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7 hours ago, lazlo_80 said:

However, Saskatchewan and Rider nation are such a distinct culture and arguably one of THE sporting institutions in this country that legitimately have an organic history and unique story. I think more than perhaps any other team in the league it will be really interesting to see how tightly they maintain that link. I expect other cities (Hamilton for example) will likely keep the same color scheme as their CFL counterparts, but with Sasketchewan I could see it being that step further. Would Riders FC be a good idea or a bridge too far?

will be interesting to see none the less.

Yes agreed on all points. 

 

I'm not sure if Riders FC would be too far. You absolutely need to engage the soccer community but then you also need to engage the casual sports fan. Would Rider branding appeal to both? Would non Rider branding appeal to both? I honestly don't know. I'm glad I'm not in marketing :)

 

Green colours, however, are pretty common in SK beyond the Riders. Provincial teams, university teams are all green. So maybe you can have a partially Rider brand and that would be best. 

 

I'm still dying for confirmation. 

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7 hours ago, SuperCanuck said:

Do you think he was talking about scouting local clubs for talent or giving group rates to local clubs to get more bums in seats and get them hooked, if possible?

 

It had to do something with when TFC was setting up their academy in the Winter era and how a Canadian (Torontonian) was not involved and there wasn't consultation with local clubs which left a large population untouched by the new academy

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3 minutes ago, pint said:

The thing in the GTA that makes the most sense in my mind would be for sigma to join but they would likely need a major investor to help them set up a stadium because BMO won't be used.

They are rumoured to be involved with the Hamilton franchise which suits me just fine!

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Just because it was mentioned as an example of something to avoid, here's a piece on the National Basketball League of Canada from the New York Times. It paints a pretty bleak picture of the league's status, though it does so largely through anecdotes and horror stories. The fact that the league has run for five years with marginal success is certainly concerning, though. On the flip side, you could also argue that if they're still operating in this state, we should be able to at least limp along with the CPL.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/sports/basketball/its-like-the-nba-minus-the-money-fame-and-fans.html?_r=0

I honestly do think that, if the CPL is getting buy-in from NHL and CFL owners and potential backing from TSN, the CPL will do just fine. These are people who understand marketing, merchandising, sports management and how to get butts in seats. They wouldn't be getting involved unless they thought it was worth their time, energy and money to do so. And this is all coming at a time when more and more people are showing interest in the game, and it takes advantage of a growing base of both fans and players in Canada. As long as the roll-out is done professionally - cities selected, team names and colours chosen, facilities identified, broadcasting rights secured, etc. - right from the get-go, we'll be fine.

As a sidenote, every time I search for "Canadian Premier League," I get a mix of Waking the Red posts and links to a cricket league.

http://cplt20.ca/

I've read the Spectator article, but couldn't seem to find a copy of the actual presentation that was shown before council in Hamilton. Can anyone confirm that it's "Canadian Premier League" and not "Canadian Premier Soccer League"? I'd be mortified if the roll-out turned into a lawsuit for copyright infringement.

Finally, regarding the name, if it is indeed CPL, I think it's a solid choice. It differentiates it from MLS/NASL, has Canadian right there in the title, and makes for a very simple (and nearly identical) translation into French (Ligue première canadienne). Succinct, to the point, and you instantly know what the league is about.

Edited by m-g-williams
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25 minutes ago, pint said:

The thing in the GTA that makes the most sense in my mind would be for sigma to join but they would likely need a major investor to help them set up a stadium because BMO won't be used.

I think a Toronto franchise could work at Lamport Stadium. It would be a perfect venue with just under 10k, and with little renovations being done to the stadium. 

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Based on what we see with what are considered lesser sports in Vancouver, getting 3000 out to a Vancouver CPL game would be a huge success. I am thinking about the kind of following you get for the Canadians baseball, for lacrosse (sometimes close to a thousand), the good days for VWCII. Others know more about the Giants. 

One little advantage a second team would have in Vancouver is that BC Place with only the lower tier open is close to sell-out, so it is hard to have optimum seat selection, there is a perception that Whitecaps are at a crowd limit they prefer, to keep the ambience more intense, deliberately not opening the upper bowl for a couple thousand more. Maybe if we draw a big side for the Concacaf champions or get deeper into playoffs this would change but that is maybe 3-4 games a year. WCII got good crowds in the summer when the Caps were either on a long road spell, forced away for the Women's WC, or just not playing home that week. Trying to properly counter-schedule (CPL plays home when MLS is away) could also help, you'd draw those fans who did not want to wait two weeks in the summer, had the kids eager and you decide to pay less to keep them entertained. 

I personally think Swangard would be a fine option for a Vancouver CPL team and I'd go back to its Southside if they were to set up ricketty little stand for us.

