Ricardo Ferreira

[jpg75]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

We would be bitching because the 3 MLS squads still wouldnt play those kids.  

But that's how they develop....puts a little hair on their chest.

Edited November 15, 2017 by jpg75

[SpecialK]

On 2017-11-04 at 2:50 PM, Bison44 said:

I think CPL will help in a round about kind of way.  More chances to play, bring in more fans, interest etc.  Create a pathway for kids, a place for MLS academy/NCAA kids to continue their career in front of hometown crowds etc.  Sure we will lose some kids that are good enough to play for bigger nations, but having a domestic league (and the MLS teams) working to push soccer forward the ball might actually start to roll for us.  Kids like Ferreira might be more tempted to stay in Canada if we start to develop a bit more of a broader fan base, more clubs, more CDN stars and coaches etc.  I think having a soccer night in canada with Saskatoon playing Halifax with 4-5 CDN on the field for each club will really help.  I know we are all sick of having our "CDN MLS" clubs take the field with no CDN actually on the field.  

The CPL is going to be great for Canada if everything is done right, I truly believe it’s going to do great things for Soccer in this Country and for the Players who are not getting time to showcase their talent.  But I don’t get it, the mind set here. Young Canadian talent should not be staying in North America. The CPL is not going to develop the talent we need like Europe or even South America  can. The Americans have proved this, a bunch of MLS players and a MLS coach failed. If the Americans with a way bigger population then us and way more money and what 30+ pro teams (MLS, USL and NASL ) can’t develop domestic players to get them to their goal, how and why are we expecting 8 to 12 teams  to develop the stars we need. Ferreira wouldn’t have gotten to where he is now staying in Canada or in North America or if he was playing in the CPL. I’m sorry but let’s be honest here, the huge problem we have is once our young talent goes to Europe they jump ship, they don’t come back to play for Canada. We have figure out this issue and fix it. We can create the greatest grassroots program in the world, it won’t mean shit if the players won’t play for Canada. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by SpecialK

[jpg75]

I actually have to disagree with the assessment above. Some of our best development came from the CSL and A-League clubs in the 90's. The league(s) was at a decent level, but not too strong that our best teens and young 20-somethings couldn't break in and cut their teeth. We ended up sending a bunch of players to Europe from the CSL and then in the late 90's from A-League.

[SpecialK]

7 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

I actually have to disagree with the assessment above. Some of our best development came from the CSL and A-League clubs in the 90's. The league(s) was at a decent level, but not too strong that our best teens and young 20-somethings couldn't break in and cut their teeth. We ended up sending a bunch of players to Europe from the CSL and then in the late 90's from A-League.

Is Liam Millar going to get better play against the best young players in England and with great coaches and the  Best training facilities in the world or playing in Halifax with a  temporary stadium and against the Kyle Bekker’s of the CPL ? 

[jpg75]

8 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Is Liam Millar going to get better play against the best young players in England and with great coaches and the  Best training facilities in the world or playing in Halifax with a  temporary stadium and against the Kyle Bekker’s of the CPL ? 

That sounds great, but there are alot of factors involved that it really isn't so simple. If Halifax had a team this season and Liam was in the starting XI and excelling would that not be a good thing? Was it not a good thing for Alex Bunbury, Paul Peschisolido, Jason de Vos, Paul Stalteri etc. What if Liam gets stuck behind a better prospect? What if he has a bad loan spell? etc. 

[SpecialK]

16 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

That sounds great, but there are alot of factors involved that it really isn't so simple. If Halifax had a team this season and Liam was in the starting XI and excelling would that not be a good thing? Was it not a good thing for Alex Bunbury, Paul Peschisolido, Jason de Vos, Paul Stalteri etc. What if Liam gets stuck behind a better prospect? What if he has a bad loan spell? etc. 

I’m curious did we make it to the World Cup with Alex Bunbury , Paul Peschisolido, Jason de Vos, Paul Stalteri?

