Canadian Premier League

[Blackdude]

6 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The Blue Jays have 2 back to back Championships and had deep playoffs runs. They actually try to be visible across Canada while playing their exhibition games in Montreal. If BC place was on MLB standards, the Jays would go there as well. The Jays earned it.

The Raptors "We the North" campaign is brilliant marketing. They play their exhibition games across Canada in almost all the provinces. They earned it and NHL Clubs do the same to some extend.

What has those 3 clubs done? Nothing near that level of involvement in other Canadian markets. They behaved like we belong to them and "a to do" project. With CPL, this laziness and arrogance backfired big time. They got what they deserve, they mainly stayed in their own markets and that's what they will end up having.Too late now to go after the rest of the country.

Hard to compare both because it's easy to play a NHL or NBA exhibition in Canada in late September/early October and MLB exhibitions are at Olympic Stadium where there is a baseball configuration. I think playing a soccer friendly in February before the season in Canada is just hard to do and teams would play at bad indoor complex where it defeats the purpose. 

[Ansem]

I think it can work in Surrey. CPL needs a Metro Vancouver team and a battle of BC between Victoria would draw. More so BC vs Alberta.

As for Montreal, you need Quebec City in CPL first and foremost. Investors will line up to capitalize on a potential Montreal-Quebec City rivalry, which the Impact will have to stay out of, drooling and crying not being able to get a piece of it.

We all know Toronto can support a CPL team at the same time as TFC. CPL Montreal being around would just solidify those 2 team's fan base.

My point is that setting up teams in markets that could have storied rivalries with potential big 3 CPL teams could be the best course of action and it seems how the league intends on building itself up. Offering to fans something that they never seen before is a smart strategy. I think you'd get positive response in a Surrey vs Victoria rivalries and your occasional V Cup matchup of Vancouver vs Surrey (whatever they want to call themselves...Metro Vancouver would be smart)

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

...They behaved like we belong to them and "a to do" project. With CPL, this laziness and arrogance backfired big time...

So far CPL has two teams with a third in the pipeline. It very much remains to be seen whether they can get to the point of having eight stable franchises that will hang around for the long term without including MLS B teams in a USL sort of way. The history of Canadian soccer is littered with misguided attempts to launch leagues and franchises by people with dollar signs before their eyes that got cold feet once the finances involved didn't measure up to their initial expectations. I would wait at least five or ten years before making statements like that. 

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

So far CPL has two teams with a third in the pipeline. It very much remains to be seen whether they can get to the point of having eight stable franchises that will hang around for the long term without including MLS B teams in a USL sort of way. The history of Canadian soccer is littered with misguided attempts to launch leagues and franchises by people with dollar signs before their eyes that got cold feet once the finances involved didn't measure up to their initial expectations. I would wait at least five or ten years before making statements like that. 

We've been over this. so.. yeah

[Ansem]

11 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

I think playing a soccer friendly in February before the season in Canada is just hard to do and teams would play at bad indoor complex where it defeats the purpose. 

Nothing stopping them to play friendlies in other stadiums in Canada or V Cup games in other stadiums. I get it, you want to play all your games at home but that's a choice. They picked to focus on their markets and that's fine, but don't turn around and claim Canada as your backyard.

[matty]

29 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

So far CPL has two teams with a third in the pipeline.

Publicly. Odds are there are at least two more in a similar situation to Halifax (similar meaning something is pending before the get approval).

29 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It very much remains to be seen whether they can get to the point of having eight stable franchises that will hang around for the long term without including MLS B teams in a USL sort of way.

True only time and whatever ownership exists across the board will tell with that.

29 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The history of Canadian soccer is littered with misguided attempts to launch leagues and franchises by people with dollar signs before their eyes that got cold feet once the finances involved didn't measure up to their initial expectations.

True but how many had a near billionaire and at least 1 cfl team involved? It's safe to say this attempt is fairly different from the past.

29 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

 I would wait at least five or ten years before making statements like that. 

