Canadian Premier League

[Rheo]

24 minutes ago, Ansem said:

A Canadian League without Ottawa and Edmonton makes no sense. Agree to disagree

I hope they come into the league but I don't think there should be this big rush to put competing teams into markets that aren't exactly doing a booming business with one team.  I don't think the league people are that foolish or reckless.

I believe that the CPL will go where they're wanted, establish the league and then others will want to join.  

I'm just saying I think people need to get grounded in reality.  There's a lot of putting the cart ahead of the horse around here, even more so with the announcement.  The league can succeed without Ottawa or Edmonton.  It's better with them in it but not as the possible cost killing multiple teams. 

But agree to disagree

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Rheo said:

I don't think there shoulbe be this big rush to put competing teams into markets that aren't exactly doing a booming business with one team

I think it's more a reflection on NASL than the team or soccer

[Complete Homer]

2 hours ago, Steedman said:

Would what the Victoria Highlanders and Calgary Foothills have to dish out ($$$) to abandon the USL PDL?

*Half serious question

My understanding is that the Foothills wouldn't as longstanding members. The Highlanders are in year 2 of a 3 year commitment, so in the hypothetical scenario where a big investor comes along to launch a CPL team, they'd have to pay an exit fee 

[Gian-Luca]

12 hours ago, Ansem said:

Some will, you obviously do. I don't. I'd rather buy Canadian than American, that's just me. As for the rest of the country where MLS a failed to penetrate those Canadian markets, they will go to CPL way ahead of MLS

Why are you so obsess with the same level of play? Is San Jose Earthquakes on the same level as TFC? What matters is that they can compete and I don't think a CPL team gets blown out 8-0. Being competitive is what matters.

Rogers? It's for the Jays

Brand new 30k? Can we start with a 10k somewhere in Toronto, ideally near a subway line?

Let me give you a reality check, Toronto is big enough for more than 1 club, stop buying the Maple Leafs pills who keep spreading that there should be only 1 club for Toronto.

Fledgling Canadian Premier League could come to Waterloo Region

 

http://m.therecord.com/sports-story/7294235-fledgling-canadian-premier-league-could-come-to-waterloo-region

 

HELL NO if you mean dumping their B Teams

Not at first. Why does it have to be all or nothing? What about "progression"? Give it time. If CFL over time was able to have big attendances and great viewership (superior to MLS mind you), why can't CPL I=within 10 years?

I certainly hope that the CPL doesn't move the goalposts during play as much as you like to do during these posts. Since I can't seem to figure out how to quote line by line, I'll respond to this in one go.

First, we were talking about whether people in the GTA specifically would flock to see a Hamilton CPL team and abandon TFC in the process, which you've switched to discussing "the rest of the country" that doesn't have an MLS team. There go the goalposts for the first time.

As for being "obsessed" with the level of play, I'm not obsessed over it though I would recommend for the CPL clubs (and any other one) that they should be - the level of play (or quality if you prefer that word) is an important point for people who want to be entertained & fork out money for that reason. The higher it is the better the chances will be of getting higher attendance. I still know more soccer fans who don't support/follow TFC than those who do because they still don't think the level of play in MLS high enough. And yes, the San Jose Earthquakes are at the same basic level of play as TFC since you ask.

As for a 30K stadium, I mention that figure because the notion was that MLSE, should be shaking in their boots about a team in the CPL that would rival TFC for popularity the way a 2nd NHL team in Toronto would for the Leafs - which in Toronto means being perceived as a major league team, which would require something a lot more than a 10K seat stadium. You appear to be talking about something different now, which means another moving of the goalposts.

I am not sure why you are quoting an article (which I was one of the first to like on this board) about KW possibly getting a team at me as though it's some sort of argument against anything I've said about TFC/Toronto/MLSE. I think the article is good news and I see that they seem to have their expectations set realistically, which is a good thing.

Lastly, why on Earth would you think I was advocating for the MLS teams to dump their B teams, particularly when I made reference to all of these clubs (CPL and MLS) developing more and more Canadian players? The goalposts have been moved out of not just the stadium but an entire time zone at this point.

The more news we hear about the CPL the more excited I get about it, but I can't help get the impression of bitterness and spitefulness coming from you towards MLSE. Good luck with that. Anyway, I'm done with this line of conversation as it's too time consuming to spend time posting on this board merely to shift goalposts back to where they were set up in the first place.

 

[Gian-Luca]

11 hours ago, matty said:

I'm talking about media markets not fanbases ok.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Although if we are talking media, I think the jury is still out in terms of what TFC would actually be losing here, since we don't know what the media coverage will be for the new league and whether it would in any way "blackout" TFC's/MLS reach with the national broadcasting and coverage that already exists.

