Ansem Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, 1996 said: Your young go fight the battle and sit in the stands with you and a few hundred people , been there done that for many years, I will instead go take my seat with the other 20 odd thousand at a TFC game I think after supporting every type of pro soccer team and league that has come around these parts I deserve to finally support a team and league that finally feels and looks big time I waited long enough. Right answer was "I'd support both" Now now, go cash your MLSE paycheck and have a nice weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I can't wait for the day this league kicks off and we can light this thread on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper1917 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, 1996 said: Your young go fight the battle and sit in the stands with you and a few hundred people , been there done that for many years, I will instead go take my seat with the other 20 odd thousand at a TFC game I think after supporting every type of pro soccer team and league that has come around these parts I deserve to finally support a team and league that finally feels and looks big time I waited long enough. Nothing wrong with that, Im in Halifax but have enjoyed TFC since Danny Dicheo. I hope the CPL is a success and we get our own club down here. Like you though I think the CPL if it is successful will have to pay its due before it is seen as 'big time'. Its not going to happen over night or even in one decade. It will depend on how serious the stake holders are in making a top flight league. Which will mean soccer specific stadiums - a bunch of teams in massive CFL stadiums will not make for a top flight league,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 CPL season ticket holders TFC AND CPL playoffs tickets That will be my new reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1996 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Good for you if I was 20 years younger I may have too, but I'm not so time for you young guys to step up then. Like I said I paid my dues when it comes to putting my hard earn money to supporting pro soccer here in Toronto and Canada , TFC and the MLS is as good as it gets for my local live soccer experience . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 16 minutes ago, 1996 said: Good for you if I was 20 years younger I may have too, but I'm not so time for you young guys to step up then. Like I said I paid my dues when it comes to putting my hard earn money to supporting pro soccer here in Toronto and Canada , TFC and the MLS is as good as it gets for my local live soccer experience . It's ok. My generation will take if from here. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 36 minutes ago, 1996 said: Good for you if I was 20 years younger I may have too, but I'm not so time for you young guys to step up then. Like I said I paid my dues when it comes to putting my hard earn money to supporting pro soccer here in Toronto and Canada , TFC and the MLS is as good as it gets for my local live soccer experience . Dude if there's a toronto cpl game on a weekend tfc aren't playing are you actually not gonna watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper1917 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Ok im several beer in tonight but..... I am going a little off topic. Everyone seems convinced the Toronto Wolfpack is going to be a failure. I actually am looking forward to seeing how it does. I am not as pessimistic. People keep saying 'traveling costs will kill them'? I think the costs are similar to fly Halifax to London as Halifax Vancouver. Not to mention Air Transat is their main sponsor (great move). I actually watched their first friendly game and am intrigued. Apparently they have sold 3000+ season tickets to date - Im not counting them out yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 1 hour ago, grasshopper1917 said: Ok im several beer in tonight but..... I am going a little off topic. Everyone seems convinced the Toronto Wolfpack is going to be a failure. I actually am looking forward to seeing how it does. I am not as pessimistic. People keep saying 'traveling costs will kill them'? I think the costs are similar to fly Halifax to London as Halifax Vancouver. Not to mention Air Transat is their main sponsor (great move). I actually watched their first friendly game and am intrigued. Apparently they have sold 3000+ season tickets to date - Im not counting them out yet. I actually don't think it will flop the way some are predicting. Canada is the biggest rugby market outside of the Six Nations (we're actually bigger than Italy), Australia, New Zealand and South Africa and it's pretty much completely untapped. If this team will also literally be playing at the highest level of play in the Americas as a whole so it's hard to think they won't be able to bring in rugby fans and it won't have to worry about any other leagues competing with it. The Wolfpack are the peak of rugby league in the Americas (the Wolfpack are