Fair enough

[Ansem]

With a Detroit MLS team looking like a matter of time, should CPL target Windsor (329,144 as of 2016, Canada's 16th metro area)?

• Personally I think it should beat an MLS Detroit team to it as they will most likely try add Windsor as their fan base. A CPL Windsor being there first would at least get the team a solid fan base even if it's a given that people will still go to Detroit.

Also, Buffalo is unlikely to get MLS expansion team. With the St. Catharines - Niagara (Niagara Falls, Welland) having the 12th biggest metro population in Canada (406,074 as of 2016), and Buffalo being 30 minutes away from Niagara Falls with a metro population of over 1.1M people, should CPL target that area the way Detroit will target Windsor? too risky? Not worth it?

Thoughts?

[matty]

8 minutes ago, Ansem said:

With a Detroit MLS team looking like a matter of time, should CPL target Windsor?

Personally I think it should beat an MLS Detroit team to it as they will most likely try add Windsor as their fan base. A CPL Windsor being there first would at least get the team a solid fan base even if it's a given that people will still go to Detroit.

Thoughts?

True the issue is that it's not a top ten media market and is secondary media market not a primary

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, matty said:

True the issue is that it's not a top ten media market and is secondary media market not a primary

Yes you're right. They wouldn't be a top priority, just worried that putting a CPL team there later when an MLS Detroit has had time to settle and grow into Windsor would make CPL too risky or not viable.

I added to my post regarding Niagara region targeting Buffalo who won't get MLS. What's your thoughts?

[Rheo]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

With a Detroit MLS team looking like a matter of time, should CPL target Windsor?

Personally I think it should beat an MLS Detroit team to it as they will most likely try add Windsor as their fan base. A CPL Windsor being there first would at least get the team a solid fan base even if it's a given that people will still go to Detroit.

Thoughts?

As the local Windsorite on here I should give my two cents.

Detroit in MLS has issues to start.  Lack of stadium, with the two billionaire potential owners wanting public subsidizing for a stadium (it's a long, complicated story) and a hard core base (DCFC/Northern Guard) who while aren't anti-MLS per say are anti-public financing and love their team.  I know there's been rumors of DCFC to NASL recently but haven't kept up on it closely.

I'd love a team here but there isn't a place to play presently.  The Stars (now Windsor TFC) have been down here for as long as I can remember and I've been here 20+ years so there is history.  I've sadly only been to one game and that was to DCFC play a friendly last year and I sat with the Northern Guard for the game with my friends.  I am planning on hitting a couple of games at least this year though as I want to check out Sigma and TFCIII.

I did have a couple of tweets discussion with their twitter account on Saturday.  They tweeted about the league and wanting a team here.  I said we needed a stadium first and they replied "The place will come. We need to connect investors. This is a Spitfires (and tagged their twitter) type budget."

I'm not sure of numbers and levels.  It could work.  Spits attendance is fairly steady (I did research)

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=10926

Top numbers are for Memorial Cup teams and new arena. I need to get back to work but these are my initial thoughts lol.

[Rheo]

14 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Yes you're right. They wouldn't be a top priority, just worried that putting a CPL team there later when an MLS Detroit has had time to settle and grow into Windsor would make CPL too risky or not viable.

I added to my post regarding Niagara region targeting Buffalo who won't get MLS. What's your thoughts?

Honestly DCFC has a bit of a following in Windsor (me included)  They drew over 4k for their home opener friendly on the weekend.  They really have something special going on there.  Really need to get my passport so I can start going to games there.

Out of the box thinking I'd love for them to join the CPL knowing how much support they have and how great they are from hanging out with them once.  But I figure that wouldn't play out well on here lol

[masster]

3 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

I think there's something that hasn't been mentioned here that is an important point regarding media attention. The AGM was in Whistler with virtually no media present (actually it might be literally true that there were no journalists present). Any mainstream media who wanted to report on this were left with only the CSA press release and whatever interviews they could arrange. That's not a lot to go on. 