But Liam is excelling at Liverpool, he even said it himself, in Canada he was the best player not getting better, once he moved it was shocker and he had to get better. Is the CPL going to have top end Coaches like Europe will have? Or the talent that Europe has? Just look at Scott Arfield, nothing against super Scotty but  call a spade a spade he’s an average EPL player but you put him in team Canada he is the best player on the team that’s a scary notion. You match up Cristante to Osorio it’s not even close and Osorio is  arguably Canada’s best  domestically produced midfielder in recent years. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by SpecialK

[harrycoyster]

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

I’m curious did we make it to the World Cup with Alex Bunbury , Paul Peschisolido, Jason de Vos, Paul Stalteri?

But Liam is excelling at Liverpool, he even said it himself, in Canada he was the best player not getting better, once he moved it was shocker and he had to get better. Is the CPL going to have top end Coaches like Europe will have? Or the talent that Europe has? Just look at Scott Arfield, nothing against super Scotty but  call a spade a spade he’s an average EPL player but you put him in team Canada he is the best player on the team that’s a scary notion. You match up Cristante to Osorio it’s not even close and Osorio is  arguably Canada’s best  domestically produced midfielder in recent years. 

Right, but "hope you have a European passport" isn't a great development model. 

[jpg75]

2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I’m curious did we make it to the World Cup with Alex Bunbury , Paul Peschisolido, Jason de Vos, Paul Stalteri?

We came a heck of alot closer than we have since they stopped playing. Last time we made the Hex in '97 we had a handful of CSL alums in the lineup.

[An Observer]

5 hours ago, jpg75 said:

That sounds great, but there are alot of factors involved that it really isn't so simple. If Halifax had a team this season and Liam was in the starting XI and excelling would that not be a good thing? Was it not a good thing for Alex Bunbury, Paul Peschisolido, Jason de Vos, Paul Stalteri etc. What if Liam gets stuck behind a better prospect? What if he has a bad loan spell? etc. 

We would of made it in 94 if more than one side qualified from concacaf. 

[kohanz]

7 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I’m curious did we make it to the World Cup with Alex Bunbury , Paul Peschisolido, Jason de Vos, Paul Stalteri?

But Liam is excelling at Liverpool, he even said it himself, in Canada he was the best player not getting better, once he moved it was shocker and he had to get better. Is the CPL going to have top end Coaches like Europe will have? Or the talent that Europe has? Just look at Scott Arfield, nothing against super Scotty but  call a spade a spade he’s an average EPL player but you put him in team Canada he is the best player on the team that’s a scary notion. You match up Cristante to Osorio it’s not even close and Osorio is  arguably Canada’s best  domestically produced midfielder in recent years. 

You make it sound like the path that Liam has very fortunately landed on (and let's be honest, not without some privilege) is available to every Canadian prospect, but it's far from the truth. Sure, if you could somehow replicate that pipeline for everyone, you'd do it, but it's impossible. Not only are there the passport issues that people have already mentioned, but let's not forget that it takes a tremendous amount of sacrifice from the families (time, financial, sending their kids abroad) to give this approach a chance. Many parents of good prospects are not going to do and it that's their choice. If you develop a system in Canada that supports Canadian players, instead of trying to roll the dice to that every once in a while you get a Liam Millar and he turns into a stud, you train hundreds more in the comfort of their own home country. Is the competition not as good? Probably. But it's a numbers game. You raise the level of football in this country and you're giving hundreds of prospects a chance rather than a handful. I'd take those odds any day.

[Kent]

9 hours ago, SpecialK said:

The Americans have proved this, a bunch of MLS players and a MLS coach failed. If the Americans with a way bigger population then us and way more money and what 30+ pro teams (MLS, USL and NASL ) can’t develop domestic players to get them to their goal, how and why are we expecting 8 to 12 teams  to develop the stars we need.

There have already been a lot of good points about why it's important to develop players locally, but I'd like to address this part of your argument. Yes, it's true the USA didn't qualify for the 2018 World Cup. It's also true that they only qualified for 1 of the 10 World Cups before MLS began play (not counting the 1994 World Cup that they hosted). Since MLS started play USA is now 5 for 6 in terms of qualifications. They made it out of the group stage in 3 of those 5 tournaments, including last year in a very difficult group, and made it to the quarter-finals one year as well.

