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ted

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grasshopper1917 Rising Star

grasshopper1917

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Regina and Calgary. They already have the stadiums all figured out and potential CFL owners.

Halifax (pending stadium approval) are next

Perhaps Ottawa Fury but FC Edmonton is doubtful...perhaps the Eskimos?

I think there is a real possibility the NASL may fold. The geography of the league is absurd, attendance is mediocre and really what is the purpose of competing with the USL? Edmonton may have no choice but to switch leagues for 2018 or 2019....

 

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IceCreamMan Apprentice

IceCreamMan

Posted
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9 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Regina and Calgary. They already have the stadiums all figured out and potential CFL owners.

Halifax (pending stadium approval) are next

Perhaps Ottawa Fury but FC Edmonton is doubtful...perhaps the Eskimos?

Are we assuming McMahon for Calgary? Its really not setup very well for soccer but I guess it is the only option at the moment

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Pat Carrasco Newbie

Pat Carrasco

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15 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

http://linkis.com/3downnation.com/2017/LWTcf

Steve Milton posting to a CFL news site

Got to say, kind of neat that we are getting to the point where there is too much coming out to really keep up with well.

Steve Milton just said that: “We got 10 expressions (including Hamilton and Winnipeg) of interest from across the country. And there are definitely more in the pipeline. We’ve got more demand than supply. We will continue the process of assessing potential members: looking at ownership, and facilities and markets." In other words, 2 have been officially approved while 8 are being reviewed presently at the moment. That's not all. There more teams to come, probably bringing the league to 12 or even as high as 16. This is what this is telling me by reading these comments.

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Macksam Mentor

Macksam

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1 hour ago, matty said:

I dunno Winnipeg is world famous 

 

Everybody Wants Some referenced Winnipeg and Manitoba in general as well. It is the center of North America, hence the strong ties to Free Masonry. Winnipeg Freemasons...I think we found the club's name. How about Winnipeg Templers?

6 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Where was that? I missed it

I have to dig it up but it was mentioned when people were skeptical of WFC's intentions.

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Pat Carrasco Newbie

Pat Carrasco

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Paul Beirne has just confirmed to the Hamilton Spectator: “We got 10 expressions (including Hamilton and Winnipeg) of interest from across the country. And there are definitely more in the pipeline. We’ve got more demand than supply. We will continue the process of assessing potential members: looking at ownership, and facilities and markets." In other words, 2 have been officially approved while 8 are being reviewed presently at the moment. That's not all. There more teams to come, probably bringing the league to 12 or even as high as 16. This is what Beirne's statements are telling me by reading these comments.

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GuillermoDelQuarto Newbie

GuillermoDelQuarto

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2 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

I wouldn't hold my breath on Edmonton - I know we have this dream that everyone outside of MLS will join the CPL and be one big happy family, but I don't think the real world is going to shape up that way...

Even Ottawa (if they do join) probably won't join during the short 2018 season, just so they can play the full year in USL.

I have to agree.  Unfortunately I feel that Edmonton may be the last domino to fall

Although I have half a mind to start a South Side Supporters group because they play nearly 45 minutes drive from my house.  Would be nice if there was something closer.

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Gian-Luca Grand Master

Gian-Luca

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4 hours ago, matty said:

TFC felt that the Ontario market was theirs, Ottawa never had the reach to get anywhere near their level and was arguably a bigger issue for Montreal. 

I pretty much agree with you on everything here but the Toronto situation is direct because the market is Toronto-Hamilton. A team in Hamilton is a team literally in TFC's primary media market and it's backed by beloved Hamilton establishment. TFC will not be able to counter the CPL team in Hamilton and that's 20-30% of their market as it's likely to take Halton and Niagara. This is everything TFC have fought against and are fighting against.