[Ansem]

11 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

First, we were talking about whether people in the GTA specifically would flock to see a Hamilton CPL team and abandon TFC in the process, which you've switched to discussing "the rest of the country" that doesn't have an MLS team. There go the goalposts for the first time.

I did answer you, some will abandon TFC to follow Hamilton. As for the rest of the country, it's a valid point that a city like Winnipeg, "Whitecaps territory" according to them, are more likely to jump in the WFC bandwagon at the expense of the Whitecaps

13 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

As for being "obsessed" with the level of play, I'm not obsessed over it though I would recommend for the CPL clubs (and any other one) that they should be - the level of play (or quality if you prefer that word) is an important point for people who want to be entertained & fork out money for that reason. The higher it is the better the chances will be of getting higher attendance. I still know more soccer fans who don't support/follow TFC than those who do because they still don't think the level of play in MLS high enough. And yes, the San Jose Earthquakes are at the same basic level of play as TFC since you ask.

Obsessed was a bad word, didn't want to obsess you. I agree it's important. All I'm saying is that I think CPL, without being above MLS, can still compete against them and that's truly what matters. It can only get better as the domestic pool improves. I don't think much of MLS level of play either but for me it's about supporting our own and witness the improvement. MLS has been unsatisfying to me in that regard, that's just me.

17 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

As for a 30K stadium, I mention that figure because the notion was that MLSE, should be shaking in their boots about a team in the CPL that would rival TFC for popularity the way a 2nd NHL team in Toronto would for the Leafs - which in Toronto means being perceived as a major league team, which would require something a lot more than a 10K seat stadium. You appear to be talking about something different now, which means another moving of the goalposts.

MLSE aren't "afraid" for their survival nor worried, however, a CPL team means less sales and viewership for TFC, not necessarily less attendance. I'm sure lots of fans will continue to support TFC or follow both clubs, however, it's also true that some fans will jump off the TFC party and embrace CPL. That's what's irritating to Manning and TFC. They'd rather TFC II be in CPL so they keep the monopoly on the market. CPL fans in Toronto, means that they will be buying merchandise that should have been TFC merchandise, some will choose to watch one league over the other and that will be at TFC's expense. I'd like to point out that the viewership is very low as it is, hence them not being pleased.

23 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Lastly, why on Earth would you think I was advocating for the MLS teams to dump their B teams, particularly when I made reference to all of these clubs (CPL and MLS) developing more and more Canadian players?

I misunderstood you

24 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

but I can't help get the impression of bitterness and spitefulness coming from you towards MLSE.

Not at all, but they aren't my team.

[Kent]

2 hours ago, Gordon said:

Sandor tweeting Valencia and Cosmos is the game.

Here's an article he wrote about it.

https://the11.ca/valencia-friendly-offers-a-major-canpl-test-for-regina/

[MtlMario]

13 hours ago, 1996 said:

Remember the CFL teams only have to fill what 8 or 9 home dates , a soccer team and league to be taken seriously and to properly develop players need to be playing at least a 30 game schedule meaning at least 15 home games, 15 home games not that easy to fill as compared to the laughable 8 home games CFL teams only have to fill. So using the CFL as an example of a Canadian league that works is not such a great comparison when it comes to soccer. If the MLS has not penetrated non Canadian markets it has much more to do with those markets not having their own MLS teams but above all a lot to do with soccer not being popular enough as a spectator sport in Canada not much to do with the MLS, because if it was just a MLS thing then soccer viewing ratings for say the EPL would be through the roof in Edmonton, Calgary and Mossejaw, but EPL ratings are nothing special in those places either.

You also have to take into consideration that the ticket prices will be much lower in the CPL compared to  home games in the CFL so families could go see a few CPL games(2 or 3) compared to 1 football game. Just curious, is it a LAUGHABLE 8 games for NFL also or just CFL?

[Diamondium]

5 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

You also have to take into consideration that the ticket prices will be much lower in the CPL compared to  home games in the CFL so families could go see a few CPL games(2 or 3) compared to 1 football game. Just curious, is it a LAUGHABLE 8 games for NFL also or just CFL?

I'll add onto that in that I don't fully see why having 8 games to fill vs 15 is an advantage. You don't measure the success of a league by how many are attending each game, you measure the success by the annual profits. You fill a stadium less with 15 games, but if you are getting, say, 75% of that attendance at each game, you are still coming out ahead. There is something to be said for the extra costs of more games, however if we are making the budgets based on annual costs of players already being set and comparable, then the main extra per-game variable costs is relatively low.