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1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Based on what we see with what are considered lesser sports in Vancouver, getting 3000 out to a Vancouver CPL game would be a huge success. I am thinking about the kind of following you get for the Canadians baseball, for lacrosse (sometimes close to a thousand), the good days for VWCII. Others know more about the Giants. 

One little advantage a second team would have in Vancouver is that BC Place with only the lower tier open is close to sell-out, so it is hard to have optimum seat selection, there is a perception that Whitecaps are at a crowd limit they prefer, to keep the ambience more intense, deliberately not opening the upper bowl for a couple thousand more. Maybe if we draw a big side for the Concacaf champions or get deeper into playoffs this would change but that is maybe 3-4 games a year. WCII got good crowds in the summer when the Caps were either on a long road spell, forced away for the Women's WC, or just not playing home that week. Trying to properly counter-schedule (CPL plays home when MLS is away) could also help, you'd draw those fans who did not want to wait two weeks in the summer, had the kids eager and you decide to pay less to keep them entertained. 

I personally think Swangard would be a fine option for a Vancouver CPL team and I'd go back to its Southside if they were to set up ricketty little stand for us.

I think the biggest issue with Tor, Van, and Mtl will be revenue sharing.  All three of these clubs would be looking at small venues that they would rent, and would be in an uphill battle for attention.  Compare this to the other markets where they would be the biggest soccer in town, and play in larger stadiums that they control all of the stadium revenue.  I know larger stadiums are not always good, but at least it would be possible for a Hamilton to draw 12K for an important match, or even one of those dreaded summer friendlies (which could make some good money).  Without revenue sharing, a team from Van playing at Swangard or a Tor team playing at York or Varsity or even Lamport will be a money pit to start and even if you can fill Swangard, you are going to be making a lot less money than the other teams with not a lot more ability to grow.

Jason

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On 13/02/2016 at 11:20 PM, mtlsab said:

The CSA can force them to join the CPL I think

I'm to understand the only thing the CSA could do is to state a memorandum on the subject and if they don't follow, they can desanction the team. At which point the team can no longer qualify for the v cup. If they continue to be allowed to play in MLS by MLS and the USSF, there isn't a thing the CSA can do about it, apart from complain to the greater body of FIFA who will likely do didly. If they however opted, it would probably be a giant lawsuit between the CSA, MLS, teams, USSF and a PR nightmare.

So the CSA isn't going to force the issue. It's not only a bad PR move in their largest markets to do so, but makes them and the new league they are trying to make seem bush, espcially if you run the VCup without the MLS teams. It will be status quo with a larger VCup until either the CPL folds or MLS teams suddenly think they can make more money playing in the CPL then MLS.

Edited by -Hammer-
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On 2016-02-16 at 5:30 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

 like we are discussing how to dress Barbie when Ken asks her out.

This is all pure speculation so here is mine, just abstract bullshit out of the blue in the spirit of the thread, here it goes:

 1) ROTFLMAO

2) Welcome to "Duane Rollins Delusional Canadian League That May Be Real Or A Hallucination" thread.

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10 hours ago, gator said:

It would be nice if someone comes forward and puts up some money in Toronto for a team, maybe call them the Blizzard!

Would be cool to see someone try to market it specifically to Mississauga.  I'm not sure if Saugans consider themselves as seperate from Toronto or not, but it would have the makings of a nice little three way rivalry with Toronto Hamilton and Miss if it worked out.  

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10 hours ago, m-g-williams said:

Just because it was mentioned as an example of something to avoid, here's a piece on the National Basketball League of Canada from the New York Times. It paints a pretty bleak picture of the league's status, though it does so largely through anecdotes and horror stories. The fact that the league has run for five years with marginal success is certainly concerning, though. On the flip side, you could also argue that if they're still operating in this state, we should be able to at least limp along with the CPL.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/14/sports/basketball/its-like-the-nba-minus-the-money-fame-and-fans.html?_r=0

I honestly do think that, if the CPL is getting buy-in from NHL and CFL owners and potential backing from TSN, the CPL will do just fine. These are people who understand marketing, merchandising, sports management and how to get butts in seats. They wouldn't be getting involved unless they thought it was worth their time, energy and money to do so. And this is all coming at a time when more and more people are showing interest in the game, and it takes advantage of a growing base of both fans and players in Canada. As long as the roll-out is done professionally - cities selected, team names and colours chosen, facilities identified, broadcasting rights secured, etc. - right from the get-go, we'll be fine.

As a sidenote, every time I search for "Canadian Premier League," I get a mix of Waking the Red posts and links to a cricket league.

http://cplt20.ca/

I've read the Spectator article, but couldn't seem to find a copy of the actual presentation that was shown before council in Hamilton. Can anyone confirm that it's "Canadian Premier League" and not "Canadian Premier Soccer League"? I'd be mortified if the roll-out turned into a lawsuit for copyright infringement.