The AGM was actually closed to media. I know some Vancouver media people that contacted the CSA about attending, but were advised that the AGM was for members only.

[ted]

7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The CUSL had the Canadian USL teams on board at one point, but they eventually decided they were better off where they already were.

The USL teams participated in the committee stage (as did I, in case you forgot) and, as I said, never committed to the league.

The CanPL has done much better.

 

3 hours ago, Futballer said:

Many here whom were involved in the cusl were skeptical of this present Project surpassing the efforts made in year 2000, Many here whom has seen the Business plan claim it needed work, Ted some times you got to give the small guy some credit, 

WTF are you trying to say?!? What business plan are you talking about? I'd love to get a look at it but all I've seen is the rival Italian plan.

I give the CanPL group (whoever they may be) mad credit. This is a great accomplishment and while I still have questions I think this group has played it smart and built something that has a good chance of working.

[Gordon]

14 hours ago, matty said:

Oh I called out BBTB's shit as baseless all the time, and even explained to them why everyone called them a conspiracy theorist, but at least his didn't have 100% legit evidence in plain view proving them wrong and when the evidence did arrive it adapted.

BBTB and others tried with their theories. This one doesn't at all try

Ok fair enough. I don't see the difference in the two given the "in passing" nature of TSN's coverage. Speculating on nefarious intent seems de rigeur on this thread, but if you've been consistently calling it out then fair play.

[Gian-Luca]

2 hours ago, matty said:

While I don't think there's a sinister MLS/TSN conspiracy, I do think the MLS teams are kicking themselves over the botching of how they went about establishing themselves in Canada. Yes they set-up academy partnerships but that only can go so far.

I think the Impact will hold on to Quebec outright for a while still, due to the apparent struggles for the CPL to find owners there and how hard it is to build a brand there, but TFC and the Caps messed up

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here. I see no reason why TFC or the Caps would think they have botched things in this regard at this stage - unless they were already "kicking themselves" when the likes of Ottawa & Edmonton came into the NASL a few years ago.

[matty]

10 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here. I see no reason why TFC or the Caps would think they have botched things in this regard at this stage - unless they were already "kicking themselves" when the likes of Ottawa & Edmonton came into the NASL a few years ago.

It's been said by a few media sources that one of the issues the MLS teams had with the CPL was that they viewed certain markets as theirs. Whitecaps had BC to Manitoba and TFC had Ontario, with both Hamilton and Winnipeg being approved and the league being labelled Canadian tier 1 (important to note NASL has always been tier 2 and American) it's safe to say both have either lost control over their territories (as is the case with the Whitecaps in Winnipeg) or now have to deal with competition taking up a large chunk of their market (TFC). These issues emerged partly because of a lack of outreach on their parts.

Unless they can manage to get their reserve teams in (which is unlikely) this is very bad news for them. Whitecaps won't be able to compete with the Bluebombers in Manitoba and TFC have possibly lost 20-30% of their main media market.

[masster]

5 minutes ago, matty said:

It's been said by a few media sources that one of the issues the MLS teams had with the CPL was that they viewed certain markets as theirs. Whitecaps had BC to Manitoba and TFC had Ontario, with both Hamilton and Winnipeg being approved and the league being labelled Canadian tier 1 (important to note NASL has always been tier 2 and American) it's safe to say both have either lost control over their territories (as is the case with the Whitecaps in Winnipeg) or now have to deal with competition taking up a large chunk of their market (TFC). These issues emerged partly because of a lack of outreach on their parts.

Whoever says that is wrong. The Whitecaps don't view Saskatchewan and Manitoba as theirs...they are granted that territory by MLS with regards to homegrown players. Huge difference.

I'm sure the Whitecaps view Vancouver and all of the lower mainland as theirs, just as Manning and TFC view Toronto as theirs.

