Raheem Edwards

[deschamp86]

2 hours ago, Keegan said:

I agree with lining up like TFC but hat isn't the formation TFC plays, the two outside players are wingbacks rather than wingers and the midfield is more like two central players and a holding man  

I know. I just posted it like that because it was spaced out nicer.

A lot of the time it seems like TFC is playing with wingers rather than wing backs (well, the first half on Friday at least) because they were holding majority of the possession and consistently attacking)

With Canada's defensive options, I'd be praying that they could hold a lot of possession too, unless OZ can keep the defensive line well organized. Afterall, Hagglund and Zavaleta only really started shining at the end of last year, so maybe an experienced defender (a la Moor) could keep the back line organized well enough for Canada to have a high press

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Keegan said:

I agree with lining up like TFC but hat isn't the formation TFC plays, the two outside players are wingbacks rather than wingers and the midfield is more like two central players and a holding man  

More like:

--------------Larin----Hoilett-----------------

-------------Johnson---Arfield--------------

Edwards-------Hutchinson-----------Aird

-----------Vitoria--James--Jakovc-------

 

Based on Aird's last match for us and Edwards current form I think that is the best team we could put out, it'll never happen but that's the way to line up if we want all our best players in their natural positions. 

I was actually thinking about this line up before I saw this discussion of us lining up like TFC

Some slight modifications though, if I may:

--------------Larin----Hoilett-----------------

-------------Johnson---Arfield--------------

Edwards-------Hutchinson-----------Aird

--------James---Vitoria---Straith-------

 

Firstly, I think Vitoria needs to play the "Drew Moor" role, not James. You want this guy to be your quarterback, leading and communicating with everyone in front of him. I don't see James as having those qualities, but Vitoria does from what we have seen. Edgar, when healthy is the perfect alternative. We want two players for every position.

The other thing that makes Vitoria (and Edgar) good for that role is their passing ability (both short and long), and their lack of speed. Edgar is not so bad, but Vitoria in particular has very little pace, we we don't want him to be a "marking" centre back. Conversely, it would be a waste to NOT use James as a marking centre back, as his athleticism and recovery defending are his strengths. Along with James, Attakora and Henry, when healthy, are some other options for these two positions.

I want to talk about Straith though for a moment. I have him in that role because I think we need him on the field, given our options right now. He has experience, is playing regularly and is going to be around for this next cycle. He has decent pace and sure, if we need he can also play where I have Vitoria, but I think it would serve the team better to line up in this way.

Jakovic by the way is the odd man out as you can see. First of all, there are signs he is not coming back. Zambrano said he hopes he'll be around, indicating it's not clear, but even if he was available, I would choose Straith over him, at least to start, and here's why: Straith is younger, with a little more experience, and is playing club ball at the same level. Unless Jakovic is in very good form, I think investing more in Straith makes sense.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Obinna

[Guest]

I honestly like having 3 at the back considering both our starting fullbacks aren't even fullbacks

[PopePouri]

If you go three at the back, both Ouimette and Attakora who are hybrid CB/FBs become decent options on either side of the 3. Same with Camara if he commits.

[Ivan]

Maybe it's just me but I find it shocking that people are still including DeJong and Ouimette in their projected starting lineups.

[shermanator]

To me, it's just as shocking as including a guy with 369 minutes in MLS as a starting LW or LWB at the Gold Cup.

[deschamp86]

2 hours ago, shermanator said:

To me, it's just as shocking as including a guy with 369 minutes in MLS as a starting LW or LWB at the Gold Cup.

How long have you followed Canada for now? I've stopped being shocked long ago lol

[Fastfeet2]

2 hours ago, shermanator said:

To me, it's just as shocking as including a guy with 369 minutes in MLS as a starting LW or LWB at the Gold Cup.

To me, the team should be based on current form, not previous MLS minutes played. But it's not like his 40 TFC II appearances were in a amateur league, he has plenty of pro experience.

