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Fikayo Tomori

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46 minutes ago, Obinna said:

If you were a 21 year old Englishman and played for England's youth teams and were just voted MVP of an English Championship side, would you be swayed to play for Canada right now, or would you wait it out for a little longer?

If I'm in his shoes (and I put my personal biases aside) I think that I would still probably play for Canada, but after the U21 Championships. England is very deep at CB and it may be a while before he gets a shot at the senior level. With Canada, he will probably walk onto every starting XI for the next 10 years. That also includes a World Cup that will be played at home. 

Think of a five year outlook: If he plays for us, he will likely play 90 minutes, 10 games a year against top tier CONCACAF opponents. With England, he may see substitute appearances and the odd start in a friendly.

It is impossible to look into his head, but we have to trust the process and hope that Herdman can get him on board.

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Good for him but potentially not good for Canada.  I would bet that he waits a little longer afterwards but I do hope that am wrong in saying that.  At only 21, he has got to feel he may get a shot within a couple years.  It will all depend on where he plays and if he plays consistently in the next couple seasons.  He grew up in a Nigerian household and left Canada before he could even remember the country.  He probably feels as English as any native born English player.

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Next year is a big one for him. Can he breakthrough at Chelsea? Probably not if he does Canada is likely out of the picture again for the short- midterm. 

Best case scenario for him is getting promoted via playoffs with Derby and either resigning on loan or them buying him so he gets premiership games. 

Best scenario for Canada, he breaks through at Chelsea and commits to us..more likely best case is derby miss out on playoffs and he remains there another year. 

If he moves elsewhere he might well starve off Canada interest in the fall so he can settle in at a new club. 

It's hard to know where his head might be at regarding Canada. He is as mentioned arguably even outside top 10 depth for England at the moment. That can certainly quickly change with good fortune, injuries and form. His best bet for international minutes and world cup is Canada (weird putting world cup and Canada together with best bet). I still think there is a great chance of snaring him in the fall. 

Let's see where the gold cup goes. We certainly have momentum and a good thing at the moment!

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Seeing as he has basically been raised in England his whole life, i don’t expect him to give up that easily. I actually respect him for trying to play for the country he was raised in.

People often say “He could be playing so many more games for the weaker team and will be a lock in the World Cup”, but to some players making a friendly appearance for the nation you dreamed of playing for is much more fulfilling than playing for a nation you have weak ties with.

I believe Arfield would much rather have that 1 appearance for Scotland than a World Cup appearance for Canada

Edited by canta15

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5 minutes ago, canta15 said:

Seeing as he has basically been raised in England his whole life, i don’t expect him to give up that easily. I actually respect him for trying to play for the country he was raised in.

People often say “He could be playing so many more games for the weaker team and will be a lock in the World Cup”, but to some players making a friendly appearance for the nation you dreamed of playing for is much more fulfilling than playing for a nation you have weak ties with.

I believe Arfield would much rather have that 1 appearance for Scotland than a World Cup appearance for Canada

That  just goes to show why guys wait.  Tomori is 21, a baby in CB terms.  He can still play youth soccer for England and when he is 25-26 and it looks bleak with england then maybe he changes his mind.  

But I doubt that Arfield regrets his decision, at 27 with no call ups time was running out.  In 3 years with us he has gotten 13 caps and is captain of the squad.  

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2 hours ago, Jith12 said:

If I'm in his shoes (and I put my personal biases aside) I think that I would still probably play for Canada, but after the U21 Championships. England is very deep at CB and it may be a while before he gets a shot at the senior level. With Canada, he will probably walk onto every starting XI for the next 10 years. That also includes a World Cup that will be played at home. 

Think of a five year outlook: If he plays for us, he will likely play 90 minutes, 10 games a year against top tier CONCACAF opponents. With England, he may see substitute appearances and the odd start in a friendly.

It is impossible to look into his head, but we have to trust the process and hope that Herdman can get him on board.

Logical argument, but I don't think he'll logically look at the competition and resign himself to Canada (or Nigeria for that matter), I think he'll look at the competition and feel why not him?