[masster]

CPL hopes to turn around the fortunes of Canadian soccer:
http://globalnews.ca/news/3433612/commentary-cpl-hopes-to-turn-around-the-fortunes-of-canadian-soccer/

Winnipeg soccer fans cheer on news of new pro team:
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-pro-soccer-team-1.4103688

[Rheo]

Soccer Today pod has Dino Rossi from League One talking about the CPL.  Just started listening to it so just an FYI

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

With a Detroit MLS team looking like a matter of time, should CPL target Windsor (329,144 as of 2016, Canada's 16th metro area)?

• Personally I think it should beat an MLS Detroit team to it as they will most likely try add Windsor as their fan base. A CPL Windsor being there first would at least get the team a solid fan base even if it's a given that people will still go to Detroit.

Also, Buffalo is unlikely to get MLS expansion team. With the St. Catharines - Niagara (Niagara Falls, Welland) having the 12th biggest metro population in Canada (406,074 as of 2016), and Buffalo being 30 minutes away from Niagara Falls with a metro population of over 1.1M people, should CPL target that area the way Detroit will target Windsor? too risky? Not worth it?

Thoughts?

 

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Yes you're right. They wouldn't be a top priority, just worried that putting a CPL team there later when an MLS Detroit has had time to settle and grow into Windsor would make CPL too risky or not viable.

MLS doesn't have the drawing power to reach significantly outside its market like the big four sports leagues, especially outside its own border. Even if MLS comes to Detroit, success depends on when the CPL tries to enter Windsor. If it's 10 to 15 years down the road when the CPL stabilizes and the price of admission is a 18000 to 20000 SSS, whatever casual fans MLS Detroit gains in Windsor would easily jump ship to the CPL team.

[matty]

6 minutes ago, masster said:

Whoever says that is wrong. The Whitecaps don't view Saskatchewan and Manitoba as theirs...they are granted that territory by MLS with regards to homegrown players. Huge difference.

I'm sure the Whitecaps view Vancouver and all of the lower mainland as theirs, just as Manning and TFC view Toronto as theirs.

They view their home cities as their main markets but don't think for a second that's their sole focus for branding and media.

Just to add, TFC's market is Toronto-Hamilton so you can see why they'd be pissed by a top level team entering Hamilton.

[masster]

1 minute ago, matty said:

They view their home cities as their main markets but don't think for a second that's their sole focus for branding and media.

Of course. I mean the USL era Whitecaps held a friendly against Beckham and the Galaxy in Edmonton. This isn't anything new. Every team wants to appeal to as many people as possible, doesn't mean they claim ownership of other provinces.

[matty]

11 minutes ago, masster said:

Of course. I mean the USL era Whitecaps held a friendly against Beckham and the Galaxy in Edmonton. This isn't anything new. Every team wants to appeal to as many people as possible, doesn't mean they claim ownership of other provinces.

They didn't claim ownership but they felt it was defacto theirs (even with FCE in place) and we've seen TFC at least try and make Ontario fully theirs for a few years now.

[Rheo]

Not much from Rossi, general talk about importance of CPL

-Teases unknown owners as impressive but no names

-Puts over the Ticats group as a driving force and for putting together a business model that's attractive to owners who aren't doing it for the love of the game.

-Mentioned getting a lot of messages from players excited at the prospect of playing at home

-Stressed the importance of trying to do something for women as well in the near future.

Rest is mostly League One related.

 

[Macksam]

28 minutes ago, matty said:

Just to add, TFC's market is Toronto-Hamilton so you can see why they'd be pissed by a top level team entering Hamilton.

No doubt about that. Did anybody else catch that subtle moment during the podcast with Bill Manning where during all the posturing on how "MLSE would be the best bet on running a successful Toronto CPL team" he mentioned how he thinks the league will do well in other markets like Winnipeg and Hamilton, and when he mentioned the latter there was a pause followed by laugher from the hosts that implied Manning probably put on a funny, non-genuine face where he most likely rolled his eyes. MLSE are on the record about being opposed to a GTA CPL team and believe me, off the record, they are equally against Hamilton CPL as well.