Currently, i'd have La'vere and Raheem as the first 2 left sided options in a 3 5 2. 

[shermanator]

38 minutes ago, Fastfeet2 said:

To me, the team should be based on current form, not previous MLS minutes played. But it's not like his 40 TFC II appearances were in a amateur league, he has plenty of pro experience.

Currently, i'd have La'vere and Raheem as the first 2 left sided options in a 3 5 2. 

Edwards is on a great run of form right now, but it's a 3 week period that people are blowing their load over, and completely naive to think that he's anywhere near a starter in our best 11 at an important tournament. If people were arguing to start Edwards during the Curacao friendly, that would be fair.

Starting certain players based on form is fair but there's also a time and place for blooding players into the national team program. The Gold Cup is not that place, unless you want to have a repeat of 2013. Is he called to the squad? If his form continues I think that's likely. A sub appearance? Depending on the scenario, it makes sense. But a starter? We might as well waive the white flag now.

[Fastfeet2]

17 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Starting certain players based on form is fair but there's also a time and place for blooding players into the national team program. The Gold Cup is not that place, unless you want to have a repeat of 2013. Is he called to the squad? If his form continues I think that's likely. A sub appearance? Depending on the scenario, it makes sense. But a starter? We might as well waive the white flag now.

Waiving the white flag is a bit much, we dont have a bunch of Alabas or Albas to pick from on the left. Who would be your first and second choice in a LWB/LB role

[shermanator]

8 minutes ago, Fastfeet2 said:

Waiving the white flag is a bit much, we dont have a bunch of Alabas or Albas to pick from on the left. Who would be your first and second choice in a LWB/LB role

De Jong is my first choice despite his lack of form, and Tissot is my second choice. I think lining up as a LWB works to both these players strengths in attack. I also think that if we are looking to convert someone who has typically played further up the pitch, Akindele could be interesting in the role, but I don't know much of his defensive skills, so that's about as likely as Edwards starting to me.

[El Hombre]

2 hours ago, Fastfeet2 said:

To me, the team should be based on current form, not previous MLS minutes played. But it's not like his 40 TFC II appearances were in a amateur league, he has plenty of pro experience.

This brings up a good point: Raheem is exhibit A of why TFCII's prioritizing results over development is a bad thing.  With TFCII bringing in and relying on the 21-25 year old NCAA products these days, I'd be hard-pressed to see a 19 year-old from Sheridan getting 40 games with them these days.

Sure it's only been a couple games, but it has been a couple games where he has shown that he can do a job at the MLS level.

[PopePouri]

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

This brings up a good point: Raheem is exhibit A of why TFCII's prioritizing results over development is a bad thing.  With TFCII bringing in and relying on the 21-25 year old NCAA products these days, I'd be hard-pressed to see a 19 year-old from Sheridan getting 40 games with them these days.

Sure it's only been a couple games, but it has been a couple games where he has shown that he can do a job at the MLS level.

TBF to TFC 2, this last game they started 5 and listed on the bench 6/7 Canadians. I believe they'll integrate Fraser as well at some point. 

[Grizzly]

6 hours ago, shermanator said:

De Jong is my first choice despite his lack of form, and Tissot is my second choice. I think lining up as a LWB works to both these players strengths in attack. I also think that if we are looking to convert someone who has typically played further up the pitch, Akindele could be interesting in the role, but I don't know much of his defensive skills, so that's about as likely as Edwards starting to me.

The reason guys who have performed well in only 369 career MLS minutes are in the conversation is because the alternatives are: 1) an out of form DeJong who sometimes looks great for the national team but just as frequently is awful. And when he is not playing or out of form at his club he usually plays awful for the national team 2) a still fairly inexperienced Tissot who shows more promise higher on the pitch and is a bit weak defensively and who has only played about the same number of minutes this year as Edwards except that most of those minutes were at the USL not MLS level.