As for your plan of "let Europe train our players", we've been doing that for 25 years, and we've made it to 0 World Cups in that time. And as people have pointed out above, the closest we got was in qualifying for 1994, followed by 1998, when we still had some players left over that had been developed in our local pro league.

[SpecialK]

47 minutes ago, kohanz said:

You make it sound like the path that Liam has very fortunately landed on (and let's be honest, not without some privilege) is available to every Canadian prospect, but it's far from the truth. Sure, if you could somehow replicate that pipeline for everyone, you'd do it, but it's impossible. Not only are there the passport issues that people have already mentioned, but let's not forget that it takes a tremendous amount of sacrifice from the families (time, financial, sending their kids abroad) to give this approach a chance. Many parents of good prospects are not going to do and it that's their choice. If you develop a system in Canada that supports Canadian players, instead of trying to roll the dice to that every once in a while you get a Liam Millar and he turns into a stud, you train hundreds more in the comfort of their own home country. Is the competition not as good? Probably. But it's a numbers game. You raise the level of football in this country and you're giving hundreds of prospects a chance rather than a handful. I'd take those odds any day.

Improving grassroots and development programs in Canada is important and I'm not saying it isn't.But we can't  expect MLS and CPL to develop the talent we need to get the World Cup and do some damage. We need our young talent to go to Europe or South America to be developed. Yes  there are challenges and sacrifices that players and families have to make, but if your son wants to become elite, families will do it and they have. My question is why the CSA is not helping these kids. We have one young player on this form trying to make it in Denmark and I asked him what support did he have from the CSA and he said none. To me that's bullshit. 

Why isn't the U15/U17/U20 playing more and against good  quality teams, so they can showcase their talent. 

Why isn't there a huge pool of players  being rotated in  when it's not  qualifying time? 

Why isn't there  Financial support for players to train develop and to seek better opportunities . 

Why is there no national training centre so we can develop new coaches and players. Most of icelands  amateur coaches hold a  UEFA B  license and most countries have national training  facilities.

Maybe the CSA should  negotiate with UEFA about work permits. 

Maybe the CSA should  investigate why so many players are choosing not to play for Canada and playing for other nations.  Addressing and fixing the issues. 

[SpecialK]

34 minutes ago, Kent said:

There have already been a lot of good points about why it's important to develop players locally, but I'd like to address this part of your argument. Yes, it's true the USA didn't qualify for the 2018 World Cup. It's also true that they only qualified for 1 of the 10 World Cups before MLS began play (not counting the 1994 World Cup that they hosted). Since MLS started play USA is now 5 for 6 in terms of qualifications. They made it out of the group stage in 3 of those 5 tournaments, including last year in a very difficult group, and made it to the quarter-finals one year as well.

Out of the 5 for 6 times, was the American teams based on MLS players or Aboard players? 

Also im not saying only Europe train our players, South America, Mexico would be good too. They are light years ahead of us. MLS has been around since 94 and talent is not even to close. So we should  expect The CPL to develop the players we need to get us to the promise land ? Come on guys. Also 90s football is not the same as today's football. 

I'm not saying the CPL is not going to be good for Soccer in this country. We need a  domestic league. But I'm saying it's not our saviour for developing young talent. If we rely on the CPL to be that, we are going to fall into amess (maybe even bigger mess) just like the Americans have. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by SpecialK

[matty]

@SpecialK stop arguing bad points

[matty]

@SpecialK you are legit making no fucking sense

[BuzzAndSting]

13 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Improving grassroots and development programs in Canada is important and I'm not saying it isn't.But we can't  expect MLS and CPL to develop the talent we need to get the World Cup and do some damage. We need our young talent to go to Europe or South America to be developed. Yes  there are challenges and sacrifices that players and families have to make, but if your son wants to become elite, families will do it and they have. My question is why the CSA is not helping these kids. We have one young player on this form trying to make it in Denmark and I asked him what support did he have from the CSA and he said none. To me that's bullshit. 

