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this is kind of a sidebar, but with the NHL talk,

I have a slightly wild conspiracy theory.

NHL nixed olympics because it's in asia.  KHL has been expanding into Asia which is a massive untapped market.  They don't want the KHL as competition, so they are refusing to allow their players to go because they are worried about helping expose the sport over their because they wouldn't benefit and it could hurt their monopoly.

flame away

 

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4 minutes ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

this is kind of a sidebar, but with the NHL talk,

I have a slightly wild conspiracy theory.

NHL nixed olympics because it's in asia.  KHL has been expanding into Asia which is a massive untapped market.  They don't want the KHL as competition, so they are refusing to allow their players to go because they are worried about helping expose the sport over their because they wouldn't benefit and it could hurt their monopoly.

flame away

 

The Canucks and Kings are going to play two pre-season games in China.

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35 minutes ago, matty said:

You're right! The 2015 UEFA Champions' League final was shit.

There is a massive difference between a one off final and a league season. Also, the Stade de France has retractable seating.  

Have you actually been to a football match where you have you watch over a running track or was you flippant comment based on watch in final on TV?

-signed a season ticket holder at an stadium with a running track

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The problem with Centennial, Esther Shiner and Birchmount is that they are all designed primarily for a combination of athletics and Canadian football with an extra set of yellow lines added for soccer as an afterthought. They are even less suitable for pro soccer now than they were back in the original CSL era now that they don't have natural grass, but instead have marked fieldturf. As for York University Stadium, is it even wide enough to meet the regulations for a pro level game in its post PanAm format?

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7750135,-79.5059574,182m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Good luck having anything worth watching on a pitch shaped like that. The way ahead for pro soccer in North America is the SSS and people who don't learn that lesson from the past are condemned to repeat previous mistakes to paraphrase George Santayana.

Check out a recent Ottawa away game for what's possible at a D2 level of operations when our sport isn't shoehorned into a stadium built for one of the gridiron versions of football:

 

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5 hours ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

Please, no stadia where the supporters are behind a running track. It doesn't work. 

One of the best things to happen here in Hamilton was the Pan Am games pulling the track events from Tim Horton's Field resulting in the seats being built much closer to the field due to the absence of a track! Every match I watch from West Ham's new stadium I just can't get over how the atmosphere has been taken away compared to the old Upton Park!

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There were a few SSS built pre-WWII in Canada and the United States back when the NSL in the Windsor-Quebec corridor and the ASL in the Boswash corridor in the United States were quite strong, so that's not strictly true about Lamport:

Agree, it's the only viable option other than BMO Field, for anything that wants to be taken seriously as a professional level entertainment product. The problem is that its under MLSE management control, so TFC II playing there is much more likely.

 

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6 hours ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

Please, no stadia where the supporters are behind a running track. It doesn't work. 

I know it's not ideal but at the same time it's not realistic to expect perfect soccer only stadiums for every team. There are going to be issues with some stadiums I'm sure. There are going to be football lines on some fields, tracks around fields, turf, etc.  

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On 4/8/2017 at 5:51 PM, baulderdash77 said:

I read an interesting article that said there are 8 groups vying for the last 4 MLS spots (to 28 teams).  Each of these groups are willing to pay $150 million US dollars.

They will most likely expand all the way to 32

On 4/8/2017 at 5:51 PM, baulderdash77 said:

I wonder how the economics of the CanPL changes if a deal was struck to move our 3 MLS teams to CanPL in exchange for $150 million USD each plus the $25 million USD expansion money each would get from the move to 28 teams.

175 million USD is a lot of money and they would still be able to move Toronto FC, Vancouver Whitecaps and Montreal Impact teams with sponsorships etc to CanPL with monopolies in their existing markets intact.

Its a thought and certainly it would bring the Premier part of the Canadian Premier League out.  It would also unify both the US and Canadian sanctioning ladders.

From a legal point of view, CanPL would have to compensate heavily MLS for a move like that. CanPL can't force that move, especially against the 3 teams will nor can MLS force them to stay. However, the CSA holds the trump card, de-sanctioning MLS from Canada leaves the big 3 with nowhere to play and CanPL becomes their only option.

Realistically, things would have to happen in this order:

  • Post 2026 WC CanPL peaks: 16-17 teams, similar level of play, higher viewership than MLS, like CFL, similar TV contract, similar salary cap, CFL level of average attendance: In a nutshell, the economic environment of CanPL needs to make sense for those 3 teams.
  • If FIFA does indeed launch a 32 teams Club World Cup every 4 years and that CanPL secures at least 2 CCL spots, that's 3 overall spots for Canada (including V Cup). If also CONCACAF revamp the CCL to make it bigger, the big 3 would have incentive to profit from recurring CCL participation which increases their chance to make that tournament.
  • Negotiations between CanPL & CSA, MLS, 3 teams that could lead to a deal.
  • CSA de-sanctioning of MLS in Canada if there's no deal. The CSA would use the "domestic" issue as the scapegoat. Expect the CSA to make this issue a deal breaker at some point. MLS will never cave on this and they know it.
  • CanPL pays the compensation to MLS and most likely those 3 teams to change league. It's all economics. If paying over $500M in 2030 to secure 3 of the biggest North American markets can potentially means billions in return in the long term, that would be considered as an investment and don't be so sure that CanPL through their owners wouldn't pay up.
  • Those 3 teams would undeniably push the CanPL to the next level, however, this is a non-starter until the league peaks.