I agree in a team or position with decent depth someone like Edwards would not be called based on this limited amount of play. However, in a position with no real strong contender someone playing well at a level where his two competitors are mostly on the bench or playing for the second team and in De Jong's case not looking that great when he has played, the young inexperienced player is a legitimate option. Not that I am saying Edwards should be our starter but I don't think the prospect is as shocking or unreasonable as you are making it out to be. I would personally like to see all of Tabla (if he commits), Davies (if he gets his citizenship) and Edwards on the Gold Cup squad and competing for playing time.

[deschamp86]

11 hours ago, El Hombre said:

This brings up a good point: Raheem is exhibit A of why TFCII's prioritizing results over development is a bad thing.  With TFCII bringing in and relying on the 21-25 year old NCAA products these days, I'd be hard-pressed to see a 19 year-old from Sheridan getting 40 games with them these days.

Sure it's only been a couple games, but it has been a couple games where he has shown that he can do a job at the MLS level.

TFCII only started prioritizing results this year.

They also signed Ryan Telfer who is one of the team's leaders for minutes played and played at York University last year if I am not mistaken

Yes, Telfer is older than Edwards, but really who's to say that they would not have played Edwards

[Shway]

12 hours ago, shermanator said:

Starting certain players based on form is fair but there's also a time and place for blooding players into the national team program. The Gold Cup is not that place, unless you want to have a repeat of 2013. Is he called to the squad? If his form continues I think that's likely. A sub appearance? Depending on the scenario, it makes sense. But a starter? We might as well waive the white flag now.

While I understand your sentiment. I can't say I disagree or agree. But what I will say is you can't isolate and compare failure to make your point.

We contradict ourselves so many times on here saying that our starting IX has to be playing consistently with their club, but then we say a player like De Jong HAS TO BE A STARTER even though he's barely been in the 18 and has played 277 less minutes than Raheem who is in great form? Yes that can all change, but it could be worse or get better , so we should look at the now to plan for the future.

Then some of us agree to that the GC is no place to give new blood that kind of stage, but to give it to the players who have continued to fail on the same stage for tournament after tournament while expecting some miraculous change due to our brand new latin english attack speaking coach.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Jahinho Guerro

[El Hombre]

18 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

TFCII only started prioritizing results this year.

Exactly my point.  Raheem wouldn't get the opportunities that he got in 2015 with this 2017 team and this 2017 mindset.

They also signed Ryan Telfer who is one of the team's leaders for minutes played and played at York University last year if I am not mistaken

Yes, Telfer is older than Edwards, but really who's to say that they would not have played Edwards

I knew someone would bring up Telfer.  Huge difference between signing a 19 year old and a 23 year old.  Also, Telfer is just barely ahead of Spencer in terms of minutes played meanwhile Shaan Hundal has a higher ceiling than both of them and plays the same position is well behind.  Both are behind allstars like Aubrey and James and Alseth.

Look at who TFC II have signed this year: Luis Pereira, Brandon Onkony, Jelani Peters, Lars Eckenrode, Jordan McCrary, Mark Pais.  You're fooling yourself if you think a kid from Sheridan would get a chance.

 

 

 

[Shway]

1 minute ago, El Hombre said:

Look at who TFC II have signed this year: Luis Pereira, Brandon Onkony, Jelani Peters, Lars Eckenrode, Jordan McCrary, Mark Pais.  You're fooling yourself if you think a kid from Sheridan would get a chance.

You're fooling yourself for speaking hypothetically as a surety. Yes you make great revelations to the changes at TFCII, but you just can't make statements like that.

[deschamp86]

4 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Exactly my point.  Raheem wouldn't get the opportunities that he got in 2015 with this 2017 team and this 2017 mindset.

I knew someone would bring up Telfer.  Huge difference between signing a 19 year old and a 23 year old.  Also, Telfer is just barely ahead of Spencer in terms of minutes played meanwhile Shaan Hundal has a higher ceiling than both of them and plays the same position is well behind.  Both are behind allstars like Aubrey and James and Alseth.

