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WCQ Honduras - Canada 2 Sept Pre-game

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5 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

I'm disappointed, truly, but I think we are being naive if we think we've enough quality players to truly compete at this level.  We can question Floro's tactics all night long, but he's got a limited talent pool with which to work. I am not saying this as an excuse, but as an explanation. We ARE far below the US and Mexico, and we are certainly well below Costa Rica, Panama and Honduras.  I am not saying I am sold on Floro, but you'll have a tough time convincing me that ANY coach could get a better result out of this group. I love our guys, I truly do, but how many of these guys are playing top football? How many of these guys are even playing ANY football?  Problem is, we don't have many better options. Will Johnson, in his role, could have given us a good 60 minutes, tops.  Osorio, I'm afraid, is just not good enough. (I'm a fan, but he's just too sloppy.) Tiebert would have had the energy to last out a game like this, and I'd have preferred him playing along side Arfield instead of Edgar. (Edgar was fine, but Tiebert is made for that role AND has cardio like nobody else on this team, humidity be damned.)

We are still a decade away from making the Hex. I would love to be proved wrong on Tuesday, but we also need to be realistic. 

 

Well said and level headed. It seems like both the US/Canada struggle to accept the reality that we aren't very good at the beautiful game yet (the former being much better of course). The reactions on this thread is like Deja vu, people who follow canada casually or starting following them the previous cycle expecting unrealistic results going severely against modern history/logic. You're post is spot on and the most "real" I've read in a long. I swear even Mourinho would struggle to get a result here. He can't magically make talent (nor buy it like he does at club level with the ridiculous budget he's given). 

Edited by koolvid

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3 minutes ago, Canadian Pride said:

I think instead of everyone quitting on our team.... We should be sending them best wishes and econcouragement for the next game. 

Why act like quitters ? We still got 1 game and something to hope and cheer for, let's stop being sooo negative. 

If any team can beat Honduras it's Mexioc and in one of the hardest stadiums to play in , in the world, Azteca!

Tell that to floro who conceded defeat with 23 minutes left....

Talk about being negative

Edited by king1010

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To those who think the selection and coaching were the problem today: stop being so silly!!  

We do not have the talent pool required to play at this level. It is improving, but we are still not there. And, no, Osorio would NOT have made a difference. And a new manager? Not unless he's Tinkerbell and can sprinkle some magic dust on our lads. The guys gutted it out today, and when they played compact and organized, they were difficult to break down. But let's be realistic...

Edited by The Beaver

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5 minutes ago, Forlorn said:

Thats not exactly playing for the loss, if ledgerwood was able to help us control the ball more we get a better chance of creating offence than just subbing on another striker. If we cant control the ball and sub someone else on for a second striker that's not playing for the win that's just being dumb.

 

I think the main problem here was the callups, but honestly we just don't have that much quality in general.

Agreed. Subbing in one of our offensive subs would have increased the probability of us scoring by about 0% in my opinion whereas it would have increased the probability of Honduras scoring by something much greater than 0%. We still have a chance and that's better than no chance at all.

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7 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

I'm disappointed, truly, but I think we are being naive if we think we've enough quality players to truly compete at this level.  We can question Floro's tactics all night long, but he's got a limited talent pool with which to work. I am not saying this as an excuse, but as an explanation. We ARE far below the US and Mexico, and we are certainly well below Costa Rica, Panama and Honduras.  I am not saying I am sold on Floro, but you'll have a tough time convincing me that ANY coach could get a better result out of this group. I love our guys, I truly do, but how many of these guys are playing top football? How many of these guys are even playing ANY football?  Problem is, we don't have many better options. Will Johnson, in his role, could have given us a good 60 minutes, tops.  Osorio, I'm afraid, is just not good enough. (I'm a fan, but he's just too sloppy.) Tiebert would have had the energy to last out a game like this, and I'd have preferred him playing along side Arfield instead of Edgar. (Edgar was fine, but Tiebert is made for that role AND has cardio like nobody else on this team, humidity be damned.)

We are still a decade away from making the Hex. I would love to be proved wrong on Tuesday, but we also need to be realistic. 

 

But what is Floro doing? He's been here for 3 years and he's got zero idea of a squad he wants to use. Like absolutely no clue. It just changes. Every game. A lot. 

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2 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

To those who think the selection and coaching were the problem today: stop being so silly!!  

We do not have the talent pool required to play at this level. It is improving, but we are still not there. And, no, Osorio would NOT have made a difference. And a new manager? Not unless he's Tinkerbell and can sprinkle some magic dust on our lads. The guys gutted it out today, and when they played compact and organized, they were difficult to break down. But let's be realistic...

Can't wait until we get a coach who proves this is wrong.

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2 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

But what is Floro doing? He's been here for 3 years and he's got zero idea of a squad he wants to use. Like absolutely no clue. It just changes. Every game. A lot. 

No, he's got a very clear idea of the squad he wants, to the point that most of the fellas here could predict his game selection to a Tee.  He actually surprised me today by playing James at CB, and Edgar in midfield.  If you cannot see what he is doing, then you need to take a closer look. He is trying to get this team to learn how to play tactically and positionally sound football. It is the foundation of successful international football. It was what Spain plays. And Germany. Big difference? Well, you tell me!

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Just now, koolvid said:

Well said and level headed. It seems like both the US/Canada struggle to accept the reality that they aren't very good at the beautiful game yet. The reactions on this thread is like Deja vu, people who follow canada casually or starting following them the previous cycle. You're post is spot on and the most "real" I've read in a long. I swear even Mourinho would struggle to get a result here. He can't magically make talent (nor buy it like he does at club level with the ridiculous budget he's given). 

