Canadian Premier League

[Complete Homer]

2 minutes ago, PJSweet said:

 Edmonton are once again reviving the idea of building a soccer specific stadium. This leads me to believe that the Edmonton Oilers are probably the real investors of the Edmonton CPL team. No one deals with this type of ca$h unless it's the Oilers.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/02/09/dan-barnes-mid-sized-stadium-in-edmonton-could-be-back-on-the-table

Interesting idea, but it seems like they are aiming at public money, so it's not necessary for Kratz to be in to justify the story. There's even a quote from Fath in there

[Alex D]

I feel like FC Edmonton will join the league eventually. It makes way too much sense for them, with a rival Calgary team, less travel and the cost certainty of dealing only in the Canadian dollar.

They just have to wait until the NASL is on the road to recovery and someone is willing to buy their shares. Or the NASL folds spectacularly. 

[dyslexic nam]

3 minutes ago, Alex D said:

I feel like FC Edmonton will join the league eventually. It makes way too much sense for them, with a rival Calgary team, less travel and the cost certainty of dealing only in the Canadian dollar.

They just have to wait until the NASL is on the road to recovery and someone is willing to buy their shares. Or the NASL folds spectacularly. 

I don't keep track of all the drama around NASL and what FCEd stands to gain by staying in or being the last one standing (or whatever) but on a common sense level it definitely seems like they should gravitate to CPL.  A Canadian league, with real rivalries -including an ever-popular battle of Alberta- should be enough incentive to make them seriously consider jumping to CPL.  And the same would apply to Ottawa moving from USL.  Local rivalries driven by fans with the extra incentive of supporting a Canadian league.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

50 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

On Sportsnet Central Montreal (a weekly sports show) last night they talked about MLS wanting to grow their presence in Canada and with 5 sports reporters on the show nobody even mentioned a word about a possibility of new pro Cdn soccer league. Could it be possible that not one had an idea about the CPL? I found it strange and disappointing.

It's been flying under the radar for most people that don't read blogs and listen to podcasts, because the Ticats have kept things relatively low key beyond the bubble, which is part of John McGrane's indoor soccer business interests, and Victor Montagliani also appears to me to have been careful to keep his quotes on the subject hidden away where only the hardcore will tend to see them and hasn't really been shouting about it from the rooftops to the extent he could have been.

[Shway]

5 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I don't keep track of all the drama around NASL and what FCEd stands to gain by staying in or being the last one standing (or whatever) but on a common sense level it definitely seems like they should gravitate to CPL.  A Canadian league, with real rivalries -including an ever-popular battle of Alberta- should be enough incentive to make them seriously consider jumping to CPL.  And the same would apply to Ottawa moving from USL.  Local rivalries driven by fans with the extra incentive of supporting a Canadian league.

FC edmonton owners (Fath Bros) own a % of the B shares in the NASL. If you're not familiar with what that is....take a read: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/classbshares.asp

 

What that means to me is that they are heavily invested in the NASL deeper than the FC Edmonton itself.

[masster]

41 minutes ago, Alex D said:

Nobody in Cincinnati cares about who they are playing against right now, it's all about pushing for MLS. Same goes for Sacramento and San Antonio. 

And when that MLS dream fails for one or two of those markets, then what? You will see a drop off in support and they will start to care pretty fast.

[Diamondium]

19 minutes ago, Alex D said:

I feel like FC Edmonton will join the league eventually. It makes way too much sense for them, with a rival Calgary team, less travel and the cost certainty of dealing only in the Canadian dollar.

They just have to wait until the NASL is on the road to recovery and someone is willing to buy their shares. Or the NASL folds spectacularly. 

As a fan in the Edmonton area, I hope very much that this is the case. Stadium, minor league status, and lack of any notable rivalries has really made it completely unappealing to the average sports fan around here. A move to the CPL would eliminate two of those off the bat, 3 if they got a stadium that doesn't look like a high school's bleachers (especially if it didn't have football lines on the field). 

2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It's been flying under the radar for most people that don't read blogs and listen to podcasts, because the Ticats have kept things relatively low key beyond the bubble, which is part of John McGrane's indoor soccer business interests, and Victor Montagliani also appears to me to have been careful to keep his quotes on the subject hidden away where only the hardcore will tend to see them and hasn't really been shouting about it from the rooftops to the extent he could have been.

