Canadian Premier League

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

1 hour ago, Complete Homer said:

Could also just be that he's confident that MLS will become profitable, and that isn't a known for CPL at this point. 

If he wants to add soccer to his profile, CPL will be the way to go, as MLS is pretty unlikely to expand to Canada again, much less Edmonton. Maybe down the line he pays an expansion fee to get in

Hey now.  I'm not saying it's likely MLS will expand into Edmonton, but it's the most likely Canadian city at this point, even though it's a long shot/not going to happen.

[grasshopper1917]

Which leads to another big question. When will MLS stop expanding. They just keep sucking up almost any half way successful club in other leagues. Would they make a play for successful CPL teams?

[kmacphee]

The way I see it, at a point, (around 30 teams for most North American leagues) the new franshise fees don't cover the splitting of the TV money pie.  That's why the major leagues top out around 30.  

 

[Macksam]

14 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Which leads to another big question. When will MLS stop expanding. They just keep sucking up almost any half way successful club in other leagues. Would they make a play for successful CPL teams?

When the league probably gets a US billion dollar plus TV contract. At that point, the owners won't want to split the TV money any further and will start to NFL it when it comes to holding city council's hostage by pitting them against each other for free stadiums.

7 minutes ago, kmacphee said:

The way I see it, at a point, (around 30 teams for most North American leagues) the new franshise fees balance don't cover the splititing of the TV money pie.  That's why the major leagues top out around 30.  

 

This.

[Ansem]

LRT Cambridge proposed route announced

Kitchener-Waterloo LRT

This further reinforce the strong links between Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge as an important urban and technological pole... of course, a viable CPL Market. Building a Stadium near an LRT stop would be a winner!

Population: 523,894 as of 2016 with a 5.5% increase since 2011...also 10th most populous metropolitan area in Canada http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/170208/t003a-eng.htm

Potential for sponsorship and corporate support: It's Canada Silicon Valley with also a high concentration of insurance companies.

Demographics: According to the 2011 Canadian Census, the median age was 37.6 years old, lower than the national median age at 40.6 years old. The median household income (after-taxes) in Waterloo is $67,150, fairly higher than the national average at $54,089.

Go Tri-City!!!

 

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Which leads to another big question. When will MLS stop expanding. They just keep sucking up almost any half way successful club in other leagues. Would they make a play for successful CPL teams?

They could even go to 32 as they have like 12 applications. But this will hurt their quality on the field with the dilution of talent for domestic players (which was already very average). The Chinese Super League pretty much guarantees that MLS will never outbid them fort established DPs

[Rheo]

10 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They could even go to 32 as they have like 12 applications. But this will hurt their quality on the field with the dilution of talent for domestic players (which was already very average). The Chinese Super League pretty much guarantees that MLS will never outbid them fort established DPs

I've read/heard guesses half jokingly of up to 40.  I think the TV money split will be a big factor going forward though.

CSL is bringing in their own version of fair play though which could hinder the DP money figures going forward.

[matty]

12 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They could even go to 32 as they have like 12 applications. But this will hurt their quality on the field with the dilution of talent for domestic players (which was already very average). The Chinese Super League pretty much guarantees that MLS will never outbid them fort established DPs

CSL might be able to outbid but the CSL also suffers from stricter roster rules iirc

[matty]

While we're briefly on MLS vs CSL. I imagine we'll see the CPL and ISL going after quite a few of the same guys, not the retired ones or the 40 year-olds but the guys in their mid-30s.

[Ansem]

10 minutes ago, matty said:

While we're briefly on MLS vs CSL. I imagine we'll see the CPL and ISL going after quite a few of the same guys, not the retired ones or the 40 year-olds but the guys in their mid-30s.

ISL?

Also, CPL should go young. Focus on creating your own stars because it's unlikely we'll be acquiring any stars in the near future. It's not worth overpaying for guys in their mid 30s when you can acquire 2 or 3 promising young Internationals at the same price who will enter their prime while under contract in CPL...

Also, the CSA should slap a Canadian Passport on them for good measure to expand our pool eligible for the national team.

That's how smart CPL needs to be to create it's own identity and to find a way to compensate their inability to compete with more established leagues for talents that are established with a track-record

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Which leads to another big question. When will MLS stop expanding. They just keep sucking up almost any half way successful club in other leagues. Would they make a play for successful CPL teams?