already bigger than every team in the USA as well). The ownership sounds like a solid group and the Transat deal was massive. All that said, I see them facing road blocks, related to league requirements, that could seriously hurt them. The only real gripe I have with the Wolfpack is that if it fails then I think it could kill a pro Canadian rugby league, which, if it happened tomorrow, would be bigger than the US league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Ansem said: I would expect a deep pockets owner of a Toronto franchise to be able to replicate at the very least what Halifax is doing. Finding land and build at the very least an Empire Field type of stadium at the beginning. Also, Manning interview is kind of letting on that CPL are thinking Toronto itself as a landing spot, not suburbs...otherwise he wouldn't be "kind of" freaking out about the idea I think he'd freak out over any location in the GTA. 4 hours ago, 1996 said: Keep dreaming with this CPL Toronto stuff, as a Toronto native born and bred TFC is where it's at in terms of pro soccer. This is Toronto we are talking about , not Regina , Edmonton , Calgary and I could go on and on. The Argos who play in a league that is backed by one of Canada's biggest sports network that bombards us with wall to wall Argo and CFL coverage , that plays in a league with all that history and yet struggles to draw fans for what only 8 home dates and who play in an all Canadian league , however, now an upstart soccer league with no name players will be able to make it in the Toronto market who will get next to no mainstream media coverage , please come on. Start a Canadian league if you have to but thinking you can put a team in Toronto and make it work ya ok! Hey are the old Toronto Lynx owners still around maybe they might want to own the new Toronto CPL team, you know the owners who stated that an MLS team in Toronto would draw flies how did that prediction work out for them lol. Being in a Canadian league has nothing to do with how much a sports team will draw. The CFL draws flies because nobody has any passionate affinity towards grid iron foot ball here besides watching an odd NFL game. That's the reason. It's not because the Argos are in an all Canadian league. 4 hours ago, 1996 said: Toronto my friend can support a second pro soccer team but only if it was a second MLS team, just like Toronto could support two NHL teams and even two NBA teams and even two NFL teams , see what I'm doing here , Toronto is North America's 4th largest market we may be a Canadian city but we really are more than just a Canadian city we compared ourselves to the NYC and Chicago and LA not Edmonton , Regina and Moosejaw of the world, that's why leagues like the CFL and this new proposes CPL does not interest us . Like I wrote on here one time , where was the CFL and the Scott Mitchel types when the old CSL was around a league that had teams from coast to coast, how come the good old CFL did not step in and try to save that league, but now when they see the MLS gaining ground and even surpassing the CFL in three of Canada's biggest cities, now they are stepping in to try and establish a Canadian soccer league , give me a break please lol. No. Toronto can support a second pro soccer team if they are professionally run, well presented and play in a SSS like TFC. MLS has little to do with it. 3 hours ago, 1996 said: Good for you if I was 20 years younger I may have too, but I'm not so time for you young guys to step up then. Like I said I paid my dues when it comes to putting my hard earn money to supporting pro soccer here in Toronto and Canada , TFC and the MLS is as good as it gets for my local live soccer experience . Just like BBTB, you seem to have a self defeatist attitude due to age. I know what it is with both of you. You're all jealous that you both probably won't be around to see a true Canadian soccer Renaissance like the rest of us. You feel because you never witnessed it, you don't want the rest of us to witness it either. That's just a selfish point of view to have old timer. I think you need to do a little self reflection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Macksam said: ....No. Toronto can support a second pro soccer team if they are professionally run, well presented and play in a SSS like TFC. MLS has little to do with it..... ...........I think a SSS is asking too much right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Macksam said: Just like BBTB, you seem to have a self defeatist attitude due to age. I know what it is with both of you. You're all jealous that you both probably won't be around to see a true Canadian soccer Renaissance like the rest of us. You feel because you never witnessed it, you don't want the rest of us to witness it either. That's just a selfish point of view to have old timer. I think you need to do a little self reflection. Well lets look at Canada's record over the national and league wise over the 105 year history excluding MLS and NASL. They have (1) WC appearance, (1) Gold Cup win, (1) failed CSL league and (1) Olympic Gold Medal won when the Olympics were founded. I see why alot of people can be pessimistic about the state of Canadian Futbol. That its taken this long for the Canadian Futbol Renaissance to potentially happen is just sad. If you want to be happy and joyful thats all on you. I've seen this song and dance before like others, and so far doesn't seem much different than the last attempt of the creating a Canadian only league. If if survives past the 10 yr mark once it wver gets off the ground, maybe I might change my tune, but for now, we'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 7 hours ago, Ansem said: It's ok. My generation will take if from here. Thanks Only, that's really not what's happening given the investors and officials that are involved in the decision making on this will tend to be in the 40-70 age range. Bob Young, Victor Montagliani and Paul Beirne are not millenials and neither are Dino Rossi, Duane Rollins and Anthony Totera for that matter. Talk of a renaissance is also a bit of a stretch, if people are claiming that it only started in the last ten years with the younger generation. Original NASL teams like the Blizzard, Manic and Whitecaps were generating a comparable level of interest to what MLS teams are now as far back as 35 to 40 years ago, which is half a lifetime for most people. There used to be Roberto Bettega where now there is Sebastian Giovinco and hopefully some day soon we can make a comparison with Eusebio and Metros-Croatia, if/when TFC actually win MLS Cup. The difference between MLS and the original NASL is that they managed to get the economic model right this time around. The jury is still out on whether the "CPL" people have learned anything from the CPSL and CSL fiascos of the 1980s and early 1990s in a similar sort of way. From my vantage point, I don't see much evidence of it so far. Also suspect that they don't have Edmonton and Ottawa on board and that the USSF D2 sanctioning issue unfolding the way it did made it very difficult for a "CPL" type setup to proceed now with anything in 2018 and possibly even beyond that if they don't scale back their ambitions a bit given that only leaves 4 CFL markets with no pro soccer with one of them being Regina, which is way too small to ever be viewed as a reasonably safe bet where pro soccer is concerned. Suspect this saga will drag on for a while until it becomes clear whether FC Edmonton and the NASL are going to be viable or not in the short to medium term and until there is more clarity on the 2026 World Cup bid as there is still some light at the end of the tunnel for the hard core true believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Only, that's really not what's happening given the investors and officials that are involved in the decision making on this will tend to be in the 40-70 age range. Bob Young, Victor Montagliani and Paul Beirne are not millenials and neither are Dino Rossi, Duane Rollins and Anthony Totera for that matter. All that text over 1 line? Lol. It's my generation that will fill those seats and account for much of the revenue. Otherwise, your generation would have kept their cash in their pockets. The article on Montreal Impact gave us a huge picture on who went to the games and consume the product. 50% are between 18-43 and 75% are 45 or younger. That's what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 8 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said: Ok im several beer in tonight but..... I am going a little off topic. Everyone seems convinced the Toronto Wolfpack is going to be a failure. I actually am looking forward to seeing how it does. I am not as pessimistic. People keep saying 'traveling costs will kill them'? I think the costs are similar to fly Halifax to London as Halifax Vancouver. Not to mention Air Transat is their main sponsor (great move). I actually watched their first friendly game and am intrigued. Apparently they have sold 3000+ season tickets to date - Im not counting them out yet. It's not just their own travel costs; it's that they're paying everyone else's trans-atlantic travel costs in exchange for league membership. That's a hell of a price tag to pay, and one that English third-tier rugby wouldn't be willing to pick up on a whim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ansem said: It's my generation that will fill those seats and account for much of the revenue. Otherwise, your generation would have kept their cash in their pockets. Who fills the hospitality suites and the most expensive seats at the halfway line that generate a disproportionate portion of the overall revenue? I'll give you a clue. It's not millenials, so the revenues generated skew heavily towards the older generations that are willing/able to pay the higher ticket prices. Beyond that if you look at Ottawa for an example of what happens at D2 level sort of league rather than with a genuine D1 like MLS, you will find that the youth soccer minivan crowd is being used to generate a lot of the 5000+ announced attendance numbers, because young adults have not