Canadian Premier League

[elGuapo]

Maritimes should have a team. halifax, st johns, etc. Moncton probably best city to expand to, already have a 10k capacity stadium, & cfl played there for touchdown atlantic. 

[baulderdash77]

It's too bad that Halifax doesn't have a stadium because I'd love to see a team in Atlantic Canada too.

The problem with Moncton is that it's too small of a city and the corporate footprint is too small.  The corporate footprint of all Atlantic Canada is big enough though and Atlantic Canada's businesses have banded together for things like Touchdown Atlantic as far as sponsorship's go.

I just don't think they could get 5,000 to 8,000 people per game every game.  I wouldn't be shocked if they could get 3,000 fans per game but a metro of 140,000 isn't enough to get enough fans in the stands.  They can do it for Touchdown Atlantic events but that's a special occasion and people come from several hours away for those games.

 

 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

7 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

Regina Rovers or Regina Rangers has come to mind. 

 

I'd love to see Victoria Highlanders, Calgary Foothills FC, Hamilton Steelers. All great names with roots in their respective places. 

Totally, and i'll be amazed if that isn't eventually the case.  Highlanders, Footsoldiers and Steelers all work pretty damn well as nicknames too, a la EPL.

[shermanator]

10 minutes ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

Totally, and i'll be amazed if that isn't eventually the case.  Highlanders, Footsoldiers and Steelers all work pretty damn well as nicknames too, a la EPL.

Foot Soldiers is taken, get your own name! 

[coppercanuck]

The more I think about it, I like the idea of three feeder leagues; BC, ON and QC.  At least leagues centered in those areas for now.  Last place team in the CPL plus the 3 winners get together at a central site to play the standard group RR, winner gets to the CPL.

With this method, players don't all need to be drafted into the big teams.  It's a hope.

[Oranje]

13 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

It's too bad that Halifax doesn't have a stadium because I'd love to see a team in Atlantic Canada too.

The problem with Moncton is that it's too small of a city and the corporate footprint is too small.  The corporate footprint of all Atlantic Canada is big enough though and Atlantic Canada's businesses have banded together for things like Touchdown Atlantic as far as sponsorship's go.

I just don't think they could get 5,000 to 8,000 people per game every game.  I wouldn't be shocked if they could get 3,000 fans per game but a metro of 140,000 isn't enough to get enough fans in the stands.  They can do it for Touchdown Atlantic events but that's a special occasion and people come from several hours away for those games.

 

 

Moncton has THE corporate backing with Irving, which basically owns New Brunswick and large chunks of the rest of the Maritimes. Only comparison you can make is with the Wildcats who averaged just under 4500 over the past 5 years. Halifax on the other hand has 2 universities right downtown that they could partner with to use stadia.

[mtlsab]

19 hours ago, coppercanuck said:

The more I think about it, I like the idea of three feeder leagues; BC, ON and QC.  At least leagues centered in those areas for now.  Last place team in the CPL plus the 3 winners get together at a central site to play the standard group RR, winner gets to the CPL.

With this method, players don't all need to be drafted into the big teams.  It's a hope.

Good idea, that what happens in Germany and other countried for the pro/rel system

[Oranje]

20 hours ago, coppercanuck said:

The more I think about it, I like the idea of three feeder leagues; BC, ON and QC.  At least leagues centered in those areas for now.  Last place team in the CPL plus the 3 winners get together at a central site to play the standard group RR, winner gets to the CPL.

With this method, players don't all need to be drafted into the big teams.  It's a hope.

I say avoid a draft at all costs. Having CPL clubs paying for feeder-league talent spurs investment into grassroots investment, which, in essence, is the goal of the CPL.

[mtlsab]

22 minutes ago, Oranje said:

I say avoid a draft at all costs. Having CPL clubs paying for feeder-league talent spurs investment into grassroots investment, which, in essence, is the goal of the CPL.

