]

The point of the combine is MLS trying to emulate "BUZZ" around their draft like the NFL does.  Tons of self promotion and feigned excitement.  When in reality any fan can tell you how few of these kids ever make a roster let alone become a star.  Remember last year when all those teams just passed on their 3 and 4th round picks??  Team management knows that the draft is not where to look for building a team.  Not when you can get good youngsters out of your academy at 18, veterans out of central/south america for small transfers, and sign big DP's from anywhere in the world.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 1/15/2017 at 4:52 AM, Macksam said:

QFT

This a 10000 times.

Yeah, I agree,  it is exponentially pathetic.

I think a possible Canadian solution to consider would be to develop the high school game across the country. It has the benefit of not being pay to play (minus uniform costs), the best talent will get chosen, a promotion/relegation system can be easily implemented in the more populous regions and it involves the age groups where 11 on 11 should start. 

Most kids wouldn't get overlooked considering they all should be going to high school.

Now, getting a uniform system across the country will take some effort to implement.

Canada being a country that quite enjoys junior hockey, it would make sense to develop junior soccer. True, some may say, the club structure is too bent on money-making and not providing true quality, with a few exceptions. But the day we pit the best clubs against each other, and some train to win and dominate and others pick their butts and the players tire of the mediocrity, then we'll be getting somewhere. 

As for high school, truth is it would be the least expensive team program to run, but we are lacking the weather conditions for anything more than a four month season in some parts. Can't talk about futsal as it is a different sport, and only really useful for development in pre-teen age, by the time you are teen you need to play on a bigger pitch. That said, it always surprised me that BC schools spent more time trying to win provincial basketball than soccer.

[shamrock]

13 hours ago, Bison44 said:

The point of the combine is MLS trying to emulate "BUZZ" around their draft like the NFL does.  Tons of self promotion and feigned excitement.  When in reality any fan can tell you how few of these kids ever make a roster let alone become a star.  Remember last year when all those teams just passed on their 3 and 4th round picks??  Team management knows that the draft is not where to look for building a team.  Not when you can get good youngsters out of your academy at 18, veterans out of central/south america for small transfers, and sign big DP's from anywhere in the world.  

Yeah I get the intention, but I think it's bizar that coaches and / or scouting treat it as something else. If you judge a player purely (or even partly) on his Combine-performances, you are in the wrong line of work. Actually I love how TFC went about it, looking for a CB and once they got him, leave the circus all together.

[Dub Narcotic]

MLS minutes played correlate quite highly with draft position, suggesting that the front offices are actually quite good at evaluating talent in the draft process. Shome and Reid were no doubt hurt by their very late entry into the draft when most teams had already built up their draft boards.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

MLS minutes played correlate quite highly with draft position, suggesting that the front offices are actually quite good at evaluating talent in the draft process. Shome and Reid were no doubt hurt by their very late entry into the draft when most teams had already built up their draft boards.

As I suggested earlier--don't you think they were also hurt by being amongst the youngest players in the draft as well? With Reid, I believe, the youngest by far? In both cases you are faced with the question of readiness due to age, while in all the others at least age is not a factor.

[Dub Narcotic]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

As I suggested earlier--don't you think they were also hurt by being amongst the youngest players in the draft as well? With Reid, I believe, the youngest by far? In both cases you are faced with the question of readiness due to age, while in all the others at least age is not a factor.

Kind of. Younger players are actually usually the highest drafted, as they are the cap-exempt GA signings and everyone recognizes that being a great player in a league at 20 is much more impressive than the same feat at 22.

I would have taken Reid, especially, and Shome, much earlier, in any case for most teams, precisely because of their age. Unless someone really good falls to your pick, you might as well swing for the fences around pick ten or fifteen or so. You can sign somebody more proven for free from USL or NASL relative to the fringe roster player you are expecting at those levels and with the USL partnership you can easily get playing time for younger players if they are not quite ready.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Good thing Shome wasn't amongst those cut from the squad before they travel down to Panama. Sandor would have had a full meltdown! 

Best of luck to Shome and our U-20s!

Edited January 17, 2017 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Complete Homer]

It's entirely possible that most teams had done their scouting and decided their strategy before the Canadian GA deal was even announced. I doubt the MLS scouting departments are particularly large, so Shome and Reid probably had a couple skirmishes at the combine to convince clubs to throw out their draft strategy, and just didn't show enough in that tiny window

 

[Obinna]

4 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

It's entirely possible that most teams had done their scouting and decided their strategy before the Canadian GA deal was even announced. I doubt the MLS scouting departments are particularly large, so Shome and Reid probably had a couple skirmishes at the combine to convince clubs to throw out their draft strategy, and just didn't show enough in that tiny window

 

I suspect this as well. I don't even know how much you can take away from a combine for a sport like soccer. Sure, the absolute studs are going to shine, but the nature of soccer is such that some players will do all the little simple things right without standing out. These guys don't stand out in a good way, but I imagine it's hard to identify these quiet yet effective types at a combine of all places.

I haven't seen Shome play but from what I read it sounds like he fits into this category.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Obinna

[Dub Narcotic]

Steven Sandor has a piece up right now saying that Shome was hurt during the combine but felt he had to take part. That's why he's out of the U-20 camp as well.

[shermanator]

I wonder if that's one of the reasons why he struggled at the combine? Works in Montreal's favour in the end.