The first paragraph didn't really answer my question but never mind - I think the 20-30% estimate of the market being lost to a Hamilton team in an overestimate, both from a population-base perspective (I doubt they are getting that many of their fans from Hamilton, Niagara and Burlington - it wouldn't surprise me if more fans come from north of the city than south) and from a level of play perspective

This isn't a like-for-like situation of putting an NHL team in Hamilton where that might take away 20% of the market for the Leafs (although the Leafs would thrive just fine without it, but that's another story) - the CPL, unless it turns out to be a far more lucrative venture from the get go, is, for the forseable future, not going to be able to compete with the playing level and star appeal that MLS brings (and not just those who play on the Canadian teams - the likes of Pirlo and Schweinsteiger do help to sell a few tickets). Not everyone is going to flock to see their local team and turn their back on TFC, especially if they live in Oakville and Milton (as Hamilton still wouldn't be a local team to them). I could see MLSE being a little more wary/rueful if Hamilton was getting an MLS team. I could also see Hamilton doing really well with attendance - without it hurting TFC attendance to any significant degree - because I could see lots of people who don't do the 90 minute drive to see TFC going to see Hamilton play.

 

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Complete Homer Newbie

Complete Homer

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1 minute ago, lazlo_80 said:

that article is big. Sounds like KW have been planning something behind the scenes for the last year and a half. I had no idea they were that far along.

They've seemed pretty willing to volunteer that for a while, I just don't think much mainstream media had been paying attention yet. That's changing it seems

https://grandriverunion.com/2017/03/24/gru-meets-with-gill-heidary-and-jeff-hughes-from-kw-united/

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Gian-Luca Grand Master

Gian-Luca

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4 hours ago, Ansem said:

 

Who cares about the Tier 1 not being on par with MLS? Why do people need to overthink this so much? If Liga MX is the true North American D1, MLS should have been a D3 when they started in 1997, yet they got D1. Same for CPL.

You're forgetting the "making money" part and being competitive of the highest quality. You can't make money if your product is poor. CPL wants to be able to do all of the above and make money. Can't make money if the quality is poor and sub par.

Make no mistake about it, whenever CPL enters the big 3, it's a competition. Hamilton being CPL already makes it TFC competitors. How many people will just go to a Hamilton game instead of driving all the way to Exhibition or take the GO train for a TFC game?

Just like MLS, it was far from being a walk in the park for them, and I think, it will be a smoother ride for CPL

I wasn't the person who brought up "Tier 1", but I would imagine there will be many paying customers will care about whether the product will be on a level with MLS. There were not any Liga MX teams playing in the US before the MLS started so that analogy fails.

I haven't forgotten that the owners would like to make money, but given Paul Beirne's quote about what the primary purpose of the league is, I'm more inclined to believe they are expecting to lose money for quite some time first, and if and when they do make a profit it still won't necessarily be because the quality of the product is at the same level as the MLS - but that's so far down the road, who really can say at this point.

As for the CPL entering the "big 3", I'm curious as to where a Toronto CPL that would compete at the same level as TFC will play. The Rogers Centre? A brand new 30K seat stadium? If there's another sugar daddy owner out there will to invest bajillions to compete with MLSE at the MLS level then that might be one thing but absent of any news on that, I'm not going to hold my breath for that at teh moment. Pro soccer in Canada isn't at the same level as pro hockey. The best situation we can realistically hope for IMO is an 8 to 10 team league (depending on where Edmonton and Ottawa want to play) as well as three MLS teams all developing players and thriving at their respective levels - which I don't think it is going to be the 20-27K size crowds MLS gets. I'll be thrilled with a 5K attendance average across the CPL that  Bobby McMahon was suggesting could be the case.

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Ansem Veteran

Ansem

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10 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

wasn't the person who brought up "Tier 1", but I would imagine there will be many paying customers will care about whether the product will be on a level with MLS.

Some will, you obviously do. I don't. I'd rather buy Canadian than American, that's just me. As for the rest of the country where MLS a failed to penetrate those Canadian markets, they will go to CPL way ahead of MLS

12 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I haven't forgotten that the owners would like to make money, but given Paul Beirne's quote about what the primary purpose of the league is, I'm more inclined to believe they are expecting to lose money for quite some time first, and if and when they do make a profit it still won't necessarily be because the quality of the product is at the same level as the MLS - but that's so far down the road, who really can say at this point.

The quota being adjusted based on the current Canadian pool and adjusted over time depending on how that pool widens is a huge commitment to quality. Also, Montreal Impact has yet to turn a profit since joining MLS. But no quality means less clients.

15 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

As for the CPL entering the "big 3", I'm curious as to where a Toronto CPL that would compete at the same level as TFC will play.

Why are you so obsess with the same level of play? Is San Jose Earthquakes on the same level as TFC? What matters is that they can compete and I don't think a CPL team gets blown out 8-0. Being competitive is what matters.