I don't think MLS will expand into Canada again unless they are pushing 40. I worry about Calgary slightly, I remember CSEC making a statement a few years ago at a CalgaryNEXT town hall that they'd consider an MLS bid down the line

[matty]

25 minutes ago, Ansem said:

ISL?

Also, CPL should go young. Focus on creating your own stars because it's unlikely we'll be acquiring any stars in the near future. It's not worth overpaying for guys in their mid 30s when you can acquire 2 or 3 promising young Internationals at the same price who will enter their prime while under contract in CPL...

Also, the CSA should slap a Canadian Passport on them for good measure to expand our pool eligible for the national team.

That's how smart CPL needs to be to create it's own identity and to find a way to compensate their inability to compete with more established leagues for talents that are established with a track-record

Dude I know your point and agree it would work but you know that's not likely (as there's a proven model with established players drawing) to happen and that a start up league will have a hard time securing highly talented youngsters.

Your idea is down the line for sure but first 5 years I'm very doubtful

ISL is India

[Gopherbashi]

I keep getting confused as to why we're talking about the Canadian Soccer League and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.

[Diamondium]

30 minutes ago, Ansem said:

ISL?

Also, CPL should go young. Focus on creating your own stars because it's unlikely we'll be acquiring any stars in the near future. It's not worth overpaying for guys in their mid 30s when you can acquire 2 or 3 promising young Internationals at the same price who will enter their prime while under contract in CPL...

Also, the CSA should slap a Canadian Passport on them for good measure to expand our pool eligible for the national team.

That's how smart CPL needs to be to create it's own identity and to find a way to compensate their inability to compete with more established leagues for talents that are established with a track-record

 

9 minutes ago, matty said:

Dude I know your point and agree it would work but you know that's not likely to happen and that a start up league will have a hard time securing highly talented youngsters

This is a good point. We can all agree that a youth-heavy league would be good for marketing and development, but it's easy to forget at this point that once the league starts up, all the teams that worked together to get it going will be competing against each-other to win said league. One team might go for youth, but their neighboring team might opt for veterans and take the league title first year. Next thing you know other teams are going after vets to keep up with the vet-heavy team.

You can't dictate who they sign once it's all going apart from some roster restrictions. Best thing you can do is just let the league run and work itself out over time. There will probably be lots of veteran signings at the start, but once teams have solid established youth programs things will normalize.

[matty]

16 minutes ago, Diamondium said:

 

This is a good point. We can all agree that a youth-heavy league would be good for marketing and development, but it's easy to forget at this point that once the league starts up, all the teams that worked together to get it going will be competing against each-other to win said league. One team might go for youth, but their neighboring team might opt for veterans and take the league title first year. Next thing you know other teams are going after vets to keep up with the vet-heavy team.

You can't dictate who they sign once it's all going apart from some roster restrictions. Best thing you can do is just let the league run and work itself out over time. There will probably be lots of veteran signings at the start, but once teams have solid established youth programs things will normalize.

I wouldn't say it's necessarily good marketing. A young heavy league would look good on paper and definitely has the potential to give the league a different feel than MLS but I feel there is a real risk of people thinking "these are the guys that are not good enough for a serious league". The CPL would be better off building some history before jumping after U23 guys as the league's stars.

There's also the issue of will young guys want to come to a start up league. A lot of the type of guys I think @Ansem is talking about would be u23 guys (and even younger as I saw him mention 18 year olds once) with a lot of skill that could carry a team. These types of players often are focused more on moving to big clubs or making the national team, I don't see the CPL aiding them for a while.

Now we will see a lot of u23 guys but I'm thinking they'll be mostly Canadians, Americans trying to prove themselves for MLS and possibly some loanees from various leagues. I also think the Caribbean will be a big provider for the CPL talent pool and that we'll see some young national team players from the region.

[Ansem]

To clarify, domestic players should be the veterans and younger players that are good enough to make the team.

Internationals and DP should be young exclusively. They are cheaper and some of them have not made their country national team. Meaning you can give them a passport and cap them for Canada.

[matty]

3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

To clarify, domestic players should be the veterans and younger players that are good enough to make the team.

Internationals and DP should be young exclusively. They are cheaper and some of them have not made their country national team. Meaning you can give them a passport and cap them for Canada.

I understand but I don't think it'll work out that way. Going exclusively young will not really aid anyone and I have a few issues with the passport point.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

LRT Cambridge proposed route announced

 

Kitchener-Waterloo LRT

This further reinforce the strong links between Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge as an important urban and technological pole... of course, a viable CPL Market. Building a Stadium near an LRT stop would be a winner!

