Canadians in MLS 2016 Season

[Keegan]

12 hours ago, TRM said:

Teibert is not a token anything. Nobody is kept around as a token. This is pro sports.

He is a good player and has made the gameday 18 every game when he wasn't injured. He has some great qualities but seems to have plateaued at the 18 level. Hopefully he keeps working and starts cracking the starting 11. 

You have to ask yourself if you were in his shoes "why would I move?". From residency to on the roster to gameday 18 and making $115k to $180k a year. You are in an organization that has helped develop you, pays you great and has plans for you as they have given you a contract extension just 2 years ago. There is no guarantee that if he moves he will be a starter any more than others who have left. Unless he goes to a lower level which would be undesirable from all angles.

He is 23 and may move on at some point but he may also break out of his plateau and get more starts where he is.

I never meant that they are keeping him around as just a token.  My point was that they have no plans for him in their XI, this is his 6th season in the first team and nothing has changed.  He's good enough for the bench/rotation in their eyes and is conveniently a homegrown.  This happens all over, even at a club like Newcastle but its not an enviable position for someone who wants to be a serious international.  

If I had to ask myself why he would move?  He is 23, which is the same age as kids coming out of college every year.  The same age as Tim Parker who has solidified a XI role at Vancouver.  It's not an age where something will just magically happen if it hasn't in the previous 5 seasons.  So he has the option of staying in Vancouver and being potentially passed over by their future residency players coming through, being paid comfortably, in a city and on a team he loves while being a fringe national team player OR he can take a risk, move on and develop himself as a player and see what happens... and who knows?  Maybe he can come back to Vancouver if things don't work out.

We haven't seen him develop enough in the past 2-3 years to expect anything different in the next 2-3.  

[BuzzAndSting]

11 hours ago, Free kick said:

One might be able to make a case that Giovinco might be underpaid at 7 mill per year.   Just from what i have seen in the stands (occupied seats) this year and in the later parts of last year compared to the year before Giovinco's arrival.  Without hard numbers at my disposal, i am guessing conservatively 6-8k more butts in the seats on average.  Which is important when you expand the facility and add inventory becasue it means you dont have to drop the prices to fill it up.   Then figure that any of those extra 6-8k cant escape spending 10-20 bucks if they just go to the concessions.   Thirdly, I am seeing a lot Giovinco jersey's around.    Do the rough math based just on all that.   

those extra 6-8k fans are not there because of any of those guys that are making 50-60K.   Even they would understand that.

Again, I totally agree. My argument is not whether Gio is worth it and whether the fans believe Gio is worth it, my argument is whether his teammates have an issue with his or Bradley's salaries and whether they're worth it. I think they're worth it but I don't have to deal with the realities of living in one of the most expensive cities in Canada on a $50K salary while playing regular minutes next to a guy making 100 times what I make. 

[Bison44]

If I was Chapman or Babouli I would definately devleop a case of alligator arms at the Italian restaraunt when the cheque came. "You want some service MR GIO, you want us to win the ball back for you.... you better pick up the tab for pizza hut all you can eat special for us guys filling out the roster."  

[Gian-Luca]

May 25th - Larin with his 7th goal of the season for Orlando in what is currently a 2-2 draw against Philadelphia. Cyle is taken out in the 84th minute.

[TRM]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

May 25th - Larin with his 7th goal of the season for Orlando in what is currently a 2-2 draw against Philadelphia. Cyle is taken out in the 84th minute.

Don't know how they called that a goal unless the keeper's hands were in the net when he blocked the shot in the air. That was the only time when the ball could have been over. Hard to tell from the replay angle but I'm glad to see Cyle getting more goals. His run was good and his finish was on target.

[Bison44]

Boy, 7 goals in 11 games, if he ever learns to not waste all his chances he might make a decent striker.  

[jpg75]

4 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Boy, 7 goals in 11 games, if he ever learns to not waste all his chances he might make a decent striker.  