17 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

The Rogers Centre? A brand new 30K seat stadium? If there's another sugar daddy owner out there will to invest bajillions to compete with MLSE at the MLS level then that might be one thing but absent of any news on that, I'm not going to hold my breath for that at teh moment.

Rogers? It's for the Jays

Brand new 30k? Can we start with a 10k somewhere in Toronto, ideally near a subway line?

Let me give you a reality check, Toronto is big enough for more than 1 club, stop buying the Maple Leafs pills who keep spreading that there should be only 1 club for Toronto.

19 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Pro soccer in Canada isn't at the same level as pro hockey.

There's more kids registered as soccer players in Canada than hockey...give it time

20 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

The best situation we can realistically hope for IMO is an 8 to 10 team league (depending on where Edmonton and Ottawa want to play)

Fledgling Canadian Premier League could come to Waterloo Region
 
 
Beirne sees CPL teams coast to coast and, eventually, in different divisions.
It's ok to be ambitious
 
22 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

as well as three MLS teams all developing players and thriving at their respective levels

HELL NO if you mean dumping their B Teams

23 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

which I don't think it is going to be the 20-27K size crowds MLS gets. I'll be thrilled with a 5K attendance average across the CPL that  Bobby McMahon was suggesting could be the case.

Not at first. Why does it have to be all or nothing? What about "progression"? Give it time. If CFL over time was able to have big attendances and great viewership (superior to MLS mind you), why can't CPL I=within 10 years?

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1996 Newbie

1996

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10 hours ago, matty said:

While I don't think there's a sinister MLS/TSN conspiracy, I do think the MLS teams are kicking themselves over the botching of how they went about establishing themselves in Canada. Yes they set-up academy partnerships but that only can go so far.

I think the Impact will hold on to Quebec outright for a while still, due to the apparent struggles for the CPL to find owners there and how hard it is to build a brand there, but TFC and the Caps messed up

How did they mess up ?

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grasshopper1917 Rising Star

grasshopper1917

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8 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Let me give you a reality check, Toronto is big enough for more than 1 club, stop buying the Maple Leafs pills who keep spreading that there should be only 1 club for Toronto.

 

No question Toronto is big enough for several clubs of different sizes in many sports. However Toronto has a history of only supporting limited top clubs. Several attempts have been made at minor league hockey and JR hockey in Toronto and almost all have been poorly supported and failed. 

However with that being said MLS tickets and concessions have been moving right on up over the years. In order to have a chance a Toronto club would need a right sized stadium for the league  (maybe 7000-8000) in a good area. Also reasonable ticket and beer prices. On top of that some modern cutting edge marketing. It possible to do but would be against the odds.

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1996 Newbie

1996

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Remember the CFL teams only have to fill what 8 or 9 home dates , a soccer team and league to be taken seriously and to properly develop players need to be playing at least a 30 game schedule meaning at least 15 home games, 15 home games not that easy to fill as compared to the laughable 8 home games CFL teams only have to fill. So using the CFL as an example of a Canadian league that works is not such a great comparison when it comes to soccer. If the MLS has not penetrated non Canadian markets it has much more to do with those markets not having their own MLS teams but above all a lot to do with soccer not being popular enough as a spectator sport in Canada not much to do with the MLS, because if it was just a MLS thing then soccer viewing ratings for say the EPL would be through the roof in Edmonton, Calgary and Mossejaw, but EPL ratings are nothing special in those places either.

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Ansem Veteran

Ansem

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49 minutes ago, Ansem said:
Fledgling Canadian Premier League could come to Waterloo Region
 
 
 
 
 
Pro/Rel anyone?

Does that mean

A)CPL will decide which bid is Tier 1 or Tier 2?

B)Will they reach 16 teams and then create CPL 2?

C)Take all the bids that meat their requirement until they can make 2 tier with Pro/Rel?

Exciting times indeed

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Kent Grand Master

Kent

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3 hours ago, Macksam said:

 

They did mention that they were partnering with another party to spearhead this whole thing. Considering we had that tweet on the weekend, the logical choice would appear to be Truth North but who knows.

I am not caught up on the thread so apologies if I am repeating, but I have seen this mentioned earlier as well. I took that statement to likely mean them talking about the Hamilton group. They sound like they are talking about the group trying to get the league going, not a group trying to get Winnipeg going.

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