You should look at the rosters of some previous and current WC attendees. Many rely on domestic leagues that are much weaker than MLS and will be weaker than the CPL. The standouts will always go to Europe but a domestic league will be where the bulk of your player pool will be developed and as we see time and time again in WCs, teams with decent domestic leagues can create WC caliber teams.

South Korea - 4 players in Europe.

Iran - 8 players in Europe.

Saudi Arabia - 0 players in Europe.

Tunisia - 6 players in Europe

Panama - 6 players in Europe.

Costa Rica - 7 players in Europe.

Columbia - 7 Players in Europe.

And no offence to the kid in Denmark but he doesn't qualify for support because he's not a NT carded athlete, if he was he'd be receiving money from the CSA and feds. You can't be suggesting the CSA waste resources on any kid who moves to Europe and tries to make a career out of playing football, are you? There's 200+ kids around the globe trying to make it, if we gave them all just $15 000 per year that would be $3M annually!

[SpecialK]

16 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

And no offence to the kid in Denmark but he doesn't qualify for support because he's not a NT carded athlete, if he was he'd be receiving money from the CSA and feds. You can't be suggesting the CSA waste resources on any kid who moves to Europe and tries to make a career out of playing football, are you? There's 200+ kids around the globe trying to make it, if we gave them all just $15 000 per year that would be $3M annually!

I'm sorry if my comments are making sense to people. 

Im not saying the CSA should just throw money at any player,  criteria's need to be met for sure. But in other sports there are funds, support and services available to elite young players, why can't the CSA put together something. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by SpecialK

[BuzzAndSting]

2 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

I'm sorry if my comments are making sense to people. 

Im not saying the CSA should just throw money at any player,  criteria's need to be met for sure. But in other sports there are funds, support and services available to elite young players, why can't the CSA put together something. 

We have that, it's for NT eligible players. If they're part of a NT camp they can apply through Athletes Assistance Program. Dozens and dozens of boys youth players have been apart of the program over the years. 

[matty]

5 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

I'm sorry if my comments are making sense to people. 

Im not saying the CSA should just throw money at any player,  criteria's need to be met for sure. But in other sports there are funds, support and services available to elite young players, why can't the CSA put together something. 

the government does provide funding to soccer players

[SpecialK]

2 minutes ago, matty said:

the government does provide funding to soccer players

Beautiful ! That's great 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

@admin can you remind people to stay on topic/ threaten to lock the thread?

Edited November 15, 2017 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[matty]

5 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Maybe the CSA should  negotiate with UEFA about work permits. 

I totally just remembered this but anyone else remember when the Chinese FA's light partner negotiated a deal where they would sponsor Portugal's second tier and in return 10 Chinese players and 3 coaches were to join the leagues top clubs? Remember how the move was labeled illegal by Portugal's player union?

[jpg75]

If anything is getting negotiated in terms of work permits it would be at the federal government level, not by the CSA. Now, with the CETA being ratified i'm curious what the provisions are in terms of free movement of labour? Will there be something similar to the Canada-Germany labour agreement?

[matty]

8 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

If anything is getting negotiated in terms of work permits it would be at the federal government level, not by the CSA. Now, with the CETA being ratified i'm curious what the provisions are in terms of free movement of labour? Will there be something similar to the Canada-Germany labour agreement?

The only way I see a special deal being hammered out between parties in UEFA and parties in Canadian soccer is privately between club to club, which would be another reason the CPL is more important than K realises.

Also I'm sure these are already being ton by some of the boutique academies. Dutch Connection for example works with Feyenoord. Not to mention the Impact.

Edited November 15, 2017 by matty

[Unnamed Trialist]

He has been totally committed to Portugal from a very young age, has been in the mix with their youth teams, and is clearly being given huge incentives to stay in their picture. Regardless of his difficulties in certain matches. I think he is one of the least likely players to even sniff our way.