You're right! Draft can't work since we have foreign clubs that can pick the players. Partnership between amateurs (D3) clubs and universities can be an issue for sharing staff, stadium and players

[baulderdash77]

A draft can absolutely work from the CIS and NCAA pools.  Yes international teams can pick up these players, but that simply isn't happening.  A 2 round CPL draft picking up 12-16 good NCAA and CIS players will create a pathway that does not exist for a pro player.  We have 250 student athletes graduating from these streams and how many of them get drafted?  1 or 2 maybe? 

The existing MLS draft is not good for Canadian players because MLS teams are reluctant to use a foreign player spot on a draft pick.  In fact the number of Canadians playing in the CIS and NCAA D1 combined is more than the NCAA D1.  

I'm not saying that the CIS=NCAA D1 in quality but I'm saying there is a broad talent pool of Canadians playing university soccer. We have a lot of talent slipping through the cracks and a CanPL draft is without a doubt the good way to reach that player pool.  

Just taking a look at the latest 23 man USMNT they had 17 players come through the draft and 20 players come through the NCAA system.  Let's not be arrogant and say that academies are the only way to develop players when the US program certainly gets the lions share of it's talent that way.

 

[baulderdash77]

41 minutes ago, mtlsab said:

You're right! Draft can't work since we have foreign clubs that can pick the players. Partnership between amateurs (D3) clubs and universities can be an issue for sharing staff, stadium and players

Name me 10 players from university each year that get picked by a foreign club?  Name me more than 2 per year?  This assertion is pure fiction.

Players from the US NCAA can also sign with foreign leagues.  But guess what, 75 players this year got drafted into MLS without getting signed elsewhere.  

A draft is about structured opportunity.  That's what it's for.  Right now we have no structured opportunity for Canadians that functions systematically.  If we're going to have a CanPL, then we may as well create that system as well.

[Oranje]

1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

Name me 10 players from university each year that get picked by a foreign club?  Name me more than 2 per year?  This assertion is pure fiction.

I was aiming more at CPL buying players from the lower divisions, which would ideally be re-invested into the clubs youth development. This does leave it open to foreign clubs beating CPL to the punch/out bidding though. 

[mtlsab]

1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

Name me 10 players from university each year that get picked by a foreign club?  Name me more than 2 per year?  This assertion is pure fiction.

Players from the US NCAA can also sign with foreign leagues.  But guess what, 75 players this year got drafted into MLS without getting signed elsewhere.  

A draft is about structured opportunity.  That's what it's for.  Right now we have no structured opportunity for Canadians that functions systematically.  If we're going to have a CanPL, then we may as well create that system as well.

Olivier Occean was drafted but he signed in Europe, I know that it happens every year but I don't have any name. I think it happened 2 years ago for a player drafter by Montreal Impact

[baulderdash77]

So the argument against a draft is because Olivier Occean and "some guy Montreal drafted"?  I think you proved my point for me.

What about the opportunity that a CanPL draft would give to 12-16 university kids each year?

Also in general I'm not in favour of academies and small clubs that are pay to play getting fees for developing players.  If your making parents pay 5,000 dollars per year for 6 years to play at your academy; I'd say that you've been compensated for the development.  

 

[Blackdude]

Rob Friend was drafted and went to Europe. I'm sure that there are more, but we don't really hear about them because they've never made the US national team.

[SuperCanuck]

On 22 February, 2016 at 8:38 PM, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

certainly it would have to be simplified slightly for a patch.  that's easy though.  

Idk, sure I could leave out the soccer ball but I thought it worked.  

I like the ball in this because it's understated, just around the outside.  I thought it was quite clever, actually.

[SuperCanuck]

On 23 February, 2016 at 10:45 AM, rob.notenboom said:

My quote thingy is broken on my phone again. Cripes!

 

The Saskatchewanderers!

No, too short.

[Oranje]

11 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

So the argument against a draft is because Olivier Occean and "some guy Montreal drafted"?  I think you proved my point for me.

