Canada vs El Salvador Sept 6th in Vancouver WCQ

[BearcatSA]

6 minutes ago, Soju said:

Edmonton didn't get us that draw all by its lonesome, very well taken goals by Gerba and Radz did. No one in this Canada team is clinical enough or confident enough in a Canadian shirt to smash in a goal like Gerba's against Mexico. That Canada team had Mexico shook and nearly put them away in the second half with Stalteri's cannon off the crossbar. This Canada team has no one shook ever, because its coach has turned it into a goddamn punching bag.

A match which, interestingly enough, featured no JDG, DeRo, or Hutch but rather Harmse and Pozniak included in the midfield starters alongside Bernier and Stalteri. 

[The Beaver]

Just got back from the game. More than 20,000 announced, most of those wearing RED!!

Officiating was atrocious, especially the assistant on our near side. I know this is going to be a shock, but holy crap CONCACAF has the worst officials in the freaking universe. Embarrassing,

Guys played their asses off and should have had two or three more goals, for sure. Sad to think this might be Hutch's last game for us. 

Not that I should have been surprise--I've been following the MNT for far too long--but the Salvadoran players are chippy, cheap little bastards, aren't they? Dirty little fuc.kers. But they will get their just rewards: tomorrow they fly back to shi.tty El Salvador.

Edgar must start up front for the Caps! (Kidding)

Floro must go. But we also need a lot more talent. 

 

 

[The Beaver]

11 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

What's more frustrating for me is that this opponent wasn't very good.  I didn't see the first match but based on what I saw for most of the game tonight as well as the GC match last year, we should have owned these guys.  

Yup, not getting the win in El Salvador has come back to haunt us, as we all expected it would. Damn.

[BearcatSA]

3 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

Officiating was atrocious, especially the assistant on our near side. I know this is going to be a shock, but holy crap CONCACAF has the worst officials in the freaking universe. Embarrassing,

Totally agree.  It seemed like a ton of blown calls by the ARs tonight.

[balfe]

8 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

Just got back from the game. More than 20,000 announced, most of those wearing RED!!

Officiating was atrocious, especially the assistant on our near side. I know this is going to be a shock, but holy crap CONCACAF has the worst officials in the freaking universe. Embarrassing,

Guys played their asses off and should have had two or three more goals, for sure. Sad to think this might be Hutch's last game for us. 

Not that I should have been surprise--I've been following the MNT for far too long--but the Salvadoran players are chippy, cheap little bastards, aren't they? Dirty little fuc.kers. But they will get their just rewards: tomorrow they fly back to shi.tty El Salvador.

Edgar must start up front for the Caps! (Kidding)

Floro must go. But we also need a lot more talent. 

 

 

Honestly the first half was the best I've ever seen Canada play, looking at Hutchinson tonight it looks like he could continue at this level, hopefully this is the case, if not then it's time to build the team around Arfield, I know he's not the youngest but he seems to be in his prime right now and it's really working out for both parties. Hopefully Hoilett can find a club at a decent level and start playing regularly, but I guess all we can do now is look to the future and hope from some good young players to come up through the pipework.

[toontownman]

Should have scored so many more. Although 2 of the three we did score shouldn't have counted. 

As mentioned by many. An absolute embarrassment in terms of officiating. Ref had very little control. 

Can blame bad finishing and curse the Mexicans taking their foot off the pedal but we threw thus qualifying away against honduras and arguably before. 

Onwards and sideways.. but one day upwards. Let's hope they make a decent decision in replacing floro. 

[RJB]

Am I the only one who thought that El Salvador did an exceptional amount of time wasting?  This boggled my mind, because they were losing!!!  WTF?

[snake]

Mexico threw their game vs Honduras that much is obvious.

[nolbertos]

5 minutes ago, RJB said:

Am I the only one who thought that El Salvador did an exceptional amount of time wasting?  This boggled my mind, because they were losing!!!  WTF?

You don't have to be winning to time waste.  Any other country would do the same, to slow the game down and take off precious seconds.  By time wasting, they were wasting Canada's chances of scoring or cutting down on Canadian opportunities to score.  Its a tactic regardless, of who's winning, obviously, if they had something to play for, they would've time wasted more.  That's something that Canadians should learn too, when playing away from home.  Slow the game down, take the crowd outta the stands and put more pressure on the home team.