Having more games is an advantage to profitability, not a disadvantage. CFL/NFL fill the stadiums more than other sports in their respective countries, not only because they can due to their schedule, but because they have to due to their schedule. (Well NFL has to less nowadays that it's TV-oriented but that's a different story)

[Macksam]

3 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Because TFC despite being the most popular team in Canada, having international superstars, having every game broadcast on nationally on TSN/CTV, having a massive marketing machine, have a payroll north of 20 Million dollars and being one of the top teams have a fair amount of empty seats most nights in their own 30,000 seat stadium. 

Still no reason not to. Different location and reasonable ticket prices can take care of that. Also, that $20 million salary needs an asterisk next to it thst says 3 players take up 80% of it. If it was a true $20 million dollar team salary, the team would be sold out each night. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Judging by Paul Beirne's quotes on the subject K/W is probably going to be allowed in:

http://m.therecord.com/sports-story/7294235-fledgling-canadian-premier-league-could-come-to-waterloo-region

"The key ingredient is an active and engaged community and I think K-W represents everything that we're looking for in a strong and vibrant CPL club," said Beirne, who has worked for Major League Soccer's Toronto FC and Brighton and Hove Albion of the English Premier League.

"The fans in K-W are going to enjoy hating the fans in Hamilton because that's part of football. However, there is also this overarching sense of purpose that we're creating a movement about the Canadian game."

Which is encouraging in terms of CPL finding a niche for itself rather than duplicating what is already in place and having a bit of an identity crisis over its status relative to MLS. This bit is scary though:

"The CPL is going to need to have some concrete affirmation that the community wants to rally around it and that there will be some sort of stadium development moving forward," said MacLean, noting that the team would need about 5,000 fans per game to survive.

 

[Rheo]

I agree, CPL will be a niche and find it's role in communities and the soccer landscape.  It's good that the recognize this unlike some dreamers on here lol.  The 5k number doesn't worry me since that's pretty much what's been floated around from the beginning and I don't see that as a unreasonable number.

[IceCreamMan]

4 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

If that means that FC Edmonton, the Ottawa Fury, VWFC 2 and TFC 2 are not expected to be involved and if as now appears likely the Calgary Stampeders, Edmonton Oilers and Saskatchewan Roughriders owners have decided to steer clear (why would they join later than the Blue Bombers and the Ticats?), then I suspect that the CPL probably becomes significantly different from what was being rumoured in terms of scale of operations

 

What evidence is there that the Calgary Stampeders, Edmonton Oilers and Saskatchewan Roughriders owners are all out beyond the fact they haven't been announced yet? There are individual issues with individual bids that are resolved at different speeds. I don't think there has been any indication to suggest they are out at this stage. 

[matty]

4 hours ago, Gordon said:

Sandor tweeting Valencia and Cosmos is the game.

Prep game? Also wtf

[Rheo]

11 minutes ago, IceCreamMan said:

What evidence is there that the Calgary Stampeders, Edmonton Oilers and Saskatchewan Roughriders owners are all out beyond the fact they haven't been announced yet? There are individual issues with individual bids that are resolved at different speeds. I don't think there has been any indication to suggest they are out at this stage. 

No proof, fits the skeptic narriative.  He could be right, he could be wrong.  We won't know until all the owners are named lol

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

11 minutes ago, IceCreamMan said:

....There are individual issues with individual bids that are resolved at different speeds....

Makes sense in a Halifax context as they need to sort out a viable stadium but what would the issue be for a CFL owner planning to use their stadium for soccer as well as handegg given this announcement didn't exactly suddenly come out of the blue? In an Edmonton context there is solid evidence beyond that line of reasoning because the Oilers owners recently confirmed to Steven Sandor of the11.ca website that they weren't interested.

https://the11.ca/oilers-canpl-not-on-our-radar/

So, today, I asked the Oilers Entertainment Group point-blank about their involvement with the Canadian Premier League. And the statement:

“We are not in discussions and it’s not on our radar.”

[IceCreamMan]

5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Makes sense in a Halifax context as they need to sort out a viable stadium but what would the issue be for a CFL owner planning to use their stadium for soccer as well as handegg given this announcement didn't exactly suddenly come out of the blue? In an Edmonton context there is solid evidence beyond that line of reasoning because the Oilers owners recently confirmed to Steven Sandor of the11.ca website that they weren't interested.

https://the11.ca/oilers-canpl-not-on-our-radar/

So, today, I asked the Oilers Entertainment Group point-blank about their involvement with the Canadian Premier League. And the statement:

“We are not in discussions and it’s not on our radar.”

Fair point on Edmonton. 

 

For Calgary in particular there really is no soccer specific stadium. McMahon is an outdated football stadium in need of replacement. It is also owned by the University of Calgary not the Flames so there would be details to iron out there as well. There was talk of building a field house as part of the CalgaryNext project which would have been perfect but that appears to have hit some significant road blocks. They could easily be waiting until they have more of an idea on that. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Somebody in Calgary is alleged to have been close to buying the Whitecaps USL team over the last year or so and a poster on here claimed to have heard contact with the CSA being mentioned where the new league is concerned at a Foothills meeting, so I wouldn't discount a Calgary team. Think Calgary Foothills are prime suspects for being one of the 10 expressions of interest that are "being evaluated".

