Canadian Premier League

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, Macksam said:

Oh yeah. Did anybody else catch that subtle moment during the podcast with Bill Manning where during all the posturing on how "MLSE would be the best bet on running a successful Toronto CPL team" he mentioned how he thinks the league will do well in other markets like Winnipeg and Hamilton, and when he mentioned the latter there was a pause followed by laugher from the hosts that implied Manning probably put on a funny, non-genuine face where he most likely rolled his eyes. MLSE are on the record about being opposed to a GTA CPL team but believe me, off the record, they are equally against Hamilton CPL as well.

Worst than that, on record they support it. Off record, they see the whole country as their personal farm, something that Manning was heavily hinting at in regards to CPL.

***My avatar is Robert Borden, Canada was truly born during WWI, if anyone was wondering. Saturday, we witness the renaissance of Canadian Soccer, and no, I won't have Montagliani as my avatar

[Macksam]

7 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Worst than that, on record they support it. Off record, they see the whole country as their personal farm, something that Manning was heavily hinting at in regards to CPL.

Which is why this league is going to be a breath of fresh air from your typical Canadian (American to but they aren't as bad) sports ownership bull shit where a small handful of teams want to stifle professional development in cities up to a thousand miles away because it will take away from their hypothetical jersey sales and TV viewership. 

[matty]

Off this current topic.

Looking at the twitter account for the CPL. Tesho Akindele is still the only MLS guy following it.....someone in this league should go after him for 2018. He'd be a real statement signing: young, established on the national team, very capable MLS player, has won a fair bit of silverware including solo honours. He's a good Canadian signing that wouldn't break the bank. If the CPL wants to be a serious league someone like him would help it reach that level quicker. He's also handsome well which is a marketing plus. Likely wouldn't happen for 2018 but it would be cool if it did.

[Macksam]

1 minute ago, matty said:

Off this current topic.

Looking at the twitter account for the CPL. Tesho Akindele is still the only MLS guy following it.....someone in this league should go after him for 2018. He'd be a real statement signing: young, established on the national team, very capable MLS player, has won a fair bit of silverware including solo honours. He's a good Canadian signing that wouldn't break the bank. If the CPL wants to be a serious league someone like him would help it reach that level quicker. He's also handsome well which is a marketing plus. Likely wouldn't happen for 2018 but it would be cool if it did.

It's alright if he follows it. I imagine any Canuck on a Canadian-based MLS team following the league would be considered career suicide...maybe.

[matty]

5 minutes ago, Macksam said:

It's alright if he follows it. I imagine any Canuck on a Canadian-based MLS team following the league would be considered career suicide...maybe.

Well Jackson Farmer is following it too so I guess we'll find out.

[Wingback6]

15 hours ago, dsqpr said:

I may as well expand on this a bit. In the first case we don't really know who will own the team but it seems unlikely the Bombers will own 100%. However, even if they do, their focus is the success of the Bombers. If they can take money out of the CPL team for the benefit of the Bombers (e.g. by increasing the rent) you had better believe that is what they will do.

You need look no further than this message board to see that the two sports go together like oil and water. And they will be competing with each other, at least to some degree, for the summer entertainment dollar. If the CPL team is a big success I have no doubt whatsoever that the Bombers will do whatever they can to syphon cash from the CPL team to the Bombers. This is why I am concerned that the Bombers seem to have a fairly significant stake. I think it will hinder the success of the Winnipeg CPL team.

(Ignore this unless you are REALLY interested in this Peg-centric post)

You are offiside my friend.

1. If the Bombers are not the owners, then why would Wade Miller himself be the one to go to Whistler, and why would Winnipeg Football Club be the ones joining the CSA? Which seems to be a prerequisite of sorts? Keeping in mind that the CFL draft was the same weekend, and training camp starts in about three weeks. You think he might be a little busy atm. Yet, there he is. Standing right where an owner should be standing. I mean... just read the release on the Bombers website. It clearly states 'our interest in founding a club here in Manitoba'

2. Why would they charge rent to a team they own?

3. Oil and water. Are you serious? They are descended from the same game, literally. That is why they are both called football.  And as I have mentioned on this forum before, I floated the idea of pro soccer tenancy at IG waaay back in 2011 on bluebombersforum.com, before ground had even been broken. The response was overwhelmingly positive. And this was from CFL fans. There was even a dedicated WC 2014 thread on the same forum.