[Canada1]

31 minutes ago, snake said:

Mexico threw their game vs Honduras that much is obvious.

When Mexico plays their best against us for two matches and then puts a B team out against Honduras at Azteca I have to agree.

[kungfucious]

3 hours ago, balfe said:

Might be a good shout, I was surprised at the turnout tonight, I was expecting a much bigger crowd!!

uh... do u know what idiots vcr ppl are? have u no idea how superficial and terrible a sports fan they are?  randomly poll somebody in the crowd and:

1. he will be wearing a hockey canada jersey

2. he will be unable to name 1 player on the team

3. yes. u guys are right. failure to properly select a venue was a serious advantage not taken. a sold-out yellowknife vs hondouras, edmonton vs mexico, and winnipeg vs el salvador would have been such a better choice than showcasing bc place to the world for whatever political reasons the CSA choose for vcr. theres a reason why all the nation's homeless come here u morons!

 

last rant: for all u idiots on this board criticising the substitutions, demanding benitos head... i am more than freaking estatic edgar scored!  take that and shove it up ure floro!  its far too easy to throw the coach under the bus instead of throwing 11.  

for the record...

a. the team played with an extra man for :30 and the score was STILL 1-1. regardless of where JDG and WJ were, how embarassing is that?!?  is this also floro's fault? do u think he teaches the players how to finish?!?   should the CSA take him to task for something players at this level should have mastered at the youth levels!? my belief is that finishing, and creativity are things u are more or less born with. the only thing a coach can teach is positioning and discipline. if the players are too dumb to learn, then there is nothing much any coach can do.

- larin vs hondouras 1st half (thrice)

- henry vs hondouras 2nd half (game winner)

- RB vs ES goal (that was a freaking 2vs2!)

b. the players themselves (de jong) said it should have been closer to 4 (or 5) - 0 at half instead of 1-0. that proves that they themselves know the quality isnt there, but dammit they are canadian and theyre gonna try anyways.

[xcalibre]

So we're supposed to turn away fans who can't name a player on the team? Good to know we're at that point already.

Floro's tactics are outdated and woefully ineffective.

Anyone who hasn't been vocally anti-Floro since at least the last El Salvador game is part of the problem, particularly those with any kind of voice in (social) media. We needed to hold the CSA accountable for such a dumb appointment before it was too late.

[Gian-Luca]

6 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

What's more frustrating for me is that this opponent wasn't very good.  I didn't see the first match but based on what I saw for most of the game tonight as well as the GC match last year, we should have owned these guys.  

I agree, their supposed "B" team that we faced in El Salvador certainly didn't look inferior to the team was saw last night - in fact they played better although that was probably because they were at home. There certainly didn't seem much to choose between them since they were all about the same, interchangeable level. Other than their lone striker, nobody really stood out.

 

 

[Floortom]

Honestly, I think one of the main reasons we looked so much more dangerous last night was Arfield. He has ability that I haven't seen in a Canadian midfielder in a very long time - excellent touch and service and very smart player. Replace him with someone else, like Will Johnson, and I don't think we can look nearly as good in the attack.

I really wish we had him since the beginning of the cycle 

[Addona]

1 hour ago, Floortom said:

Honestly, I think one of the main reasons we looked so much more dangerous last night was Arfield. He has ability that I haven't seen in a Canadian midfielder in a very long time - excellent touch and service and very smart player. Replace him with someone else, like Will Johnson, and I don't think we can look nearly as good in the attack.

I really wish we had him since the beginning of the cycle 

Yeah, Arfield could have been a real difference maker in the away game in ES ... I really would've liked our chances of coming away with 3 points (and advancing) if he had started that match.

[apbsmith]

I felt last night Ceran was trying to get tossed out of the game.  Maybe it was just me, but I feel he had the "reckless tackle" on his mind on repeat.  Even shook hands with Larin and a few other Canadians when he left the pitch, as if he wanted to get tossed lol.

Mexico B team didn't deliver but not like they did not try, fact they played their B team that sucked.  Mexicans missed a few really good chances & took 18 shots unfortunately only 3 on target because Honduras actually know how to bunker properly(5-4-1) not some 4-1-4-1 wannabe turtle that can't even turtle properly.

