Hamilton CPL Supporters Thread

[Shortdutchcanuck]

11 hours ago, Macksam said:

 MLS isn’t seen as major league so it will be more like a WHA vs NHL thing imo. 

 Of course MLS is not as good as the best European leagues, but just because you don't like how it is run doesn't make it minor league.  You can argue all day long about its quality compared to Holland or Belgium or Denmark or Sweden but the point remains it is now (and is becoming more and more so) comparable.

To hardcore fans of European leagues MLS might not be considered major league but it has players who soccer fans identify with as major league.  To casual soccer fans in Canada MLS is very much considered the major league of the US and Canada.

I think the CanPL will be successful and will grow in quality as the years go on, to the point where a TFC vs Hamilton match would be very compelling.  But based on salary cap projections in early days the quality level will not be that close, and in such a match Hamilton would be very much the underdog.  

To mimic the WHA right off the bat CanPL would have to sign someone of Bobby Hull calibre away from MLS and I don't see that happening.  That is not to say the style can't be better or the quality decent.  But there will be no Piatti or Giovinco in the league for some time.

[Keegan]

No Giovinco but what’s to stop us from getting a Piatti?  I see no reason why not.. his salary is reasonable or above what he would make elsewhere and the player gets to live in Canada.  If NASL teams can sign guys like Raul, Samaras, Boateng it’s really not far out of reach.. but then again you do have to reach for it and hopefully we have owners who believe in that.

It’s all about the economics.  Even the Indian Super League brought in name players in year one and sure they had the advantage of a massive population but we have the advantage of higher living standards and domestic player quality.

[Shortdutchcanuck]

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

No Giovinco but what’s to stop us from getting a Piatti?  

No reason down the road but based on early salary cap projections in the range of 1.5 million per team and Piatti's salary of approximately 4.7 million it seems a bit of a stretch for year 1.  Even when Piatti was making just over 400,000, to spend over a quarter of your salary cap on one player wouldn't make sense.

[Complete Homer]

3 hours ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

 Of course MLS is not as good as the best European leagues, but just because you don't like how it is run doesn't make it minor league.  You can argue all day long about its quality compared to Holland or Belgium or Denmark or Sweden but the point remains it is now (and is becoming more and more so) comparable.

To hardcore fans of European leagues MLS might not be considered major league but it has players who soccer fans identify with as major league.  To casual soccer fans in Canada MLS is very much considered the major league of the US and Canada.

I think the CanPL will be successful and will grow in quality as the years go on, to the point where a TFC vs Hamilton match would be very compelling.  But based on salary cap projections in early days the quality level will not be that close, and in such a match Hamilton would be very much the underdog.  

To mimic the WHA right off the bat CanPL would have to sign someone of Bobby Hull calibre away from MLS and I don't see that happening.  That is not to say the style can't be better or the quality decent.  But there will be no Piatti or Giovinco in the league for some time.

I don't disagree with you much...but it might end up somewhat compelling from the get go if the rumoured cap is accurate at all. Ignoring DP salary that's only about 3.5 million spent on MLS rosters, about 5 million with TAM. That's a large gap, but a smaller gap than MLS vs USL (and multiple USL teams upset MLS in the open cup this year), and a similar relative gap to a top of the table and a bottom of the table team in most traditional leagues. 

Granted, DPs are pretty key, especially for TFC, but I don't think their impact is so great that the odds would be wore than 10 to 1. Throw in the fact that MLS teams will be greatly outnumbered by CPL clubs (unlike in US open cup), I don't think occasional CPL champions will be surprising

[Shortdutchcanuck]

1 minute ago, Complete Homer said:

 

Granted, DPs are pretty key, especially for TFC, but I don't think their impact is so great that the odds would be wore than 10 to 1. Throw in the fact that MLS teams will be greatly outnumbered by CPL clubs (unlike in US open cup), I don't think occasional CPL champions will be surprising

Completely agree, just arguing with those who seem to think they are going to be equal competing leagues right off the bat.

[Keegan]

1 hour ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Completely agree, just arguing with those who seem to think they are going to be equal competing leagues right off the bat.

I don’t think anyone thinks that the leagues will be competing outside of competition for Canadian talent.  It’s just football and it’s a cup, there will inevitably be upsets and to those who follow other sports that will be seen as pretty cool because it’s not something you see.

We’ll definitely be like a Switzerland to Germany size and strength wise but that doesn’t mean our teams can’t compete and knock off bigger teams. 

[Shortdutchcanuck]

10 minutes ago, Keegan said:

 

11 minutes ago, Keegan said:

It’s just football and it’s a cup, there will inevitably be upsets and to those who follow other sports that will be seen as pretty cool because it’s not something you see.

We’ll definitely be like a Switzerland to Germany size and strength wise but that doesn’t mean our teams can’t compete and knock off bigger teams. 

 

Yeah Switzerland to Germany is probably a pretty good analogy.  And I agree, there will be upsets and a lot of intensity, you can already see the beginnings of it with Blainville-Oakville and Ottawa-Blainville.  You're 100% right it's an aspect of CanPL that will be tremendously exciting and also a new concept for many Canadians.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Considering that until recently players in MLS at the bottom end of the salary scheme had problems paying their bills and could not save a thing (I have this from direct sources I know who were playing 10 years ago), living like college students but without the loans, we can't exagerrate the differences between MLS and a future CPL. The MLS was disgraceful in terms of salary for years. I only hope that CPL can provide living wages, and I am not sure that is going to be the case. 