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keep in mind that Arfield was playing in the EPL and did not get the call for Scotland....  There is absolutely no doubt that if Tomori (as was the case with Arfield for Scotland) gets the call for England he will accept it, but he would have to be starting consistently and playing very well in the EPL.  Not many thought Cristante would get the call for Italy, although he was playing in Serie A and was a highly regarded youth prospect. Hopefully we make a big splash in the Gold Cup, Tomori stays in the Championship next season and Herdman works his magic like Harry Potter

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18 hours ago, canta15 said:

Seeing as he has basically been raised in England his whole life, i don’t expect him to give up that easily. I actually respect him for trying to play for the country he was raised in.

People often say “He could be playing so many more games for the weaker team and will be a lock in the World Cup”, but to some players making a friendly appearance for the nation you dreamed of playing for is much more fulfilling than playing for a nation you have weak ties with.

I believe Arfield would much rather have that 1 appearance for Scotland than a World Cup appearance for Canada

Not many expected Stephen Eustáquio to commit to Canada so quickly after finishing his time with the Portugal U21 team, but he committed soon after. We might be surprised by Tomori also.

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At this point I really think it depends on whether he gets into the Prem. If he gets there and plays well and often, he'll get a chance, even if he does so with a club near the bottom of the table.

James Tarkowski comes to mind. He's 26 and had to wait until last year for his first England cap, but clearly his performances at Burnley did not go unnoticed...

I really hope Tomori changes his mind, but I wouldn't blame him for sticking it out for an England chance.

Have we ever had a dual national play youth for Canada, switch to another nation, then switch back? I know De Jong was involved very briefly with Holland after representing Canada's youth teams, but he wasn't nearly as involved as Tomori is for England.

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I think even with him getting the opportunity of playing consistently in the EPL won't strengthen his chances. 

I know in football there is always the possibilities of injuries. However recognizing that England is in a "golden generation", its going to be very hard for not only Tomori but others to break into that team. Their recent success will strengthen that. Take a look, their current top CBs looks like this: 

- John Stones 24, Man City

- Harry Maguire 26, Leicester 

-  Michael Kean 26, Everton 

- Joe Gomez 21, Liverpool 

- Kyle Walker 28, Man City 

Then you have the fringe guys like:

- James Tarkowsi 26, Burnley 

- Phil Jones 27, Man U

- Lewis Dunk 27, Brighton 

- Callum Chambers 24, Fulham on loan from Arsenal 

Then there's guys who have played CB:

- Eric Dier 26, Tottenham 

- Declan Rice 21, West Ham

Then there's guys who have had strong seasons but never seen a camp:

- Jamal Lascelles 26, Newcastle 

- Conor Coady 26, Wolves 

- Mason Holgate 22, WBA

Then there's other young players who are in his exact same position. What makes it harder is that in the CB position, you usually see experienced older players. And as I listed above, a lot of them are coming into their prime years. 

So for Tomori its just a wait and see. I think he will end up suiting up for Canada, as the future is promising even with the 26 carrot. If England come calling, it'll be to cap-tie him to the wayside. 

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1 hour ago, Shway said:

I think even with him getting the opportunity of playing consistently in the EPL won't strengthen his chances. 

I know in football there is always the possibilities of injuries. However recognizing that England is in a "golden generation", its going to be very hard for not only Tomori but others to break into that team. Their recent success will strengthen that. Take a look, their current top CBs looks like this: 

- John Stones 24, Man City

- Harry Maguire 26, Leicester 

-  Michael Kean 26, Everton 

- Joe Gomez 21, Liverpool 

- Kyle Walker 28, Man City 

Then you have the fringe guys like:

- James Tarkowsi 26, Burnley 

- Phil Jones 27, Man U

- Lewis Dunk 27, Brighton 

- Callum Chambers 24, Fulham on loan from Arsenal 

Then there's guys who have played CB:

- Eric Dier 26, Tottenham 

- Declan Rice 21, West Ham

Then there's guys who have had strong seasons but never seen a camp:

- Jamal Lascelles 26, Newcastle 

- Conor Coady 26, Wolves 

- Mason Holgate 22, WBA

Then there's other young players who are in his exact same position. What makes it harder is that in the CB position, you usually see experienced older players. And as I listed above, a lot of them are coming into their prime years. 