been coming out in droves to do something similar to what happened in Toronto in 2007. This generational thing that you are trying to peddle is a dead end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Who fills the hospitality suites and the most expensive seats at the halfway line that generate a disproportionate portion of the overall revenue? I'll give you a clue. It's not millenials, so the revenues generated skew heavily towards the older generations that are willing/able to pay the higher ticket prices. Beyond that if you look at Ottawa for an example of what happens at D2 level sort of league rather than with a genuine D1 like MLS, you will find that the youth soccer minivan crowd is being used to generate a lot of the 5000+ announced attendance numbers, because young adults have not been coming out in droves to do something similar to what happened in Toronto in 2007. This generational thing that you are trying to peddle is a dead end. Let's agree to disagree on that until you can support that with any kind of data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Gopherbashi said: It's not just their own travel costs; it's that they're paying everyone else's trans-atlantic travel costs in exchange for league membership. That's a hell of a price tag to pay, and one that English third-tier rugby wouldn't be willing to pick up on a whim. They are not paying for travel. They are sponsored by Air Transat who are covering all of their travel as well as all the clubs coming to Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I do wonder what the suite/club revenue et al is for the Fury as a proportion of the overall ticketing revenue. I'll do some digging. BBTB is 100% right when it comes to the Leafs/Jays/Raptors/TFC though. I don't think anyone needs to put too much thought into it - corporations, rich people and pro/amateur scalpers own the high priced season tickets everywhere. There's not many archetypal grassroots sports fans who are paying $6000 per seat for seasons for the first three. TFC is the closest to affordableness because they have less games, but even then the highest tiers run you around $100 per game (and the 1,000 people in the 'lower red' section provide the same ticket revenue as the entirety of the south end of BMO). However, I do not know how much that will apply to a CPL team, who will likely be playing in a stadium with far less corporate amenities and significantly cheaper prices. There's obviously too many moving parts between stadium costs, sponsorships, payroll etc to figure out a true number, but yeah I'd agree that 6K people paying $15 per game or something certainly won't cut it for a team here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 TFC: Supports the league only if they don't compete and wish to dump their C-Squad in it Impact: Hostile to it. Considers Quebec theirs Whitecaps: Most likely hostile to it as they view Manitoba to BC as theirs https://mobile.twitter.com/24thminute/status/832666518924165122 https://mobile.twitter.com/24thminute/status/832666781881765889 https://mobile.twitter.com/24thminute/status/832667052464680960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 ...so if that means 5 out of 6 CFL markets with over 1 million people gone, where do things go from here if 6,000-8,000 is still the break even? It's starting to become obvious why we are only hearing anything from Hamilton, Halifax and K/W. Suspect this is going nowhere fast unless the NASL goes into a final and definitive death spiral later this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, Ansem said: Whitecaps: Most likely hostile to it as they view Manitoba to BC as theirs Are they on fucking crack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 16 minutes ago, matty said: Are they on fucking crack? Lol! Entitled & greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, matty said: Are they on fucking crack? I think Duane Rollins is underestimating the geographical scale of their ambitions given they have a training centre in London, Ontario. http://londonyouthwhitecaps.com/site/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Just now, Ansem said: Lol! Entitled & greedy Did you ever watch the show Xavier Rengade Angel? It was an Adult Swim. The lead character Xavier is descriped like so on Wikipedia "A self-absorbed and oblivious faun-like shaman wanderer with delusions of grandeur, Xavier is the eponymous main character of the program, often shown to be a deeply insecure, near-sociopathic and childlike individual who can quickly turn against others if interactions with them lead to negative feelings about himself." I am somewhat getting these vibes from the Caps lol 1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: I think Duane Rollins is underestimating the geographical scale of their ambitions given they have a training centre in London, Ontario. I don't think anyone is, they're big on setting up schools from sea to sea and making sure everyone knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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