What about the opportunity that a CanPL draft would give to 12-16 university kids each year?

Also in general I'm not in favour of academies and small clubs that are pay to play getting fees for developing players.  If your making parents pay 5,000 dollars per year for 6 years to play at your academy; I'd say that you've been compensated for the development.

 

I'd think transfer fees could help lead away from pay-to-play a it replacement for revenue generated from parents. It will not be an immediate transformation but I could see the no-fee academies eclipsing the for-fee systems.

[ted]

NO draft. Dumbest idea in sports ever, and one N. American "tradition" that should die a horrible, painful death.

[soccerfromsauga]

18 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

A draft can absolutely work from the CIS and NCAA pools.  Yes international teams can pick up these players, but that simply isn't happening.  A 2 round CPL draft picking up 12-16 good NCAA and CIS players will create a pathway that does not exist for a pro player.  We have 250 student athletes graduating from these streams and how many of them get drafted?  1 or 2 maybe? 

The existing MLS draft is not good for Canadian players because MLS teams are reluctant to use a foreign player spot on a draft pick.  In fact the number of Canadians playing in the CIS and NCAA D1 combined is more than the NCAA D1.  

I'm not saying that the CIS=NCAA D1 in quality but I'm saying there is a broad talent pool of Canadians playing university soccer. We have a lot of talent slipping through the cracks and a CanPL draft is without a doubt the good way to reach that player pool.  

Just taking a look at the latest 23 man USMNT they had 17 players come through the draft and 20 players come through the NCAA system.  Let's not be arrogant and say that academies are the only way to develop players when the US program certainly gets the lions share of it's talent that way.

 

I completely agree. Listen, I know the CIS game really well and know for a fact there are A LOT of quality Canadians playing across the country (Guarantee a lot more than any of you give credit to). A draft simply opens up opportunities for guys to aspire to. We keep talking about how there's nowhere for our players to go... For the guys who choose the university route, a CPL draft would be THAT chance! 

Off the top of my head, I can name players who played in the CIS to go pro (Chris Serban, Gagan Dosanjh, Chad Bush, Andrew McRae, Tyson Farago, John Smits, Michael Cox, Shamit Shome, Matt Stinson, Mark-Anthony Kaye); I bet you there's even more! Sure some of these players have had previous pro experiences but all these players are only a 1, 2, or 3 years removed from CIS soccer. There's quality, a draft will only enhance it and will allow for guys to be seen!

51 minutes ago, ted said:

NO draft. Dumbest idea in sports ever, and one N. American "tradition" that should die a horrible, painful death.

Disagree. The student-athlete experience is unparalleled. Being able to play high-quality soccer and earn a degree is rivalled across the world - take a look at some CIS rosters; some have a lot of guys from the UK who want to come to Canada to be able to study and still play at a high level.

By saying no to a draft you're eliminating opportunities for the Canadian kids who play NOW. What about those ones? Isn't the whole point of CPL to create opportunities for Canadians?

 

[Oranje]

27 minutes ago, soccerfromsauga said:

I completely agree. Listen, I know the CIS game really well and know for a fact there are A LOT of quality Canadians playing across the country (Guarantee a lot more than any of you give credit to). A draft simply opens up opportunities for guys to aspire to. We keep talking about how there's nowhere for our players to go... For the guys who choose the university route, a CPL draft would be THAT chance!

Off the top of my head, I can name players who played in the CIS to go pro (Chris Serban, Gagan Dosanjh, Chad Bush, Andrew McRae, Tyson Farago, John Smits, Michael Cox, Shamit Shome, Matt Stinson, Mark-Anthony Kaye); I bet you there's even more! Sure some of these players have had previous pro experiences but all these players are only a 1, 2, or 3 years removed from CIS soccer. There's quality, a draft will only enhance it and will allow for guys to be seen!

