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4 hours ago, matty said:

If the goal is to have a 4th city for group stages a smaller stadium...

Each extra venue beyond 12 involves a very large overhead for the organizers that eats into FIFA's profit margin and is unlikely to be worth the effort for a single group stage game. Looks to me like the CSA want FIFA to be the ones that tell people outside Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver that it's not going to be happening for them.

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Victor Montagliani says CPL membership is a formality at the AGM at 14:30 in this clip:

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/montagliani-north-american-world-cup-bid-important-1.721521

He was always going to want the limelight with an announcement before leaving for CONCACAF, so that's no surprise. Before people get excited there's still a long way to go after that to having a stable and viable league. The CSA approved CUSL about 15 years ago with similar rhetoric to what we are hearing now and subsequently nothing happened, because they couldn't find enough investors.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard
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1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Have seen how sky high people can get in the past only to be let down big time. Solo World Cup hosting bid to 10 games before the quarter finals is a typical CSA sort of trajectory.

If it was a 32 team world cup, there`s no doubt in my mind the CSA would have bid solo. The expanded version hurt their plan as they didn't plan for that. It will have to be next time it's CONCACAF turn, that's all.

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I found this very interesting list of strongest leagues in CONCACAF. I'd put Primera division higher than MLS but he's going with maths. It's good to see that CPL will be top 5 with nowhere else to go but up!

Today CONCACAF top leagues

http://www.brotherlygame.com/2016/7/27/12209088/2016-rankings-best-top-club-soccer-leagues-in-concacaf-mls-liga-mx

1-Liga MX, Mexico

T2-Ascenso MX, Mexico

T2-MLS, United States

4-Primera Division, Costa Rica

5-North American Soccer League, United States

2018-2019

1-Liga MX, Mexico

T2-Ascenso MX, Mexico

T2-MLS, United States

4-Primera Division, Costa Rica

5-Canadian Premier League, Canada

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2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Have seen how sky high people can get in the past only to be let down big time.

And so has every other Canadian soccer fan and executive, which is why they seem to be so careful in identifying appropriate markets, sufficient investors and adequate facilities to make this viable. BBTB, we all get that these projects have failed before - but if every indication points to the CSA and others having actually learned from those experiences, why not just have a bit of faith?

4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Solo World Cup hosting bid to 10 games before the quarter finals is a typical CSA sort of trajectory.

I suspect this isn't so much the CSA giving up as it is being practical. The US and Mexico have each shown interest in bidding, and they frankly have better developed soccer culture and infrastructure than we do currently, which would work in their favour for landing the WC. Instituting the CPL will go a long way to bridge that gap, but I don't think any of us expects the gap to be non-existent by the time WC 2026 rolls around. On the other hand, if we can cooperate with more well-established soccer nations and split the costs while still bringing some (though not enough, in my opinion) games to Canada, why not?
 

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4 minutes ago, m-g-williams said:

And so has every other Canadian soccer fan and executive, which is why they seem to be so careful in identifying appropriate markets, sufficient investors and adequate facilities to make this viable. BBTB, we all get that these projects have failed before - but if every indication points to the CSA and others having actually learned from those experiences, why not just have a bit of faith?

On the last bit because I believe in reason and rationality rather than blind faith. I'd be much more upbeat if they ditched the D1 rhethoric and accepted that MLS is the top level, allowed in rebranded MLS affiliates and had some kind of interlocking schedule planned with either NASL or USL until they put the numbers together to have a stable separate standalone entity. Do those things and it would have a very good change of success, but instead they seem to deliberately be making life much more difficult for themselves than it needs to be.

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7 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

I'd be much more upbeat if they ditched the D1 rhethoric and accepted that MLS is the top level, allowed in rebranded MLS affiliates and had some kind of interlocking schedule planned with either NASL or USL until they put the numbers together to have a stable separate standalone entity.

All you do is talk...

Now, why don't you FULLY demonstrate how your preferred scenario makes Canada not only consistently qualify for every future World Cup, but makes us actually compete with other good nations. Also, how does this make us contenders for the Gold Cup and Copa America.

You'd be more credible if you explained it to us because until you explain how we're supposed to be better than the US using your plan, you're trolling to me

Edited by Ansem
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As I said in the World Cup thread, a solo bid was never realistic both for existing infrastructure and the want of people/government to fund stadiums that would be obsolete post Cup.  If we get the Cup it's an amazing thing that will grow the game in this country and be more beneficial than anything ever.  Calling out the CPL for "folding" to the US is a foolish and ignorant.