Finally, regarding the name, if it is indeed CPL, I think it's a solid choice. It differentiates it from MLS/NASL, has Canadian right there in the title, and makes for a very simple (and nearly identical) translation into French (Ligue première canadienne). Succinct, to the point, and you instantly know what the league is about.

I disagree on concerning. Most people thought the NBL would be dead by now. It's a league with no big money behind it and yet it's still kicking, the article even shows that the teams are slowly upgrading their infrastructure and improving their general situation. 

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9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

 

I personally think Swangard would be a fine option for a Vancouver CPL team and I'd go back to its Southside if they were to set up ricketty little stand for us.

As you are located in Vancouver, you should know this is not an option for the near and perhaps long term future.  I don't know why people keep thinking Burnaby will magically change it's mind. They have been very firm on it.

I would go there in a hearbeat if WFC2 or a CPL team went there.  I spent 1987-2010 at Swangard and have amazing memories.  It just is not happening anytime soon (if ever)

I just don't see Vancouver drawing much when the Whitecaps are here.  The market is still too shallow to have enough people willing to go to a lower tier club to make it viable.  Any CPL team would have to go into somewhere between surrey and abbotsford to even have a chance at making it.   There are a lot of people out there who don't want to undertake the expense and time to attend a full MLS schedule downtown that may support a community venture.   Just my opinion.

Edited by amanfromvancouver
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9 hours ago, Coramoor said:

I disagree on concerning. Most people thought the NBL would be dead by now. It's a league with no big money behind it and yet it's still kicking, the article even shows that the teams are slowly upgrading their infrastructure and improving their general situation. 

True, and that's what I was getting at by saying that the CPL should be able to at least limp along if the NBL can still operate under these conditions. I know we all want to avoid this sort of situation entirely and operate at a higher level, though. In any case, I think the CPL will do just fine.

And on that note, apparently Montagliani has finally made something of an official statement on the CPL:

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/16/montagliani-has-a-mountain-to-climb

“We’ve had a report done. Now we’re having a specific business plan as it relates to the stake holders we’ve been talking to,” he said. “It’s not going to be based on anything we’ve ever had before."

 

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On February 15, 2016 at 6:01 PM, amanfromvancouver said:

Why does this even matter?  The goal of a Canadian league is to have more pro clubs, academies, and places for Canadians to play and develop. As long as they can build this to a break even point financially by year 5 (which is the biggest challenge), I don't think it matters that it is not the "top league " in that sense

The league quality needs to be good enough to draw 5000-8000 a game long term so they can balance the books. I don't think there should be much worry about drawing 20k and having 10 million dollar salary budgets with world class imports.

 

It matters because you're competing for those numbers with MLS teams like it or not, if you want to set a goal of 5000-8000 you are going to have to steal some support.  The typical north american fan isn't down to support a team just because it's their local club.  The average Canadian soccer fan (i.e. non-Voyageur/sunday soccer parent) will support ONE team, if they support the domestic game at all.  Averaging 5000-8000 people per game is still a ton of people for a second tier league.  For comparison sake only a few CHL teams could even dream about those numbers.  Heck, Edmonton and Ottawa would love those numbers.

Although I do think a TV deal and partnership with CFL will be huge in pushing attendance.

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3 hours ago, m-g-williams said:

And on that note, apparently Montagliani has finally made something of an official statement on the

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/16/montagliani-has-a-mountain-to-climb

“We’ve had a report done. Now we’re having a specific business plan as it relates to the stake holders we’ve been talking to,” he said. “It’s not going to be based on anything we’ve ever had before."

"Canadian Premier League will have a business plan by mid-year."

So now we wait to see if any of the stake holders accept the business plan in the second half of the year. I'd love to see that business plan.

"that will likely begin play by 2018" - So nothing in 2017 as previously rumoured and "likely" for 2018. Colour me sceptical but any bets we'll hear 2019 or 2020 by the end of the year?

Edited by TRM
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Does anyone else think that it'd be beneficial for the 3 Canadian MLS ownership groups to get on board with the new league as silent investors, with no specific stake in any single team? I say this assuming that the league will have some form of centralised ownership structure, either like MLS or with independent clubs with strong revenue sharing agreements in place.

 A thriving 10-team Canadian league would benefit the MLS teams greatly by providing a ready pool of domestic talent, which would favour them over their MLS rivals. 

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40 minutes ago, shermanator said:

This is an interesting quote from that article:

“It’s not going to be based on anything we’ve ever had before. The reality is that a league that depends on bums in seats won’t survive.”

Seems to e following the MLS business plan.  Good luck to Mont Pete finding a rich investor and convincing him to lose money the first 5-10 years of its existence.  I guess if thr CPL were to want to survive, would have to be single wntity ownership or else.  I say if thats the case, might as well as the big three MLS clubs to help out and they get to have first dibs on CPL star players.  Glad that montagliani is accepting that the CPL will become a MLS feeder league to the big three MLS sides.

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