Look at who TFC II have signed this year: Luis Pereira, Brandon Onkony, Jelani Peters, Lars Eckenrode, Jordan McCrary, Mark Pais.  You're fooling yourself if you think a kid from Sheridan would get a chance.

For you to say that Edwards wouldn't get minutes on this team is just speculation on your part.

And yes, I did put in my first post that there was an age difference. I was all for the original plan of TFC playing young guys only, but they were clearly playing in a league above their level. 

If these young guys are so good, they should be able to put some work in and displace these older guys on TFC II, who, are not even that much older. If they can't bump a 21-23 year old from a USL reserve roster, how are they ever going to be able to fight for a spot on an MLS roster??

[Shway]

4 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

If these young guys are so good, they should be able to put some work in and displace these older guys on TFC II, who, are not even that much older. If they can't bump a 21-23 year old from a USL reserve roster, how are they ever going to be able to fight for a spot on an MLS roster??

Not to dwell on this TFCII talk anymore then have, as there is a thread for this but I'll sum it to say 13 wins in 60 games playing academy kids clearly wasn't efficient to the Toronto organization in regard to development. Massive reason why TFCIII was created/renamed, because some of the kids were simply not ready to play FULL seasons in the USL. 

[Kent]

2 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Not to dwell on this TFCII talk anymore then have, as there is a thread for this but I'll sum it to say 13 wins in 60 games playing academy kids clearly wasn't efficient to the Toronto organization in regard to development. Massive reason why TFCIII was created/renamed, because some of the kids were simply not ready to play FULL seasons in the USL. 

I really don't know enough about TFCII to say anything that meaningful, but it's possible that 13 wins in 60 games is looking at the wrong stats. Does that mean TFCII isn't making good players? Or is the 3 goals and 1 assist for Jordan Hamilton a sign that it's doing something for TFC's youth? Or how Edwards has been performing this year so far. If players are able to step up into the senior team and contribute, that's maybe a better sign than wins and losses at the reserve level? It would of course be better to have both if possible. Only time will tell how their new strategy will pan out, but I'm one of the skeptical ones at the moment.

[Ruffian]

16 minutes ago, Kent said:

I really don't know enough about TFCII to say anything that meaningful, but it's possible that 13 wins in 60 games is looking at the wrong stats. Does that mean TFCII isn't making good players? Or is the 3 goals and 1 assist for Jordan Hamilton a sign that it's doing something for TFC's youth? Or how Edwards has been performing this year so far. If players are able to step up into the senior team and contribute, that's maybe a better sign than wins and losses at the reserve level? It would of course be better to have both if possible. Only time will tell how their new strategy will pan out, but I'm one of the skeptical ones at the moment.

I think TFC are also looking at the psychological effect of having a winning development team. I can see the benefit. They are also looking at the financial bottom line. If the team loses a lot they will not get any fans or any advertising dollars for that team. Maybe if FC Montreal saw more revenue then the Impact would be more inclined to fund the development team. 

[1996]

Trust me TFCII is the cost of doing business for TFC and win or lose it's not like they are going to see any significant change in the few hundred fans they get to their games, like someone said if a change of strategy has been put in to try and be more competitive it has to do with instilling a winning mentality in all their players.

[Kent]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

I really don't know enough about TFCII to say anything that meaningful, but it's possible that 13 wins in 60 games is looking at the wrong stats. Does that mean TFCII isn't making good players? Or is the 3 goals and 1 assist for Jordan Hamilton a sign that it's doing something for TFC's youth? Or how Edwards has been performing this year so far. If players are able to step up into the senior team and contribute, that's maybe a better sign than wins and losses at the reserve level? It would of course be better to have both if possible. Only time will tell how their new strategy will pan out, but I'm one of the skeptical ones at the moment.

He's American, but I'm not sure how I didn't think of Bono when I wrote this.

[Ivan]

Edwards made MLS team of the week for Friday's performance.