This is hilarious, the second time my question has been ridiculed in the past 12 hours. So 7 goals in 11 games makes any critique of his game go away? What if he was able to put away more chances and score 30 goals per season? What if we had a potential world-class striker on our hands? Nah let's just be content with "good enough". What if Orlando's entire offense goes through him and the quality of service and sheer volume of chances explain his scoring rate? What if that explains his lack of scoring for Canada and could potentially foreshadow a drop in scoring if he were to move to a defensively oriented club team when he leaves MLS? Should we change the personnel or tactics of our MNT to better utilize Larin's skills? Should we use another forward who can score without service (ok we can all stop laughing now)?

Questions, discussion. The whole reason we are all here.

[jonovision]

I don't think the correct criticism of Larin is that he squanders chances, at least based on a season and a bit of evidence. Last year his shooting percentage, or some equivalent stat, was very high (probably unsustainably so) and despite missing a few sitters he is still scoring this year.

The bigger issue, and the one that jumps out when he plays for Canada, is that he really doesn't have the ability to create chances on his own. By the standards of MLS strikers, he is a pretty clinical finisher, but without Kaka and others putting it on a plate for him he often looks pretty ordinary.

[shamrock]

There's not a striker in the world who doesn't miss big chances. The great strikers are able to forget those missed opportunities and focus on the ones to come. 

Like jonovision said, you can be critical on his overall involvement in play, but not on his ability to score goals. 

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

The bigger issue, and the one that jumps out when he plays for Canada, is that he really doesn't have the ability to create chances on his own. By the standards of MLS strikers, he is a pretty clinical finisher, but without Kaka and others putting it on a plate for him he often looks pretty ordinary.

He's scoring and that's priority one of what we need but there other important areas of his game where he needs to be more consistent, such as in hold up play and the mental side/"compete" part of his game.  Can he raise his game to meet the standards of a higher level league.  If he has the fortitude and is coachable, he'll take it to the next level.

[Bison44]

JPG75..take a chill pill.  If we are here for questions and discussion, then its ok that someone takes up a contrary position.  We have some world class strikers in MLS (some a little past their prime, HEHE).  Drogba, Giovinco, D. Villa, Keane etc,  They all miss chances, everyone is not efficient as they could be.  But his 17 goals last year would have put him in the top 5 almost every year in the last 15 MLS seasons.  Only a handful of MLS players have gotten over 25 goals, EVER.  17 would have led the league a few years.  And he is on track to duplicate or better that this year.  

I was worried it might be a fluke, but he is continuing to knock alot of his chances in, and continue to produce goals out of almost nothing sometimes.  You are 100% correct about flaws in his game and the way canada uses him but we shouldn't expect him to be the second coming of pele after 1.5 seasons.  I dont think his development is stagnating and nobody is saying lets settle for good enough.  But lets not jump on his back too much for wasting alot of chances, he is still converting way more of them than lots of pretty good strikers.  

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

He's scoring and that's priority one of what we need but there other important areas of his game where he needs to be more consistent, such as in hold up play and the mental side/"compete" part of his game.  Can he raise his game to meet the standards of a higher level league.  If he has the fortitude and is coachable, he'll take it to the next level.

I'm not exactly sure what this means or how much stock, if any, should be placed upon it, but last week Larin topped the "Audi MLS Player Index:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/05/24/audi-mls-player-index-week-12-who-finished-top-20

 

 

 

 

[BearcatSA]

6 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I'm not exactly sure what this means or how much stock, if any, should be placed upon it, but last week Larin topped the "Audi MLS Player Index:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/05/24/audi-mls-player-index-week-12-who-finished-top-20

Not sure how they grade it, but that's good for him for this week.  I see that in the 12 weeks he's made the top 20 three other times (in the top 10 for Weeks 1, 2, and 8).

[El Hombre]

5 hours ago, jonovision said:

The bigger issue, and the one that jumps out when he plays for Canada, is that he really doesn't have the ability to create chances on his own. By the standards of MLS strikers, he is a pretty clinical finisher, but without Kaka and others putting it on a plate for him he often looks pretty ordinary.

I don't think that's entirely true.  This year he seems to have developed an understanding with Kaka, but I don't think that was the case last year when he was scoring.  A good number of his goals over the past two seasons have been due to his incredible release and not the case of him converting a sitter based on a pinpoint cross.  He has a number of goals over the last 12 months where he was sitting at the top of the box and somehow got enough power on it to put it in the top corner.