So for Tomori its just a wait and see. I think he will end up suiting up for Canada, as the future is promising even with the 26 carrot. If England come calling, it'll be to cap-tie him to the wayside. 

And yet...

World Cup wins for everyone listed above combined - 0

World Cup wins for Tomori - 1

Honestly, I don't really know a thing about anybody you listed, or Tomori either. But I think a guy who has already won a youth World Cup with the only country he remembers living in, might wait a few years to see if he can break through. But hey, I won't complain if he succumbs to Herdman's advances.

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1 minute ago, Strait Red said:

Kyle Walker is not a CB, he’s a RB. But you pint of many, many players ahead of Tomori is valid. He’ll play for Canada, it’s just a matter of time.

But Walker was used as a CB in the last tournament England was in strangely enough.  I remember the commentators being befuddled by the decision

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23 minutes ago, El Diego said:

Walker played as a CB in a 3. Southgate won't use him there in a 2.

Looking at that list of players... I'm not sure how that's supposed to dissuade Tomori? Lots of meh names there.

Aside from Stones, Keane, Maguire & Gomez, there are a bunch of players that are either on their way out of the NT fold or fringe players.  Both Keane & Maguire were both mid 20s when they really broke into the national team.  I guess the biggest positive for Canada is that those 4 players above seem have the quality to be the main 4 center backs for the NT for the next 5 to 10 years.

Media and analysts are predicting good things for him and given that he just won player of the year for his top championship side team I would think that Tomori has to figure he may have a shot in the coming couple of years.  Tomori also happens to be coached by an English icon in Frank Lampard.  I would bet that Lampard has a good relationship with both Tomori & the English NT.

I hope I'm wrong but he may wait until a few years before a decision is made.

Edited by Corazon

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14 hours ago, El Diego said:

Looking at that list of players... I'm not sure how that's supposed to dissuade Tomori? Lots of meh names there.

Bottom line there's a lot of "meh" players who are playing week in and week out in the premier league. 

If that wasn't an issue, then Jack Grealish would be in the team.

If he gets an England call up soon, it won't be because of merit, but because the EFA will be aware of the CSAs interest. 

Edited by Shway

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Injured and replaced in 11th minute.  Not sure of the severity of the injury. The DerbyTelegraph is saying it was a foot injury.  He was clearing a cross and was fouled. He tried to play for a bit, but was unable to continue 

Edited by Weng
New info

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Tomori should play for the country that has his heart.  This has always been my position.  The biggest problem I had with **********, is that he shopped himself like a mercenary, and picked the country that would provide him the best opportunity.  With de Guzman, he made it clear for a long time that he chose the Netherlands, and he didn't really waver from that.  That's the big difference with those two, and that's why I give de Guzman a pass, but hold it against **********. 

I want someone who wants to represent us.  I want a player who feels Canadian.  If Tomori chooses England, it should be because that's what's in his heart, not because that is what is best for his career.  And of course, don't say one thing and do another like Begovic.  Be clear, be honest, and follow your heart!

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11 hours ago, RJB said:

Tomori should play for the country that has his heart.  This has always been my position.  The biggest problem I had with **********, is that he shopped himself like a mercenary, and picked the country that would provide him the best opportunity.  With de Guzman, he made it clear for a long time that he chose the Netherlands, and he didn't really waver from that.  That's the big difference with those two, and that's why I give de Guzman a pass, but hold it against **********. 

I want someone who wants to represent us.  I want a player who feels Canadian.  If Tomori chooses England, it should be because that's what's in his heart, not because that is what is best for his career.  And of course, don't say one thing and do another like Begovic.  Be clear, be honest, and follow your heart!

Happy to have Eustaquio on our team but it also sounds like he would have loved to represent Portugal's senior team.  Luckily for us, I think he considered the possibility of a decade playing for Canada on a regular basis when making his decision.  Tomori played with great quality and pride for our youth team so although I think he likely feels very British and may give it a chance, I would still welcome him back here.

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Big day for tomo and derby. I hope they can do it. 

I dont know what's best for our chances of snaring him. Regardless of his impending or longwinded international commitment decisions I hope they go up and he signs with them.

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