Felt Ledgerwood played great, excellent clinical finish in front of goal. With the goalie in front him! lol, unlike Larin who skied an empty net from 6 yards out.  My point before regarding Ledgerwood was I did not think he was our RB savior. I really hope Larin doesn't become the Canadian Wondolowski at least Larin scored for us last night.

[gator]

3 hours ago, xcalibre said:

So we're supposed to turn away fans who can't name a player on the team? Good to know we're at that point already.

Floro's tactics are outdated and woefully ineffective.

Anyone who hasn't been vocally anti-Floro since at least the last El Salvador game is part of the problem, particularly those with any kind of voice in (social) media. We needed to hold the CSA accountable for such a dumb appointment before it was too late.

The CSA was never going to change horses in midstream, I think many of us took a wait and see attitude, sure Floro had his short comings but with a little bit better finishing on our part and Mexico not rolling over for their Central American brothers, we would be debating venues for matches in The Hex!

[Markus]

5 hours ago, kungfucious said:

uh... do u know what idiots vcr ppl are? have u no idea how superficial and terrible a sports fan they are?  randomly poll somebody in the crowd and:

1. he will be wearing a hockey canada jersey

2. he will be unable to name 1 player on the team

3. yes. u guys are right. failure to properly select a venue was a serious advantage not taken. a sold-out yellowknife vs hondouras, edmonton vs mexico, and winnipeg vs el salvador would have been such a better choice than showcasing bc place to the world for whatever political reasons the CSA choose for vcr. theres a reason why all the nation's homeless come here u morons!

 

Ok my last point on this:

Location of the games are not the reason we didn't advance. I am all for playing our wcq games wherever is best for us or most difficult for our opponents. That being said, the last WCQ game I recall against Mexico at Commonwealth was a 2-2 draw in 2008 when Mexico had already qualified. The crowd was about 14,000 that night iirc. We all saw tonight that a dominant Mexico team can be drawn when there's nothing on the line... even at Azteca.

I was part of the crowd of 12,000 in Montreal in 2008 the month before against Honduras where the crowd was at most 6,000 canada supporters. I was part of the 10,000 at BMO against Dominica last summer. I was part of the 64k (50 canada supporters) at Azteca last March lol. 

Our most important game in 2012 (which had we won would have seen us through to the hex) was in front of 16k at BMO. It ended in a 0-0 draw. We were the better team but failed to finish. Not the weather's fault.

B.C. place was great this cycle. We won 2 of 3 games and there were no crowds below 20,000. The one game we lost was against Mexico and nobody managed a home result against them this round. I remember going to wcq games in Vancouver where we couldn't sell out 6k at Swangaard. The last wcq at B.C Place against Mexico was an all time attendance record for a wcq in Canada. That's a fucking big deal imo. I was at that game and yes there were a lot of Mexicans there but it was about 60/40 in favour of Canada and there was an energy in the crowd I have never before seen from a Canadian crowd. Yes, it was spring, and it might have been slightly colder in Edmonton, but to suggest that this was the difference between us advancing or not is ridiculous to me.

I know we're all V's here and all want the same thing but I strongly disagree. To suggest a sold out yellowknife game vs Honduras or Winnipeg vs El Salvador would have made a difference... We won those games in front of great pro Canadian crowds. I'm sorry but not playing Mexico at Commonwealth was not the problem.

We had close to 100,000 fans over 3 games at B.C. place. Unprecedented support iirc. We took 6 of a possible 9 points while maximizing ticket revenue.  I'm not saying that if we had an important December match that we shoudn't play it in -20 at Commonwealth. Just that this time around, CSA choice of venue was not the problem. 

We missed opportunities. We were very close to the hex this time. Literally one away goal in either El Salvador or Honduras would have done it. We were almost there but in the end, just not quite good enough. We need to stop making excuses. 

Condolences to all of my fellow V's whether you agree or not. The one thing we all share is profound heartbreak and that feels the same no matter where you play. 

[hectorj]

24 minutes ago, Markus said:

I know we're all V's here and all want the same thing but I strongly disagree. To suggest a sold out yellowknife game vs Honduras or Winnipeg vs El Salvador would have made a difference... We won those games in front of great pro Canadian crowds. I'm sorry but not playing Mexico at Commonwealth was not the problem.

 

I disagree. Playing Honduras and El Salvador in Vancouver is fine, as our ability is fairly close. Mexico is leaps ahead and we needed to play them in Winnipeg or Edmonton. In the past is has worked to a degree, so I don't understand why we didn't this cycle.