5. The bombers turn a profit every year. That is how they were able to get the loan for the stadium to begin with. I agree they see there is money to be made, but I don't think that suggests ill intent. It will cost money to get this going, why would they bother with the risk if they wanted it to fail? The point of a cash cow... is that it is full of cash, it doesn't get that way if you starve it, or stay that way if you over bleed it.

6. WFC's involvement gives instant credibility. In a sense, this isn't even a new franchise, just an expansion of the activities of one whose brand already has good standing in the community. People who might not be inclined to come to a soccer game WHATSOEVER will come, just because 'it's the Bombers'. This is literally the best possible scenario. I would have been more worried if the ownership group was some random third party, then I might share some of your concerns. But there has been no evidence to suggest this is the case, whatsoever.

Go Blue.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, matty said:

It's been said by a few media sources that one of the issues the MLS teams had with the CPL was that they viewed certain markets as theirs. Whitecaps had BC to Manitoba and TFC had Ontario, with both Hamilton and Winnipeg being approved and the league being labelled Canadian tier 1 (important to note NASL has always been tier 2 and American) it's safe to say both have either lost control over their territories (as is the case with the Whitecaps in Winnipeg) or now have to deal with competition taking up a large chunk of their market (TFC). These issues emerged partly because of a lack of outreach on their parts..

"TFC had Ontario" for what though? MLS/top level in North America player rights presumably, because obviously the existence of Ottawa's team meant that they didn't have the entire market for all levels of soccer exclusively their own. They also didn't have to share their TSN broadcast deal for MLS games with Ottawa and presumably that also won't change if the CPL can get their games televised.

The CSA may or may not be designating the CPL "Tier 1" for Canada when the league happens (although what will they be designating the MLS teams as being in then - "Tier 1 Plus"?) but whether or not that de facto means the league will be actually the top pyramid of professional soccer in Canada is another matter. In terms of attendance, media coverage, player salary and level of play for the forseeable future the Canadian MLS teams will all be higher than the CPL. There is nothing wrong with that either. The purpose of the league is to help develop Canadian players, coaches, referees etc and, presumably to get professional soccer in cities that don't already have a professional team. All great, laudable goals which don't require competing with the Canadian MLS clubs on their own turf.

Right now it looks very much like a six team league may start for a soft/August launch next year, which is great, but I still feel people on this board are getting ahead of themselves. It will take a very long time for an all-Canadian league to rival the MLS teams for popularity if that should ever happen and the immediate concern should be to make the venture workable, not to make the Canadian MLS teams rue an alleged missed opportunity.

[Ansem]

28 minutes ago, Wingback6 said:

(Ignore this unless you are REALLY interested in this Peg-centric post)

You are offiside my friend.

1. If the Bombers are not the owners, then why would Wade Miller himself be the one to go to Whistler, and why would Winnipeg Football Club be the ones joining the CSA? Which seems to be a prerequisite of sorts? Keeping in mind that the CFL draft was the same weekend, and training camp starts in about three weeks. You think he might be a little busy atm. Yet, there he is. Standing right where an owner should be standing. I mean... just read the release on the Bombers website. It clearly states 'our interest in founding a club here in Manitoba'

2. Why would they charge rent to a team they own?

3. Oil and water. Are you serious? They are descended from the same game, literally. That is why they are both called football.  And as I have mentioned on this forum before, I floated the idea of pro soccer tenancy at IG waaay back in 2011 on bluebombersforum.com, before ground had even been broken. The response was overwhelmingly positive. And this was from CFL fans. There was even a dedicated WC 2014 thread on the same forum.

5. The bombers turn a profit every year. That is how they were able to get the loan for the stadium to begin with. I agree they see there is money to be made, but I don't think that suggests ill intent. It will cost money to get this going, why would they bother with the risk if they wanted it to fail? The point of a cash cow... is that it is full of cash, it doesn't get that way if you starve it, or stay that way if you over bleed it.