[Kent]

43 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Judging by Paul Beirne's quotes on the subject K/W is probably going to be allowed in:

http://m.therecord.com/sports-story/7294235-fledgling-canadian-premier-league-could-come-to-waterloo-region

"The key ingredient is an active and engaged community and I think K-W represents everything that we're looking for in a strong and vibrant CPL club," said Beirne, who has worked for Major League Soccer's Toronto FC and Brighton and Hove Albion of the English Premier League.

"The fans in K-W are going to enjoy hating the fans in Hamilton because that's part of football. However, there is also this overarching sense of purpose that we're creating a movement about the Canadian game."

Which is encouraging in terms of CPL finding a niche for itself rather than duplicating what is already in place and having a bit of an identity crisis over its status relative to MLS. This bit is scary though:

"The CPL is going to need to have some concrete affirmation that the community wants to rally around it and that there will be some sort of stadium development moving forward," said MacLean, noting that the team would need about 5,000 fans per game to survive.

 

I am absolutely shocked you didn't bring up this part.

"MacLean has "serious investment" lined up, but admitted that additional financial backing would be needed to bring a team to the area."

You love to talk about how they obviously are trying to line up investors still! Here you have actual confirmation they are looking for investors!

[Macksam]

BBTB's previous arguments were how operations would be scaled down significantly if the league included MLS USL Pro teams and didn't have many CFL based owners. Now that MLS USL Pro are definitely a no go, the argument has changed to things being scaled down by not having many CFL based owners and no USL Pro teams?

[Gordon]

20 minutes ago, matty said:

Prep game? Also wtf

Confirmed now http://www.620ckrm.com/2017/05/08/international-soccer-coming-to-mosaic-stadium/

Cosmos of course, do barnstorm. Highly likely that game is a trial ballon to gauge support in Regina...years of nothing and now this, just days after CPL Soccer announcement.

[Kent]

10 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Makes sense in a Halifax context as they need to sort out a viable stadium but what would the issue be for a CFL owner planning to use their stadium for soccer as well as handegg given this announcement didn't exactly suddenly come out of the blue? In an Edmonton context there is solid evidence beyond that line of reasoning because the Oilers owners recently confirmed to Steven Sandor of the11.ca website that they weren't interested.

https://the11.ca/oilers-canpl-not-on-our-radar/

So, today, I asked the Oilers Entertainment Group point-blank about their involvement with the Canadian Premier League. And the statement:

“We are not in discussions and it’s not on our radar.”

It could be that some potential ownership groups are interested, but aren't yet fully committed. For example, the exhibition match in Regina. That could be used to test the waters before jumping in. Ownership groups could be doing market research as well before they commit. Perhaps there will be more outreach to the public in other cities like we have seen in Hamilton, now that the league is officially announced. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the other CFL teams are out at this point.

[Rheo]

8 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Makes sense in a Halifax context as they need to sort out a viable stadium but what would the issue be for a CFL owner planning to use their stadium for soccer as well as handegg given this announcement didn't exactly suddenly come out of the blue? In an Edmonton context there is solid evidence beyond that line of reasoning because the Oilers owners recently confirmed to Steven Sandor of the11.ca website that they weren't interested.

https://the11.ca/oilers-canpl-not-on-our-radar/

So, today, I asked the Oilers Entertainment Group point-blank about their involvement with the Canadian Premier League. And the statement:

“We are not in discussions and it’s not on our radar.”

In effort to say everything that was said at the time, when this quote came out Rollins said on his pod that were ways around this and for the statement to be true.  Like that Katz alone and not the Oilers group could be behind any bid.  It's been awhile so I can't remember the exact context and it's semantics for sure but he did put that out there.

[matty]

So what's with the Flames and Roughriders now skipping? Any actually evidence or just a conspiracy based on shit all?

Also anyone thinking the CPL will be buddy buddy with NASL given the domestic status and now Regina.

Also how the shit are we back on PDL teams?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

1 minute ago, matty said:

So what's with the Flames and Roughriders now skipping?... Also how the shit are we back on PDL teams?

They weren't part of the announcement, which was particularly odd in Calgary's case as they were the ones that have been most strongly rumoured to be involved in CFL owner terms. Does that really need to be spelled out? As for the PDL team bit:

http://m.therecord.com/sports-story/7294235-fledgling-canadian-premier-league-could-come-to-waterloo-region

Paul Beirne is saying very positive things about K/W United's bid to get into CPL.