Disagree. The student-athlete experience is unparalleled. Being able to play high-quality soccer and earn a degree is rivalled across the world - take a look at some CIS rosters; some have a lot of guys from the UK who want to come to Canada to be able to study and still play at a high level.

By saying no to a draft you're eliminating opportunities for the Canadian kids who play NOW. What about those ones? Isn't the whole point of CPL to create opportunities for Canadians?

 

Why does no draft eliminate them? Why can't they just be signed by a CPL team once they graduate. This isn't NBA where the top teir of NCAA basketball players are only going to collage so they can opt into the draft as soon as possible. Canadians in the CIS predominantly chose their school based on Education, even those on scholarships. Why can't a CPL team approach a budding CIS talent in years 3 or 4 with intent on having them try out and win a contract? A draft awards the worst teams and based on previous posts, I am a huge proponent for promotion/relegation, so it makes no sense to me.

[Rheo]

10 minutes ago, Oranje said:

Why does no draft eliminate them? Why can't they just be signed by a CPL team once they graduate. This isn't NBA where the top teir of NCAA basketball players are only going to collage so they can opt into the draft as soon as possible. Canadians in the CIS predominantly chose their school based on Education, even those on scholarships. Why can't a CPL team approach a budding CIS talent in years 3 or 4 with intent on having them try out and win a contract? A draft awards the worst teams and based on previous posts, I am a huge proponent for promotion/relegation, so it makes no sense to me.

The North American sporting tradition is to create the sense of optimism for every team and their fans so that there's always hope that they can get back to a level of respectability.  The draft is part of that.  Parity is a big thing.  Also doesn't theoretically allow for the powerful to stay powerful infinitely.

You can romanticize the European traditions all you want but they'll never fly over here, not initially.  The sporting public at large won't understand/tolerate them.  

[Oranje]

1 hour ago, Rheo said:

The North American sporting tradition is to create the sense of optimism for every team and their fans so that there's always hope that they can get back to a level of respectability.  The draft is part of that.  Parity is a big thing.  Also doesn't theoretically allow for the powerful to stay powerful infinitely.

You can romanticize the WORLD traditions all you want but they'll never fly over here, not initially.  The sporting public at large won't understand/tolerate them.

FYP

[ted]

2 hours ago, soccerfromsauga said:

The student-athlete experience is unparalleled. Being able to play high-quality soccer and earn a degree is rivalled across the world - take a look at some CIS rosters; some have a lot of guys from the UK who want to come to Canada to be able to study and still play at a high level.

By saying no to a draft you're eliminating opportunities for the Canadian kids who play NOW. What about those ones? Isn't the whole point of CPL to create opportunities for Canadians?

You are over estimating the quality of soccer played at universities. It is not "high-quality" compared to first-team, professional soccer.  The only reason to get a college degree is if you are not going to play full-time professional soccer. It is a back-up plan or for a post-soccer career. Since going to school at any age is encouraged and easy I would never suggest a player with real professional ambitions go to school full time rather than train and play professionally.

Canadian "kids" can play as soon as there are teams. Once again, colleges, especially Canadian institutions, are a stop-gap measure until we have enough professional clubs. Kids who want to play NOW should find the best club or team they can get on and if that is a college team, well OK. BUt as soon as pro spots open up they should be signing where they get paid rather than this anti-competitive system of professional slavery that is the draft.

The reason players in England and Germany and virtually anywhere else do not play college football is that players need to be signed by pro teams by about age 16 and have no need to pretend that college ball is in any way significant. The US college system is warped and has been shaped by the history of the game but already is becoming irrelevant to developing MLS players.

[baulderdash77]

Another world soccer tradition is to have 1-2 super teams in a country with a bunch of tomato can teams that alternate with getting promoted or relegated.

I really don't want those traditions in our sports league.  It's one of the things that makes North American leagues so much better than other leagues.

Im really in favour of a NA style CanPL.  That includes a draft, salary cap and no pro/rel (which I think is utterly ridiculous for Soccer in Canada) .  It's the path to long term stability for a league.