Yeah, they've definitely been intentionally keeping a tight lip on it. They likely want to get everything in order and have control over what the public is expecting than to just announce and hype up and figure everything else later *cough*XFL*cough*. If you have control over what is being publicly released, you can set the public's expectations and not have outrage if there is a setback or two. Plus, if you announce a bit closer to opening, people will be more likely to remain interested by the time it does open rather than announcing super early and all the hype dying down by the time the start rolls around.

At least that's how I would go about it if I was in that position.

[Complete Homer]

15 minutes ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

FC edmonton owners (Fath Bros) own a % of the B shares in the NASL. If you're not familiar with what that is....take a read: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/classbshares.asp

 

What that means to me is that they are heavily invested in the NASL deeper than the FC Edmonton itself.

And even if they got bought out, the quotes from Sandor over the years make it sound like he's sick and tired of trying to build a soccer league and doesn't want to start over. 

I can see them joining eventually, but I think it would involve Katz getting the message that MLS isn't happening in Edmonton, and making a move to buy Fath out. I know this was rejected before, but that doesn't preclude a second bid down the line 

[Rheo]

4 minutes ago, masster said:

And when that MLS dream fails for one or two of those markets, then what? You will see a drop off in support and they will start to care pretty fast.

Or you've created enough of a supporter culture that they care about the team and not the league. Yeah some will drop off but once you have the foundation you're basically set.

I've seen it with Detroit City FC, a semi-pro team that averaged 5k a season in a fourth division league last year, through hard work and an amazing culture around the club and supporters. 

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, MrSabiondo said:

I was just thinking what if this would facilitate a permanent move for TFC, Montreal Impact and VWC if for example CPL is in the long run more successful in Canada than the MLS.

Than you'd have a fiscal argument to pitch those 3 teams to defect to CPL. I'm thinking the ballpark of the CFL TV contract, attendance and salary structure. No longer having to pay players in US dollars is a huge advantage.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Rheo said:

I get that but it's not like the league is going to be filled with recognizable names that are going to speak to casual fan.  There isn't a David Beckham that's going to bring people in.  The more I think about it, I believe that the league is going to be sold on the live atmosphere that people see on TV and want to experience it.  

The best route CPL can go is to avoid replicating MLS.

GO YOUNG!!! Cheaper and full of potential. If they blossom in CPL, those DPs/International will have been homegrown and that's what CPL I'm hoping will be pursuing. While you're at it, that 18 year old from Paraguay who's seems full of potential...slap a Canadian passport on him so he's eligible to play for the national team.

@CPL: Go young, because there will be no outbidding anyone for established players.

[Ansem]

41 minutes ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

FC edmonton owners (Fath Bros) own a % of the B shares in the NASL. If you're not familiar with what that is....take a read: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/classbshares.asp

 

What that means to me is that they are heavily invested in the NASL deeper than the FC Edmonton itself.

Best case scenario is Fath being bought out by deeper pockets. Through enough money for him to recoup his investment and some and he'll sell. Acquiring FC Edmonton with a rebrand is easier than starting from scratch as you have an existing organization and assets in place.

[Rheo]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

The best route CPL can go is to avoid replicating MLS.

GO YOUNG!!! Cheaper and full of potential. If they blossom in CPL, those DPs/International will have been homegrown and that's what CPL I'm hoping will be pursuing. While you're at it, that 18 year old from Paraguay who's seems full of potential...slap a Canadian passport on him so he's eligible to play for the national team.

@CPL: Go young, because there will be no outbidding anyone for established players.

For the record I wasn't advocating bringing in big names, just saying they won't be coming in regards to the casual fans.  With all the focus here on the perception from the casual fans if they were affiliates associated with the league that I'm beginning to think it may not matter in the grand scheme.  It's the culture that the clubs and supporters create that is going to make or break this league long term.  That's why I've been encouraged by the early formation of groups and officials making contact with them.  

[matty]

38 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The best route CPL can go is to avoid replicating MLS.

GO YOUNG!!! Cheaper and full of potential. If they blossom in CPL, those DPs/International will have been homegrown and that's what CPL I'm hoping will be pursuing. While you're at it, that 18 year old from Paraguay who's seems full of potential...slap a Canadian passport on him so he's eligible to play for the national team.