6. WFC's involvement gives instant credibility. In a sense, this isn't even a new franchise, just an expansion of the activities of one whose brand already has good standing in the community. People who might not be inclined to come to a soccer game WHATSOEVER will come, just because 'it's the Bombers'. This is literally the best possible scenario. I would have been more worried if the ownership group was some random third party, then I might share some of your concerns. But there has been no evidence to suggest this is the case, whatsoever.

Go Blue.

Good post but I share the theory that I don't think they are the only shareholder of the team. They may be the majority partner in the team but I doubt they hold 100% of it. Quite frankly, it's healthier that way. I don't think it's unfair to assume that the Bombers will still focus on CFL, but having another partner in this with you allows you to keep that focus while the other partner focuses on soccer.

If that makes sense?

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

29 minutes ago, Wingback6 said:

(Ignore this unless you are REALLY interested in this Peg-centric post)

You are offiside my friend.

1. If the Bombers are not the owners, then why would Wade Miller himself be the one to go to Whistler, and why would Winnipeg Football Club be the ones joining the CSA? Which seems to be a prerequisite of sorts? Keeping in mind that the CFL draft was the same weekend, and training camp starts in about three weeks. You think he might be a little busy atm. Yet, there he is. Standing right where an owner should be standing. I mean... just read the release on the Bombers website. It clearly states 'our interest in founding a club here in Manitoba'

2. Why would they charge rent to a team they own?

3. Oil and water. Are you serious? They are descended from the same game, literally. That is why they are both called football.  And as I have mentioned on this forum before, I floated the idea of pro soccer tenancy at IG waaay back in 2011 on bluebombersforum.com, before ground had even been broken. The response was overwhelmingly positive. And this was from CFL fans. There was even a dedicated WC 2014 thread on the same forum.

5. The bombers turn a profit every year. That is how they were able to get the loan for the stadium to begin with. I agree they see there is money to be made, but I don't think that suggests ill intent. It will cost money to get this going, why would they bother with the risk if they wanted it to fail? The point of a cash cow... is that it is full of cash, it doesn't get that way if you starve it, or stay that way if you over bleed it.

6. WFC's involvement gives instant credibility. In a sense, this isn't even a new franchise, just an expansion of the activities of one whose brand already has good standing in the community. People who might not be inclined to come to a soccer game WHATSOEVER will come, just because 'it's the Bombers'. This is literally the best possible scenario. I would have been more worried if the ownership group was some random third party, then I might share some of your concerns. But there has been no evidence to suggest this is the case, whatsoever.

Go Blue.

yea man.  bang on. 

I view it for ownership groups kinda like MLSE has done.  They're simply diversifying their portfolio.

If the football team is struggling for a little while and the soccer team is making money(or likely vice versa in the beginning), one can be used to keep the other afloat.

that and there isn't a massive amount of overlap between football and soccer fans in my experience.  less so than most other sports I would say.  It makes sense to spread out your eggs into different baskets, if you can.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

With regards to TFC "having" ontario.

I think TFC's marketing department/front office should give themselves more credit.  It's like Real Madrid/Barcelona - if you're still the top team most of the time(as they probably will be) you'll still be having people from elsewhere in the country tuning in to watch your bigger games(playoffs, CONCACAF CL).

Honestly, making the product more authentic overall(as CPL will do) should help convert more of the giant amount of fans that don't even watch North American soccer.  Plus having live events that you might play in other cities(V-cup in places like the maritimes and prairies) should expand your viewership/credibility somewhat anyways.

It's kinda gross how antagonistic they've been.  But I still watch them because right now they're the best this country has got.  Plus giovinco, u know.

[matty]

1 minute ago, Gian-Luca said:

"TFC had Ontario" for what though? MLS/top level in North America player rights presumably, because obviously the existence of Ottawa's team meant that they didn't have the entire market for all levels of soccer exclusively their own. They also didn't have to share their TSN broadcast deal for MLS games with Ottawa and presumably that also won't change if the CPL can get their games televised.

