Fikayo Tomori

[Corazon]

I'm hoping understands that with the England National Team that he may only ever see 10 games in a competitive team whereas for Canada he will be a stalwart for our team year after year. 

[SkuseisLoose]

It is possible he becomes a England caliber player and gets lots of caps for them. I think it’s pretty short-sighted to say he won’t ever get many caps for England just do the fact he isn’t good enough yet.

[Corazon]

4 hours ago, SkuseisLoose said:

It is possible he becomes a England caliber player and gets lots of caps for them. I think it’s pretty short-sighted to say he won’t ever get many caps for England just do the fact he isn’t good enough yet.

Exactly why I said he MAY only get 10 caps for England.  Based on right now he is on the fringe.  He May or May Not ever even be capped by England.  He May or May Not become an England regular in the future.

Based on right now he is likely one of a few fringe players right on the cusp of a call up and he has a long history in England youth programs but he is still likely 5th to 10th (subjective) in the pecking order.  With many of the current top regular center backs fairly young right now as well.  Which I why I am hopeful he takes his time to make a decision and not rush into a call up.

Always good to have hope!

Edited September 2, 2019 by Corazon

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, Corazon said:

Based on right now he is likely one of a few fringe players right on the cusp of a call up and he has a long history in England youth programs but he is still likely 5th to 10th (subjective) in the pecking order. 

I very much agree with your point and would remind people he is on our minds right now a lot more than England supporters.  

I would however say you are even being too generous to him above.  There are articles that go out just before the international break to fill inches and get clicks about who deserves a first cap or a return.  He did not show up in any I saw (I did see his teammates Mount and Abraham, maybe offence bias or maybe how Chelsea has played or the fact that they have played more than one game).  Now that is not the manager writing those but it would be a surprise to England supporters if he was one on the cusp.

As far as where he is in the pecking order. 5th is really generous and I would say 10th is probably as well. 

Gomez, Keane and Maguire are the regular recent call-ups with the new one being Mings.  Stones was playing in the Nations League this summer but has some injuries.  You have guys that were at the World Cup-  Cahill (maybe too old but playing regularly in the Premier League) and Jones (not playing ).  Beyond that you have a number of other English players playing regularly in the Premier League some with caps. -  Steve Cook, Dunk, (even) Dan Burn, Ben Mee (a captain), Tarkowski, Lascelles (another captain), a guy named Jack O'Connell has started every game for Sheffield United, Coady has captained Wolves, his teammate Bennett.  And there are people like Callum Chambers who have played as much this season as Tomori for a big club and his teammate Holding who is injured. 

Sky is the limit for this kid, but a good game does not make him an England player even at Chelsea, especially Chelsea this year so far.  I think he should start with Rudiger after the break, well, I would think that if I were Chelsea.  

Edited September 2, 2019 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[An Observer]

8 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I very much agree with your point and would remind people he is on our minds right now a lot more than England supporters.  

I would however say you are even being too generous to him above.  There are articles that go out just before the international break to fill inches and get clicks about who deserves a first cap or a return.  He did not show up in any I saw (I did see his teammates Mount and Abraham, maybe offence bias or maybe how Chelsea has played or the fact that they have played more than one game).  Now that is not the manager writing those but it would be a surprise to England supporters if he was one on the cusp.

As far as where he is in the pecking order. 5th is really generous and I would say 10th is probably as well. 

Gomez, Keane and Maguire are the regular recent call-ups with the new one being Mings.  Stones was playing in the Nations League this summer but has some injuries.  You have guys that were at the World Cup-  Cahill (maybe too old but playing regularly in the Premier League) and Jones (not playing ).  Beyond that you have a number of other English players playing regularly in the Premier League some with caps. -  Steve Cook, Dunk, (even) Dan Burn, Ben Mee (a captain), Tarkowski, Lascelles (another captain), a guy named Jack O'Connell has started every game for Sheffield United, Coady has captained Wolves, his teammate Bennett.  And there are people like Callum Chambers who have played as much this season as Tomori for a big club and his teammate Holding who is injured. 

Sky is the limit for this kid, but a good game does not make him an England player even at Chelsea, especially Chelsea this year so far.  I think he should start with Rudiger after the break, well, I would think that if I were Chelsea.  

You are probably correct with your assessment. But if I was the kid and I was ambitious which he certainly is, a season with Chelsea starting half the matches likely changes that equation somewhat. And another season as a starter would put him likely in the top 5.  With no reason to make a decision for another year or two, I suspect that is where this will stay with him concentrating on club football. Unfortunately, I think we would be lucky to get him in time for the 2021 gold cup which would be good preparation for the final match in our side of World Cup qualifying and the 4th place match should we get that far in the autumn. 

[johnyb]

On 8/31/2019 at 2:32 PM, Mikmacdo said:

I think its time to move on, if hes good enough to start for chelsea he will earn at least one callup to England. 

Never!!! Until he's capped by England. Until then I will continue to hope he is a fringe Premier Leauge player which makes him good enough for Canada but not good enough for England. After we cap him he can go on to win the UEFA player of the year of course.

[PopePouri]

So Joe Gomez and John Stones have been displaced from their respective starting lineups. Will Keane screwed up royally for England in their last game.

Tomori has now started in consecutive games so I think this thread will be closed in the near future.

[Lansdude]

Lol he just scored an insane 35 yard goal. We're never getting this guy.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

25 minutes ago, Lansdude said:

Lol he just scored an insane 35 yard goal. We're never getting this guy.

Might be willing to call it at this point but it is just 2 games, it is just 2 games, it is just 2 games...*

 

*said while rocking back and forth

 

Slightly more seriously:

46 minutes ago, PopePouri said:

So Joe Gomez and John Stones have been displaced from their respective starting lineups. Will Keane screwed up royally for England in their last game.