7 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

On the last bit because I believe in reason and rationality rather than blind faith. I'd be much more upbeat if they ditched the D1 rhethoric and accepted that MLS is the top level, allowed in rebranded MLS affiliates and had some kind of interlocking schedule planned with either NASL or USL until they put the numbers together to have a stable separate standalone entity. Do those things and it would have a very good change of success, but instead they seem to deliberately be making life much more difficult for themselves than it needs to be.

CPL will be D1 in Canada, MLS is D1 in America with teams in Canada.  Anyone who doesn't accept that MLS will be of a higher level than the CPL for a long time is delusional.

As always we just disagree on the best way for this be done.

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3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

On the last bit because I believe in reason and rationality rather than blind faith. I'd be much more upbeat if they ditched the D1 rhethoric and accepted that MLS is the top level, allowed in rebranded MLS affiliates and had some kind of interlocking schedule planned with either NASL or USL until they put the numbers together to have a stable separate standalone entity. Do those things and it would have a very good change of success, but instead they seem to deliberately be making life much more difficult for themselves than it needs to be.

This is a complete straw man argument. I'm not saying you need to ignore reason or rationality in favour of faith, and neither is anyone else. Like I said, all the evidence points to people having learned from the past, so rationally it would make sense to be much more confident. Admittedly, we don't have the full picture yet, but everything that's come to light so far sends a very positive signal. For the aspects we don't yet know about, I think a bit of optimism is certainly not unreasonable.

I get that MLS is a very stable league, and I can understand a certain inclination to hitch our wagon to that horse. But the MLS affiliates/B-teams in Canada have been pretty pitiful in terms of attendance because everyone recognizes that it's not top flight (though we'll have to see what happens with the Fury). Allowing that to tarnish a new league is only going to diminish the public perception of the league and seriously hurt its chances of success. Setting yourself up to be immediately ridiculed as D2 is the real recipe for disaster.

No one wants to see Canadian soccer take another blow like with the CSL and the CUSL, and I know you just want any new league to be viable. But that doesn't mean that we have to go with a D2 league hitched to an American D1 league. If Scotland, Sweden, Norway, Australia and a hundred other places can set up their own D1 leagues, I see no reason why we can't.

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Just now, m-g-williams said:

...all the evidence points to people having learned from the past...

Don't think so. If those lessons were learned step number one would be to reach a consensus with all the stakeholders at the pro level so they all push in the same direction. There is no evidence that has happened.

...If Scotland, Sweden, Norway, Australia and a hundred other places can set up their own D1 leagues, I see no reason why we can't...

Which is where we get into nationalism rather than rationality guiding all of this. The CSA chose to allow MLS in a decade ago, because a D1 level league wasn't happening otherwise. Unless the three MLS teams can be persuaded to get involved with their first teams then regardless of what it says on paper we won't really have a D1 of our own.

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Just now, Macksam said:

So BBTB is saying the high level sports executives and owners across the country like Bob Young are operating on blind faith rather than rationality?

No they are evil people who shit on soccer in the past and now want to exploit it for financial gain but will fail, killing the sport once again in Canada until we go begging to the US who are the only people who can save us due to the incompetence of the CSA.

Pretty sure that sums it up :)

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13 hours ago, matty said:

His exaggerations have hurt him badly (16 cities interested wasn't news) and his twitter stunts, endless teasing of info make him hard to take seriously. He's basically Canadian soccer's Alex Jones and it makes his "announcements" unimportant. He also has no filter and unlike Rollins seems fine reporting gossip as gospel even if it's a single, non-official source.

I myself am glad we have a personality like Anthony Totera talking about and working in Canadian soccer. He is busy promoting a future league and working hard within a current Canadian league rather than just badmouthing parts of the Canadian soccer industry on a chat forum.

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27 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Don't think so. If those lessons were learned step number one would be to reach a consensus with all the stakeholders at the pro level so they all push in the same direction. There is no evidence that has happened.

We've heard numerous reports of deep-pocketed investors, many with relatively large, modern facilities, being involved in the launch of a national D1 soccer league. We've heard repeatedly that they are prepared to lose money in the beginning until the product on the field improves and they begin to recoup their investment. We've heard various statements from the CSA affirming their support and their work with relevant stakeholders. We've seen plenty of grassroots support from fans in cities across the country. Are there teams in other leagues that haven't jumped at the chance to join? Yes, and given that they have investments elsewhere, it makes perfect sense that they wouldn't want to take that risk until the league has proven itself. Getting everyone on the exact same page isn't reasonable at this stage, but everything that has been done points to a broad level of support.