You're right, it's hard for the US/Canada because of that lack of football "culture", and I'm not talking about fan culture or even footballs role in soceity in general or anything like that , but the culture of producing players who can play the game properly, I remember watching the Mexico game in the Azteca and posting on here about there little number 10, Corona. He was an attacking mid who played with the ball at his feet, he had nice passing and wasn't afraid to beat a man, you can't coach all of these things into a player and sometimes these things have to come naturally, so of course it's hard for Canada with the player pool and all of these other things holding the national setup back, but in saying all of that, sometimes change is best and it looks like Floro's time is up after this campaign is over, unless he can pull it out of the bag on tuesday!! 

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23 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

I'd rather have lost 4-1 then play for the loss. 

But what would you have said if we lost 4-1!  We're minnows, and are frankly punching above our weight.  We got the best result we could today, given how we were playing, and have a chance on Tuesday.

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4 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

Can't wait until we get a coach who proves this is wrong.

Me too!  In the meantime, I will pray that our academies, association and clubs continue to develop better and better players, and a lot more of them.  Then we will have something for a good manager to work with.

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21 minutes ago, matty said:

Alright which experienced manager do you guys see as a realistic replacement for Floro?

Or inexperienced for that matter.  Serious question to all the people who are calling for his head! 

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9 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

But what is Floro doing? He's been here for 3 years and he's got zero idea of a squad he wants to use. Like absolutely no clue. It just changes. Every game. A lot. 

Have you seen our talent pool? World class managers would be shifting our line up all night with how limited and inconsistent our players are. Overall the talent is still poor and no manager will change that in this decade. Most people would agree on this forum that Larin is our top prospect but he has been very poor. But thanks to him performing in a poor defending and inconsistent league he must get called up/played or he will get murdered by the media. Just remember doing good in the MLS does not equal they will be even half that quality at the international level. Just look at  2 time Golden Boot/MVP winner,  MLS legends Chris Wondolowsko with the USA. He's garbage. Our talent pool is still unproven.

Edited by koolvid

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As an outside observer, the coaching is terrible. Did anyone move off the ball at all? No teamwork, no chemistry. And the coach of Canada doesn't have the depth to be feuding with players. And the offensive game plan seemed to consist of trying to get a lucky bounce off of Cyle Larin's head. Horrible Route 1 stuff. 

 

Awful. 

Edited by One American

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1 minute ago, mpg_29 said:

That 0-0 draw with El-Salvador will be that match that will haunt us.  Realistically they are the only team we could expect win away.

Yes, likely. But let's beat those mother-druthers 6-0 all the same. I'm gutted today, but like all the rest of you beautiful masochists, I will get my hopes up for a massive result on Tuesday. (Silly Beaver!)

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4 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

That 0-0 draw with El-Salvador will be the match that will haunt us.  Realistically they are the only team we could expect win away.

Bingo. Why is no one talking about that match.

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1 minute ago, One American said:

As an outside observer, the coaching is terrible. Did anyone move off the ball at all? No teamwork, no chemistry. And the coach of Canada doesn't have the depth to be feuding with players. And the offensive game plan seem to consist of trying to get a lucky bounce off of Cyle Larin's head. 

 

Awful. 

I think the heat had to do a lot of it. Reminded me of the Gold Cup game against Jamaica.

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1 minute ago, Floortom said:

Honestly there is no shame in losing 2-1 at Honduras. Our qualifying was decided when we drew El Salvador's C team and seemed perfectly content to do so.

Coach was happy with an away draw. 

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So Quatar 2022 huh!

I am still holding out for a miracle on Tuesday, but really my heart is already broken.

Quatar is 6 years away. Hutchinson, JDG, Ledgerwood, de Jong, Hainault, Edgar, Jakovic, Vitoria, Ricketts, Johnson and Jackson all likely to be retired by then as they will be 35 or over. Where are we going to get their replacements??? I hope we see some good players come through the systems. 

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Playing in Honduras in that heat is extremely difficult plain and simple. It doesn't really become a soccer game anymore when it's that hot.

chances are if we played in a neutral ground and weather wasn't a factor we could have won like we did in Vancouver against them a few months back.

 

Edited by Canadian Pride

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13 minutes ago, balfe said:

You're right, it's hard for the US/Canada because of that lack of football "culture", and I'm not talking about fan culture or even footballs role in soceity in general or anything like that , but the culture of producing players who can play the game properly, I remember watching the Mexico game in the Azteca and posting on here about there little number 10, Corona. He was an attacking mid who played with the ball at his feet, he had nice passing and wasn't afraid to beat a man, you can't coach all of these things into a player and sometimes these things have to come naturally, so of course it's hard for Canada with the player pool and all of these other things holding the national setup back, but in saying all of that, sometimes change is best and it looks like Floro's time is up after this campaign is over, unless he can pull it out of the bag on tuesday!! 

Exactly that's the reason why Mexico is still much better then the states has proven more internationally, and why Costa Rica beating them every now and then shouldn't be shocking. Those 2 countries have their kids raised playing football, poor or rich that's what they play, watch, and think about. And yeah I can only dream of having a player like Corona, he's not even playing at the highest level yet club wise but look how good he is. To be fair to the Americans they may have their first true prodigy in Christian Pulisic. Although I wouldn't have mind donovan being born canadian lol. Hell even Giovani Dos Santos would be lovely.

Edited by koolvid

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