***Not saying it will happen, just saying how it would happen if it ever went to that

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25 minutes ago, Rheo said:

...but at the same time it's not realistic to expect perfect soccer only stadiums for every team...

It's only soccer, so sit quietly at the back of the bus while people from another sport with a long track record of trying to marginalize our sport set the agenda. No thanks, let's try to do it properly like they are doing in the United States at the moment with dedicated soccer specific stadia. It only took 58 days to build the one in Phoenix apparently so pop-ups are not that difficult to do if the investors are serious about things.

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3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It's only soccer, so sit quietly at the back of the bus while people from another sport with a long track record of trying to marginalize our sport set the agenda. No thanks, let's try to do it properly like they are doing in the United States at the moment with dedicated soccer specific stadia. It only took 58 days to build the one in Phoenix apparently so pop-ups are not that difficult to do if the investors are serious about things.

Are really comparing soccer in Canada to the civil rights movement?  You really need to get off your high horse, the lack of oxygen up there is really getting to you....

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9 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

God forbid that people on a soccer board would want soccer to take precedence and be treated as the main priority by the investors involved in a would be FIFA-sanctioned D1.

Yes it's exactly like the systematic racism to keep people down.   I apologize for being so short sighted and unable to keep things in a proper perspective like you so obviously do.

Please note that was sarcasm.  I'm done with your stupid shit.

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We should expect and receive proper soccer stadia at D1 level. MLS only started to succeed once that lesson was learned after the Columbus Crew built their SSS and that ultimately led to stadia like this:

There were plans for stadia like that in both Vancouver and Ottawa, but they got blocked because the CFL took priority where the local politicians were concerned. We shouldn't be settling for second best.

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3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The problem with Centennial, Esther Shiner and Birchmount is that they are all designed primarily for a combination of athletics and Canadian football with an extra set of yellow lines added for soccer as an afterthought. They are even less suitable for pro soccer now than they were back in the original CSL era now that they don't have natural grass, but instead have marked fieldturf. As for York University Stadium, is it even wide enough to meet the regulations for a pro level game in its post PanAm format?

I think most of us agree with this sentiment - "stadium upgrades" have been pitched (heh) for most of those locations when they've been proposed.

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6 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

We should expect and receive proper soccer stadia at D1 level. MLS only started to succeed once that lesson was learned after the Columbus Crew built their SSS and that ultimately led to stadia like this:

That was the turning point for MLS. Soccer specific stadiums that were owned by the team owners so they could control all the other revenue streams (parking, food, etc). I love the steep seating in Orlando and the right up to the field layout. No running track there.

It works so we'll see what happens if/when the DRFL is announced. Chances are they will do it on the cheap in existing locations with running tracks etc. We'll see if they survive long enough and generate enough revenue to build SSS. Soccer has been a "second class sports citizen" too long. You will get what you are willing to put up with.

Artificial ice has been around for a long time (Phil Esposito used to flog it) but all rinks for kids are real ice with refrigeration. Why? It wouldn't matter to the little kids so why not? Because the parents and those in charge of ice hockey in Canada won't settle second best at any level. That's why. Until soccer fans adopt that attitude we are stuck.

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47 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It's only soccer, so sit quietly at the back of the bus while people from another sport with a long track record of trying to marginalize our sport set the agenda. No thanks, let's try to do it properly like they are doing in the United States at the moment with dedicated soccer specific stadia. It only took 58 days to build the one in Phoenix apparently so pop-ups are not that difficult to do if the investors are serious about things.

While pop-ups are cool and everything....suggest where you would put one in the GTA?

I think thats the main challenge....finding land to either build a brand new (pop-up) stadium. And with this reality, people suggest renovating existing stadiums as a cost effective way instead of having to acquire land, and build.

5 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

I think most of us agree with this sentiment - "stadium upgrades" have been pitched (heh) for most of those locations when they've been proposed.

While massive renovations have been suggested for sites like ESS, & Birchmount...a major point that @BringBackTheBlizzard makes slight reference to is that they were designed for multi-use sports. And since thats the case, I looked into what sports outside of soccer are using these stadiums and there are quiet a few. For instance the Metro Toronto Wildcats (throwball team) have been using ESS for years. I'm no politician, but wouldn't there be some kind of kickback to making something that is supposed to be multi-purpose to soccer specific?

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9 minutes ago, TRM said:

Artificial ice has been around for a long time (Phil Esposito used to flog it) but all rinks for kids are real ice with refrigeration. Why? It wouldn't matter to the little kids so why not? Because the parents and those in charge of ice hockey in Canada won't settle second best at any level. That's why. Until soccer fans adopt that attitude we are stuck.

If this is the sentiment....then we have a LOONNNNGGGG way to go, because turf fields are popping up everywhere, and to me they are just shortening the playing span of youth players.

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7 hours ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

There is a massive difference between a one off final and a league season. Also, the Stade de France has retractable seating.  

Have you actually been to a football match where you have you watch over a running track or was you flippant comment based on watch in final on TV?

-signed a season ticket holder at an stadium with a running track

I have team was called Hertha BSC. They play at the stadium that hosted the 2015 Final

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