Tomori has now started in consecutive games so I think this thread will be closed in the near future.

To be fair,  Gomez and Stones were never super regular for their clubs and still were regular call ups lately when fit and now Laporte is out for six months for City and Stones is just back from injury.  Keane messed up, as did Maguire and Rice, not sure that is going chance a whole lot long term. 

I still think Tomori will have to earn it the hard way,  which to be fair he is right now. 

Edited September 14, 2019 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[toontownman]

Add on one year for the start, one for the goal and one for the fact its 35 yards out. 

We will still get him when he is uncapped at 32. Keep the faith.

Edited September 14, 2019 by toontownman

[SpecialK]

What a goal and great run to  set up the 2nd.

[costarg]

Now his Chelsea team mate Abraham is talking about joining Nigeria, due to competition at the striker role for England.  I bet Tomori joins him.  He already had 3 Derby team mates play for Nigeria.  Competition will be fierce to get him.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/chelsea/story/3943979/abraham-on-nigeria-call-never-say-never

[dyslexic nam]

Maybe a V's gift basket, with some lotion and scented candles?

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, costarg said:

Now his Chelsea team mate Abraham is talking about joining Nigeria, due to competition at the striker role for England.  I bet Tomori joins him.  He already had 3 Derby team mates play for Nigeria.  Competition will be fierce to get him.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/chelsea/story/3943979/abraham-on-nigeria-call-never-say-never

There are more twists and turns in this before its done, I think and hope.  Scoring wonder goals is one thing but Chelsea still have not kept a clean sheet.  That said , the England centre backs have not covered themselves in glory this weekend either. 

[dyslexic nam]

I just saw that Tomori played the full 90 yesterday in Chelsea's game against Valencia. At this point, I consider him pretty much gone.  Hard to think England won't call him up at some point.  

[SpecialK]

 I’m hoping Herdman and the clowns ( the CSA) are watching and talking to him.  I know it’s a longshot but our team is young, talented and he would be a key starter for us.  If we beat the states twice I really hope that changes some minds about Canada like Ferreira ( still unattached and might be still hurt) , Gutiérrez and others. 

[dyslexic nam]

I just don’t see England passing up a CB that is good enough to play for Chelsea at 21.  That is really young for a CB to be playing at that level.  I sincerely hope I am pleasantly surprised, but I would put down a decent bet that he is as good as gone for us.  

[SpecialK]

Yes  you’re probably right and if he chooses England it will suck but  it would suck less if he went without a fight from the CSA. For example Oz pushed hard for Cristante but he  chose Italy at the end, to me it hurt less because they did try hard. Also Cristante took notice and supportive. 

[An Observer]

11 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Yes  you’re probably right and if he chooses England it will suck but  it would suck less if he went without a fight from the CSA. For example Oz pushed hard for Cristante but he  chose Italy at the end, to me it hurt less because they did try hard. Also Cristante took notice and supportive. 

I am sure they are trying as hard as possible.  I know everyone likes to think this but they are not idiots.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I just don’t see England passing up a CB that is good enough to play for Chelsea at 21.  That is really young for a CB to be playing at that level.  I sincerely hope I am pleasantly surprised, but I would put down a decent bet that he is as good as gone for us.  

I think a pretty fair comparison would be Joe Gomez who got his first cap at age 20.  It came during some fairly experimental friendlies in November 2017.   He was starting fairly regularly in the Liverpool side as a right back but Southgate tried him in the outside of a back 3.  Southgate also knew him from the U21s. His team was doing well, not amazing, flirting with a Champion League spot that they eventually cemented after signing Van Dijk in January.  They were also playing in the Champions League in a relatively easy group but he featured less there.  

Whether Southgate will be as experimental this October and November for Euro qualifiers remains to be seen.  Also whether there will be an England centre back as mediocre as Phil Jones (who Gomez replaced for his first cap because of injury) is also unknown. There probably will not be one as old as Cahill who he replaced for his second. 

It is early days, Chelsea have yet to keep a clean sheet despite decent performances by Tomori recently.  They sit in 6th, level on points with us and 3rd, at the moment but it is clear that this is not your father's (who happens to be a Russian billionaire) Chelsea.  For good and bad for them.  

But if this was just about playing for a "big" club the might see Taylor Harwood-Bellis in an England shirt in the near future, if Man City's defenders keep dropping like flies.  

All this is, for me at least, apparently interesting to watch in a car-crash kind of way. 

[SpecialK]

11 hours ago, An Observer said:

I am sure they are trying as hard as possible.  I know everyone likes to think this but they are not idiots.

Are you sure?? Because they didn't even book friendlies and they still voting in favour of the new  World Cup qualifying system ? Now we are 5 points back of six place in the rankings 

[BuzzAndSting]

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

they still voting in favour of the new  World Cup qualifying system ?

What? The CSA voted for the new system? Source?

[Fullback]

I don't even understand what John and the CSA are supposed to do to entice him. Is he supposed to be up late into the night trying to call Fikayo and crafting love letters for him?

I'm sure Fikayo knows that the CSA wants him. How about we relax and let him decide when he is ready?

Spoiler alert though: we are probably his third choice and I doubt we ever see him representing us on the international stage.

[BuzzAndSting]

32 minutes ago, Fullback said:

I don't even understand what John and the CSA are supposed to do to entice him. Is he supposed to be up late into the night trying to call Fikayo and crafting love letters for him?

I'm sure Fikayo knows that the CSA wants him. How about we relax and let him decide when he is ready?

Spoiler alert though: we are probably his third choice and I doubt we ever see him representing us on the international stage.

SpecialK's classic response is always "friendlies against top teams..." Except it looks like he'll be playing for the #4 team in the world.

[Ansem]