For some reason I get the feeling that he's still timid when he plays with the MNT and doesn't have the swagger (ie. selfishness) that he is developing with Orlando City.  I think that might be part of the reason.  I think he can be a game breaker for Canada, even without the service, but he needs to take the bull by the horns a bit more.

[jpg75]

Babouli, Johnson and Osorio start for TFC. Morgan subs on for Gio in the middle of the 1st half. Hamilton on for Morrow around 58'. Chapman on for Lovitz in the 78'. 

3 Canadians start the match, 6 Canucks finish the match.

[Keegan]

37 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Babouli, Johnson and Osorio start for TFC. Morgan subs on for Gio in the middle of the 1st half. Hamilton on for Morrow around 58'. Chapman on for Lovitz in the 78'. 

3 Canadians start the match, 6 Canucks finish the match.

I posted this in the Canadians Abroad thread but I thought Johnson was fantastic tonight.  Probably the best effort by a player not named Giovinco so far this season.

Unlucky on the PK.  Encroaching needs to be the footy equivalent of going offside on a 2 on 0 in hockey.  

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

Babouli, Johnson and Osorio start for TFC. Morgan subs on for Gio in the middle of the 1st half. Hamilton on for Morrow around 58'. Chapman on for Lovitz in the 78'. 

3 Canadians start the match, 6 Canucks finish the match.

Which was probably the only good news on the day for TFC fans (and only then if you care about Canadian players). 

I look forward to the Babouli-Hamilton starting combo for the Canadian championship, though I figured that might happen anyway even without Giovinco hurt

[TRM]

No Aird but Teibert goes 90 and is then subbed by Kianz. Morales and a Houston player were both red carded for an altercation just before the half. After that Teibert was taking on the role of midfield play maker and was very effective. Nice through ball to Manneh, effective and accurate swinging the ball from one side to the other.

PS. Yes we went back to the 4-5-1 with 2 DMs in front of the back 4 until Morales got sent off. Then it became more of a 4-1-3-1 with Russ doing half & half on the DM + AM roles.

[aloyol]

Not a bad night on a Canadian fan perspective when 6 canadians played for TFC while 4 (Bekker, Tissot, Bernier and Lefevre) saw the field in Montreal 3-2 win over LA.

[jpg75]

1 hour ago, TRM said:

PS. Yes we went back to the 4-5-1 with 2 DMs in front of the back 4 until Morales got sent off. Then it became more of a 4-1-4-1 with Russ doing half & half on the DM + AM roles.

4-1-3-1 i'm guessing? 

[TRM]

7 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

4-1-3-1 i'm guessing? 

Yes. Been a great day to drink beer and watch Champions League then MLS. Too much beer makes math bad

They showed it on TV as the 4-4-1-1 but Manneh was out wide mostly and Rivero was alone up top. After letting in 7 goals in 2 games I'm not surprised we went back to our basic formation.

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, aloyol said:

Not a bad night on a Canadian fan perspective when 6 canadians played for TFC while 4 (Bekker, Tissot, Bernier and Lefevre) saw the field in Montreal 3-2 win over LA.

Two of those goals (the first and the last) gave a whole new definition to the word "dodgy."

[Dub Narcotic]

5 hours ago, TRM said:

Yes. Been a great day to drink beer and watch Champions League then MLS. Too much beer makes math bad

They showed it on TV as the 4-4-1-1 but Manneh was out wide mostly and Rivero was alone up top. After letting in 7 goals in 2 games I'm not surprised we went back to our basic formation.

Manneh only went wide when Morales got sent off.

[aloyol]

6 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Two of those goals (the first and the last) gave a whole new definition to the word "dodgy."

Bush calling for the ball and hesitating made Tissot look bad on that first goal but IMO it's 100% on Bush.

Let's not talk about the Drogba goal...that was ugly.

[farrelld]

5 hours ago, aloyol said:

Bush calling for the ball and hesitating made Tissot look bad on that first goal but IMO it's 100% on Bush.

Let's not talk about the Drogba goal...that was ugly.

 

50/50 Bush and Tissot you can't just turtle there you either clear it out or clear the space for the keeper. Also Tissot looks like he's about to jump and then just stops and turtles.

That why Bush was punching everything he was unsure about after the first goal