Have we heard anything about a minimum salary (for me it has to be over 30 grand)? Do they expect those on the lower end to do something else in the offseason, which will be November to February? And will that put the continuity of the league in jeopardy?

[gator]

It will take a while for CPL to approach the quality of MLS, does anyone remember MLS in its early years, it was very poor quality, essentially NCAA players enhanced by a few seasoned pros, even now some of the sides are not much above USL level IMHO!

[Macksam]

23 hours ago, Keegan said:

That’s a better comparison I agree that it will be more like WHA vs NHL.. but that sort of contradicts you saying MLS isn’t seen as major league as clearly the nhl is.

The point is that small Canadian markets will be able to compete with big clubs at the highest level (in North America) - even in hockey we don’t have that. 

The second point is key, CPL clubs will be able to compete with MLS ones. That makes all the difference in the world imo.

When I meant MLS isn't major league, what I really mean is MLS isn't big enough, and won't be miles a head quality wise to CPL, that it will detract people from supporting another club based in a different league.

[Macksam]

18 hours ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Completely agree, just arguing with those who seem to think they are going to be equal competing leagues right off the bat.

No one thinks it will be.

11 hours ago, gator said:

It will take a while for CPL to approach the quality of MLS, does anyone remember MLS in its early years, it was very poor quality, essentially NCAA players enhanced by a few seasoned pros, even now some of the sides are not much above USL level IMHO!

I just think it will be different. MLS, even today, doesn't have that grit, raw ability and passion when it comes to its playing style that you would find in smaller leagues like Uruguay or Croatia's first divisions. The sport here, especially in the GTA (and definitely in Brampton) has a street/inner-city level style that mimics the aforementioned countries. This is something MLS does not have and will be beneficial to us. To me, I don't look at it as "CPL will be less quality soccer", I look at it as CPL will be "different quality soccer" A quality that I find more interesting.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

13 hours ago, gator said:

It will take a while for CPL to approach the quality of MLS,...

When you have a tenth of the population of the other country and the sport has a reasonably comparable level of popularity in both countries, it's not reasonable to expect it to. It's like Scotland and England, basically, but with the added wrinkle of having the Old Firm already entrenched in the English system taking about half the potential fanbase away. If people take the Scottish approach of yes it's not as good but so what it's our league rather than going all latter day NASL about things because of investor egos then it's got a shot at carving out a niche, if they can put a minimum of eight stable franchises together with the solid base of support needed to balance the books. Not mission impossible but no slam dunk either.

[Keegan]

Are the levels of interest reasonably comparable though?  Our TV numbers for MLS for example are far better proportionally.  I’d imagine with the USA not in the World Cup our tv numbers per capita are stronger as well.  

So just checked and ESPN averaged around 270k for MLS games while TSN was around 80-90k.  Let’s call it 85k which translates to 850k meaning that an American League has over 3x the TV popularity per capita in Canada than in the USA.  And this doesn’t account for TFC’s ridiculous playoff numbers which would skew those numbers in Canada’s favour far more.

[baulderdash77]

I think MLS interest is higher in Canada but not massively so.  It’s focused in the 3 MLS cities.  Soccer interest in Canada has typically been higher than the US though.

The TV numbers bear it out and MLS attendance bears it out.  Last time I checked a couple years ago the MLS Canadian teams averaged just over 23k attendance and MLS US teams were right about 20k.

Attendance and ratings of CCL games are similarly higher for Canadian teams.

 

[aldo]

FINAL REMINDER:

⚫️Battalion meet-up
⚫️this evening
⚫️The Capitol Bar
⚫️973 King St E
⚫️7.30pm
⚫️launch planning
⚫️drinks
⚫️merchandise for sale
⚫️don't miss it

Also, we are 7 days away from having our own soccer team.
7 days.
Seven.
Days.
7.

https://www.facebook.com/events/366224753902559/

[grande]

I probably won't be there tonight (if I can make it, I'll be really late). Hope it goes well, and I'm looking forward to next Thursday!    

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, aldo said:

FINAL REMINDER:

⚫️Battalion meet-up
⚫️this evening
⚫️The Capitol Bar
⚫️973 King St E
⚫️7.30pm
⚫️launch planning
⚫️drinks
⚫️merchandise for sale
⚫️don't miss it

Also, we are 7 days away from having our own soccer team.
7 days.
Seven.
Days.
7.

https://www.facebook.com/events/366224753902559/

Could anyone there make merchandise available to anyone not in Hamilton? If it is your merch, could you accept some kind of payment system and send? This would be great if you could set it up.

[aldo]

It has been set up for the last 2 and a half years. We take paypal and post, like most small independant groups do.

[aldo]

Apologies,, email transfer rather than paypal.

[Unnamed Trialist]

22 minutes ago, aldo said:

Apologies,, email transfer rather than paypal.

Could you then give us the links and tell us how, by any chance?

[Rheo]

 

[m-g-williams]

2 hours ago, Rheo said:

 

What would you even call that colour? Like, peach?

[baulderdash77]

I’m going to guess it’s Orange and Graphite Grey or Black.  The colouring of the letters in the last few seconds is my guess.

They’re tight lipped about it.

 

[Tigers]

Hmm.... "Founded" by Hamiltonians...

[King_cheetah]

Very interesting colours! Unique, totally something Hamilton can own.