[Ruffian]

2 minutes ago, hectorj said:

I disagree. Playing Honduras and El Salvador in Vancouver is fine, as our ability is fairly close. Mexico is leaps ahead and we needed to play them in Winnipeg or Edmonton. In the past is has worked to a degree, so I don't understand why we didn't this cycle.

The CSA probably realised that they could make more money hosting it in Vancouver. This is not a bad thing, hopefully a lot of that money will help our development in this country.

[apbsmith]

Last 2 matches was great to watch the boys play, the passion they showed was excellent.  Can't really remember when I've seen that much passion and heart out on the field from the CNMT so thank you for fighting and playing your hearts out.

My amateur assessment on not making the HEX comes down to 3 key points plus 1 addition which many have already discussed;

1) Draw away in El Salvador in front of empty stadium.  Larin's header off the cross bar still haunts me!

2) Going up 1-0 away in Honduras and not getting a result. It was never going to be easy but fact we couldn't even bunker properly after a lead is mind boggling considering Floro's strategy/game plan.  Added to the fact the 2nd goal was off a counter attack still annoys me.

3) Being -5 G/D vs Mexico. Couldn't even bunker properly again, however we really saw Mexico at the worse time.  Full A team and they were firing on all cylinders something like 20+ matches unbeaten streak and gearing up for a Gold Cup run. Maybe Vancouver was not the right place for the Mexico game, great for attendance record but a game in Edmonton or Winnipeg may have been the smarter play.

1 addition;

Arfield

He is class and a different maker in the middle of the pitch especially in Concacaf, if we had him away in El Salvador I really believe he would have helped generate a few more scoring chances. 

Larin is the future for us at striker, so there will be some growing pains and I've accepted it, hoping he keeps developing and becomes world class for the next cycle. 

Regardless we have a decent core of youth so for that I am happy, crazy to think though 2022 (6 years) :(.

 

[Ansem]

18 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

The CSA probably realised that they could make more money hosting it in Vancouver. This is not a bad thing, hopefully a lot of that money will help our development in this country.

I thought making the Hex and eventually the world cup would be WAY more important than selling tickets...just saying

[Califax]

Take comfort in the fact that we will only have to wait 3 of these 6 years for qualifiers to start.

 

I was hoping it would be packed last night. 

Now that we can compare apples to apples, when it isn't a big draw team and it isn't on a Saturday, Vancouver hardly looks like a "soccer capital". They, like every city in this country, doesn't really give a shit when it isn't an "event". 

 

 

[shorty]

WRT playing in Vancouver, there were obviously so many factors to balance for the CSA:  BMO not available (at first), making money, building a brand, strategic concerns for WCQ games in order to make the Hex including size of crowd, weather, travel.  The strategic advantage of playing Mexico in the cold is a likely one, but not a certain one, and balanced off with the advantage of building a following for the MNT in Canada by staying in one city for three games in a row (following the WWC as well) I would say they probably made the right choice long term.  We were effectively one goal away for the Hex (either one scored in SLV or not allowed in HON).  Not defending Floro's wacky roster/substitution choices, just pointing out that the goal of the Hex was a whisker away.

So now, do they move on and build a following in another city?  Winnipeg? Calgary? Edmonton?  Or to they return to alternating between Toronto and Vancouver?  As much as it was great to finally see the MNT live for once, I would be happy if they cultivated a following in one of the colder cities so that when we need to set a game in 3 degrees C in March, we can do so within a series of two/three games there.

More important for getting a crowd is the date selection.  I agree with Califax -- size of the crowd was disappointing, but it shouldn't be surprising.  Tuesday night, and the first day of school?  I came to both the HON and MEX games from the island, but as a teacher with two kids of my own, there was no way I could swing it for Tuesday realistically.  Hopefully, having Vic in place might help with date selection.  On a similar note, I have really enjoying seeing referring that, if not great, is at least not biased.  Hope that the trend of selecting refs from the one of the three regions NOT playing in the game continues.

[Ruffian]

I think we should alternate between Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal. We have the best facilities in these cities and there should a positive effect on attendance from established local soccer support groups. Ottawa and Edmonton and any other city who can establish a strong soccer community should also be in the running but at the moment do not offer what the big 3 can offer.