TFC felt that the Ontario market was theirs, Ottawa never had the reach to get anywhere near their level and was arguably a bigger issue for Montreal. 

7 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

The CSA may or may not be designating the CPL "Tier 1" for Canada when the league happens (although what will they be designating the MLS teams as being in then - "Tier 1 Plus"?) but whether or not that de facto means the league will be actually the top pyramid of professional soccer in Canada is another matter. In terms of attendance, media coverage, player salary and level of play for the forseeable future the Canadian MLS teams will all be higher than the CPL. There is nothing wrong with that either. The purpose of the league is to help develop Canadian players, coaches, referees etc and, presumably to get professional soccer in cities that don't already have a professional team. All great, laudable goals which don't require competing with the Canadian MLS clubs on their own turf.

Right now it looks very much like a six team league may start for a soft/August launch next year, which is great, but I still feel people on this board are getting ahead of themselves. It will take a very long time for an all-Canadian league to rival the MLS teams for popularity if that should ever happen and the immediate concern should be to make the venture workable, not to make the Canadian MLS teams rue an alleged missed opportunity.

I pretty much agree with you on everything here but the Toronto situation is direct because the market is Toronto-Hamilton. A team in Hamilton is a team literally in TFC's primary media market and it's backed by beloved Hamilton establishment. TFC will not be able to counter the CPL team in Hamilton and that's 20-30% of their market as it's likely to take Halton and Niagara. This is everything TFC have fought against and are fighting against.

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

They also didn't have to share their TSN broadcast deal for MLS games with Ottawa and presumably that also won't change if the CPL can get their games televised.

That's spread across the league.

7 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

The CSA may or may not be designating the CPL "Tier 1" for Canada when the league happens (although what will they be designating the MLS teams as being in then - "Tier 1 Plus"?) but whether or not that de facto means the league will be actually the top pyramid of professional soccer in Canada is another matter. In terms of attendance, media coverage, player salary and level of play for the forseeable future the Canadian MLS teams will all be higher than the CPL. There is nothing wrong with that either.

Who cares about the Tier 1 not being on par with MLS? Why do people need to overthink this so much? If Liga MX is the true North American D1, MLS should have been a D3 when they started in 1997, yet they got D1. Same for CPL.

9 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

The purpose of the league is to help develop Canadian players, coaches, referees etc and, presumably to get professional soccer in cities that don't already have a professional team. All great, laudable goals which don't require competing with the Canadian MLS clubs on their own turf.

You're forgetting the "making money" part and being competitive of the highest quality. You can't make money if your product is poor. CPL wants to be able to do all of the above and make money. Can't make money if the quality is poor and sub par.

Make no mistake about it, whenever CPL enters the big 3, it's a competition. Hamilton being CPL already makes it TFC competitors. How many people will just go to a Hamilton game instead of driving all the way to Exhibition or take the GO train for a TFC game?

13 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Right now it looks very much like a six team league may start for a soft/August launch next year, which is great, but I still feel people on this board are getting ahead of themselves. It will take a very long time for an all-Canadian league to rival the MLS teams for popularity if that should ever happen and the immediate concern should be to make the venture workable, not to make the Canadian MLS teams rue an alleged missed opportunity.

Just like MLS, it was far from being a walk in the park for them, and I think, it will be a smoother ride for CPL

[rob.notenboom]

2 hours ago, masster said:

The AGM was actually closed to media. I know some Vancouver media people that contacted the CSA about attending, but were advised that the AGM was for members only.

Interesting. Didn't know that, but I'm not surprised. Part of my point though about being away from prying eyes holds whether or not media were invited to Whistler. Media can hang out in the hotel lobby in Vancouver or Toronto easily enough. Whistler, is nicely isolated. I suppose someone could have driven up from Van, but it's unlikely when they have other local fish to fry. 

[Rheo]

3 hours ago, masster said:

The AGM was actually closed to media. I know some Vancouver media people that contacted the CSA about attending, but were advised that the AGM was for members only.