 

27 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Which is where we get into nationalism rather than rationality guiding all of this. The CSA chose to allow MLS in a decade ago, because a D1 level league wasn't happening otherwise. Unless the three MLS teams can be persuaded to get involved with their first teams then regardless of what it says on paper we won't really have a D1 of our own.

On the first bit, I actually agree. It chose to allow MLS in because there was no viable Canadian alternative at the time, so the move made sense. MLS has had a phenomenal impact in developing the game - and young talent - in Canada, and it was/is a necessary stepping stone.

As for the second point, this is another straw man argument. The D1 designation doesn't mean that different national leagues play at the same level, which is what I think you're implying (i.e., if it's not MLS-level, it's not really D1). What it means is that the league just represents the highest level of play in that country. Yes, we would be odd having a USSF D1 league and a CSA D1 league, but if that's the reality, so be it.The KHL isn't on the same level as the NHL, but no one denies that it's the top hockey league in Russia. Everyone recognizes that MLS is below La Liga, but that doesn't mean that MLS can't be considered D1. The CPL and MLS can be equivalent in status without being equal in quality, and starting out, that's just fine.

Again, I know you want to see Canadian soccer succeed, and I truly do believe that you feel that MLS is the most stable route. But we all seem to agree that having something seen as "bush league" is not the way to go. Unfortunately, that's exactly what would happen if we had D2 designation/allowed MLS affiliates in the league.

I'm at the office, so I'm going to have to respond to any further comments later on.

Edited by m-g-williams
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Do people not realize that while MLS is stable and thriving today, it actually folded in 2001 until Lamar Hunt was able to convince owners to bring it back a few days later? The league took it's fair share of lumps in the early years.

http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/inside-mls/story/mls-folded-in-2001-and-we-had-no-idea-041116

Quote

For at least a few hours, MLS essentially ceased to exist.

"We were having a league call in November and the league folded," Hunt said. "It went out of business, they were preparing the documents and that was it."

What or who saved the league? Lamar Hunt.

The man who owned two teams at the time almost single-handedly brought MLS back from the dead in 2001. He called up the league’s owners and within 48 hours brought everyone back on board. They were committed to the league again and were no longer going to cease operations.

Edited by shermanator
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2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

On the last bit because I believe in reason and rationality rather than blind faith. I'd be much more upbeat if they ditched the D1 rhethoric and accepted that MLS is the top level, allowed in rebranded MLS affiliates and had some kind of interlocking schedule planned with either NASL or USL until they put the numbers together to have a stable separate standalone entity. Do those things and it would have a very good change of success, but instead they seem to deliberately be making life much more difficult for themselves than it needs to be.

What makes the NASL and USL such stable entities? The fact that the NASL barely survived the last off-season or the fact that the USL flips clubs as often as a fry cook flips burgers? Yep...we should hitch our wagons to the USSF...a paragon of stability. Btw the only D1 rhetoric is brought up by you and other like minded trolls...no one is expecting the CanPL to be at the same level as the MLS (in the beginning and probably for many years to come)but that does not mean it should not be designated as D1 in Canada since it will be the top LEAGUE in our country...TFC, VWFC and the Montreal Impact are Canadian TEAMS in an AMERICAN league. Which part of any of this do you not understand? 

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Hence it's doomed to fail until the MLS/NASL/USL save us...

For the record I'm not arguing that football stadiums are good but they may not be the death blow you insist they will be.  Leagues need to grow and find out what works for them.  It is entirely possible that your myopic view on how a league can be successful may be wrong.  There are many things to learn from MLS one of them being how to adapt, survive and thrive despite the critics constant hounding and bashing.

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2 hours ago, PJSweet said:

Shame on all of yous who have come on this forum and trash talk Anthony Totera. For your information, he has been so far the only podcaster in Canada who has been invited to report the CSA meeting-vote on May 6. Now that says a lot about the man.

I appreciate his passion for the game in Canada and don't really care about the validity of his "contacts" or the accuracy of his tweets but he comes off as a raving madman most of the time and now he says he is considering running for the presidency of the future CanPL...holy shit we may as well fold the league before it even starts because Totera being the face of the league would instantly diminish any initial credibility. If I was a potential investor in the CanPL I would give him a pat on the head and send him on his way again.

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2 hours ago, Ansem said:

If it was a 32 team world cup, there`s no doubt in my mind the CSA would have bid solo. The expanded version hurt their plan as they didn't plan for that. It will have to be next time it's CONCACAF turn, that's all.

This article paints a different picture.

https://the11.ca/canada-would-host-10-world-cup-games-if-joint-bid-for-2026-is-successful/

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