Population: 523,894 as of 2016 with a 5.5% increase since 2011...also 10th most populous metropolitan area in Canada http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/170208/t003a-eng.htm

Potential for sponsorship and corporate support: It's Canada Silicon Valley with also a high concentration of insurance companies.

Demographics: According to the 2011 Canadian Census, the median age was 37.6 years old, lower than the national median age at 40.6 years old. The median household income (after-taxes) in Waterloo is $67,150, fairly higher than the national average at $54,089.

Go Tri-City!!!

Could you or anyone tell us who the partners are on that LRT, trains, tracks, engineering? Just curious.

[Dub Narcotic]

Data point: Jeff Mallett claimed that the Whitecaps are spending $6M/year on their development system. That includes USL and the academy teams.

[Levi Oakey]

40 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Could you or anyone tell us who the partners are on that LRT, trains, tracks, engineering? Just curious.

Bombardier is the train builder. The Consortium who leads the group is Grand Linq made up of a handful of local and canadian business peeps. They had a bunch of bidders.

http://www.rideion.ca/about-grandlinq.html

 

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

LRT Cambridge proposed route announced

This further reinforce the strong links between Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge as an important urban and technological pole... of course, a viable CPL Market. Building a Stadium near an LRT stop would be a winner!

Population: 523,894 as of 2016 with a 5.5% increase since 2011...also 10th most populous metropolitan area in Canada http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/170208/t003a-eng.htm

Potential for sponsorship and corporate support: It's Canada Silicon Valley with also a high concentration of insurance companies.

Demographics: According to the 2011 Canadian Census, the median age was 37.6 years old, lower than the national median age at 40.6 years old. The median household income (after-taxes) in Waterloo is $67,150, fairly higher than the national average at $54,089.

Go Tri-City!!!

 

This is well beyond proposal, but they are being mum about it all. New infrastructure grants should make the whole thing cost significantly less than existing. Plan also includes express bus to Guelph by 2019 (when the new highway is complete). Already LRT has brought about a ton of economic growth, especially in residential as the population begins to urbanize: http://www.therecord.com/news-story/7138490-workplace-development-near-lrt-stations-lagging-home-building/

 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

lol fuck it, prop up bombardier if it means easy transport to soccer matches for potential fans.  

I don't let things like political ideology get in the way of CPL

[ted]

On 2017-02-11 at 7:22 AM, kmacphee said:

 We invented the donair

You might say, you are the Kings of the Donair...

(I can't believe no one else said it.)

On 2017-02-11 at 0:06 PM, Gopherbashi said:

If you're counting on poor, starving university students to be a season-long, money-paying fanbase, you're gonna have a bad time.

If you are not targeting the most reliable demographic when it comes to professional sports you are gonna have a worse time.  The league needs enthusiastic bums in seats and males, aged 18-35 are the ones most likely to provide. Arranging promotions for and marketing to students is smart business for pro sports.

Affordable tickets, decent concessions and merchandise in styles and price points attractive to "starving university students" are all realistic possibilities.

 

On 2017-02-13 at 7:16 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

8000 people paying an average of $15 for 15 games gives you $1.8 million, which would be on the low side to sustain a $1.5 million player budget plus off-field expenses, marketing and air travel,

Not really. Ticket revenue in a sustainable league should be less than 50% of the total revenue for the team. It may take a while to get there but aiming to finance a team on tickets sales alone is a recipe for disaster at any professional club in the 21st century.

[Complete Homer]

I have to agree with the idea that university students aren't a great demographic. At least in my relatively recent experience, undergrads tend to prefer the sports bar if they are fans, and have too much fluctuation in workload to become reliable season ticket holders.

IIRC, at my university you got 1 free ticket per season per sport as a student, most people used it for one or two events and never paid much attention otherwise. 

They have value in making it a young, culturally relevant crowd, but won't drive attendance 

 

[Rheo]

I don't think any sports league would consider university students as their prime demographic other than the CIS.  They are a demographic and one that should be appealed to but then they should be appealing to every demographic.  

We may have jumped the shark when we're arguing this lol.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

21 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

They have value in making it a young, culturally relevant crowd, but won't drive attendance 

this is more what I meant.  

The uni students will make it cool(or not).  If they come out it'll make it, as you said, culturally relevant and others will follow(families, adults, etc)

but no I wouldn't count on them as your primary revenue source.  I just mean in terms of actually generating buzz they're gonna be the best bang for the buck.