For all the skepticism of the long, long wait of the rollout of the league I like how it was launched.  A nice tease with a bit of news.  Enough for people to take notice of but also a lot left to speculate on.  Add in the website launch, twitter, ect and I've been impressed so far.  That includes them not having the media there.  They're controlling the message, which to be fair is what they've always done.  Only now we actually have something legit to chew on.

[Pat Carrasco]

If I heard this correctly, the CSA has already stated that at least 10 cities have already expressed interest in joining the CPL. Decisions on which cities will be part of the final league lineup are expected to be made over the summer. Now, both Hamilton and Winnipeg's bids have been officially approved. There are no doubts that Ottawa, Edmonton and Halifax are expected to get the green light real soon. Now that leaves us with 5 mystery cities. I'm wondering if anyone here has any clue which cities may these be? For the record, I will be disqualifying Moncton NB for now given that the head spoke person for the group has admitted that he does not have investors onboard, unless the Irwing or the McCain families get onboard this venture. This league does require investors with deep pockets, otherwise you can't join the clubhouse.

[Ansem]

Funny how ESPN reports it faster than TSN/RDS...hmmm

http://www.espnfc.us/canada/story/3122014/plans-for-new-canadian-premier-league-approved

[Rheo]

Except TSN did report it faster, just not in a way you deem satisfactory with a headline  

But I know the conspiracy narriative is a lot more fun lol

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Except TSN did report it faster, just not in a way you deem satisfactory with a headline  

But I know the conspiracy narriative is a lot more fun lol

I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but there's intent in reporting the way TSN/RDS are doing it. That's a fact

[Rheo]

Just now, Ansem said:

I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but there's intent in reporting the way TSN/RDS are doing it. That's a fact

You can't call it a fact when it's an assumption based on a percerption to fit your narriative.

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Rheo said:

You can't call it a fact when it's an assumption based on a percerption to fit your narriative.

It's a fact that on both sites, the headline Canadian Premier League is nowhere to be found while everyone else is...That's a fact.

[lazlo_80]

2 hours ago, Rheo said:

Not much from Rossi, general talk about importance of CPL

-Teases unknown owners as impressive but no names

-Puts over the Ticats group as a driving force and for putting together a business model that's attractive to owners who aren't doing it for the love of the game.

-Mentioned getting a lot of messages from players excited at the prospect of playing at home

-Stressed the importance of trying to do something for women as well in the near future.

Rest is mostly League One related.

 

just to add on to this.

Dino did a great job discussing some of the behind the scenes stuff that we weren't privy to if you want to geek out.

also, reading between the lines of what he said, it sounds like League One has a bunch of players who joined it this year with an eye to playing in CanPL next year. this might explain why Quillan signed up and guys like Johnny Grant are back in the league again. Mentioned CPL scouts will be watching the league closely this year.

[Kent]

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up yet, but on Saturday I signed up to be a fan on canpl.ca. I am assuming the ID numbers they give out on the website started from 1, and increment with each new fan. I'd just like to say based on my ID number, it's impressive that on the first day they surpassed 900 billion fans signed up (and it's also impressive their servers handled all that traffic).

[Rheo]

Just now, Ansem said:

It's a fact that on both sites, the headline Canadian Premier League is nowhere to be found while everyone else is...That's a fact.

Yes it's a fact that they aren't covering like you feel (and I agree for the record) that it should be covered.  It could be that the headline editor thinks the naming of the new president is more important.  By your logic it's a "fact" that TSN/RDS are burying the World Cup bid because there's no headline for it being ratified.  Your assigning nefarious intent with no proof at all.

Sorry I'm not going through pages of the TSN conspiracy talk on here to get your exact position but it's been said that TSN is trying to stiffle the league due to pressure from MLS.  I was more responding to that conspiracy thought line in general in the second paragraph.

[matty]

6 minutes ago, Ansem said:

It's a fact that on both sites, the headline Canadian Premier League is nowhere to be found while everyone else is...That's a fact.

Is the Toronto Star involved? They reported on Reed's appointment but not on the CPL

[Rheo]

4 minutes ago, matty said:

Is the Toronto Star involved? They reported on Reed's appointment but not on the CPL

The truth is out there Scully...

Seriously that was my next step but need a break to actually do some work before finding articles that didn't mention it lol