@CPL: Go young, because there will be no outbidding anyone for established players.

The league should have two slots for dps and one should be used for a younger guy and the other should be used for a star type player. If they have only one slot then using the older guys to start is more likely and fine. Over time we'll start seeing a shift to younger dps.

On the last point, i actually think it may be harder to get quality u23 guys than a decent 33+ plus guy.

28 minutes ago, Rheo said:

For the record I wasn't advocating bringing in big names, just saying they won't be coming in regards to the casual fans.  With all the focus here on the perception from the casual fans if they were affiliates associated with the league that I'm beginning to think it may not matter in the grand scheme.  It's the culture that the clubs and supporters create that is going to make or break this league long term.  That's why I've been encouraged by the early formation of groups and officials making contact with them.  

The older star types can bring them in and the culture makes them stay. Both are are great but the later is more important.

[Kent]

I'm not dead set against DPs, but my wish would be that they would use money that could be spent on DPs to better improve the team by spreading out amongst several players, so that they are more competitive in the Voyageurs Cup against the MLS clubs and/or more competitive in the CCL.

It's hard to say which would be more appealing to the casual fan.

a ) Teams that consistently crash out of the Voyageurs Cup because they can't compete with MLS teams, but they have some ageing stars,

or

b ) a team that can give MLS teams a good match, but lack star power.

[Gopherbashi]

6 minutes ago, Kent said:

I'm not dead set against DPs, but my wish would be that they would use money that could be spent on DPs to better improve the team by spreading out amongst several players, so that they are more competitive in the Voyageurs Cup against the MLS clubs and/or more competitive in the CCL.

It's hard to say which would be more appealing to the casual fan.

a ) Teams that consistently crash out of the Voyageurs Cup because they can't compete with MLS teams, but they have some ageing stars,

or

b ) a team that can give MLS teams a good match, but lack star power.

Remember that the aging "stars" who will sign a CPL-budget contract aren't exactly going to be well-known to your casual fan.  We're not talking Beckhams and Messis here.

[matty]

8 minutes ago, Kent said:

 

It's hard to say which would be more appealing to the casual fan.

a ) Teams that consistently crash out of the Voyageurs Cup because they can't compete with MLS teams, but they have some ageing stars,

or

b ) a team that can give MLS teams a good match, but lack star power.

I don't know the vcup will be a big deal for the first few years to the fans but yea after like 5 seasons if the cpl is still gettimg beat to shit it'll matter. If we're just talking the first few years I'd say option a.

5 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Remember that the aging "stars" who will sign a CPL-budget contract aren't exactly going to be well-known to your casual fan.  We're not talking Beckhams and Messis here.

I agree and the cpl should avoid bring dudes out of retirement like they do in india. We would likely be seeing dudes with impressive resumes rather than big names if there are dps.

[Alex D]

It would be nice to see one roster spot on each team that doesn't count towards the cap for a Canadian international. Maybe the CSA can subsidize this like they do in the NWSL. It would be a good way to put a Canadian face on the league. 

[Alex D]

3 hours ago, masster said:

And when that MLS dream fails for one or two of those markets, then what? You will see a drop off in support and they will start to care pretty fast.

Rochester 2.0

2 hours ago, Rheo said:

Or you've created enough of a supporter culture that they care about the team and not the league. Yeah some will drop off but once you have the foundation you're basically set.

I've seen it with Detroit City FC, a semi-pro team that averaged 5k a season in a fourth division league last year, through hard work and an amazing culture around the club and supporters. 

Detroit City hasn't got its hopes up for MLS. There will be a big let down in Cincinnati if they don't get in. 

[Rheo]

7 minutes ago, Alex D said:

Detroit City hasn't got its hopes up for MLS. There will be a big let down in Cincinnati if they don't get in. 

Who knows what the supporter culture will be if/when they don't get an MLS team.  It's rather presumptuous to assume that thousands of people who showed up are all just going to go away if MLS doesn't come calling.

[Alex D]

4 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Who knows what the supporter culture will be if/when they don't get an MLS team.  It's rather presumptuous to assume that thousands of people who showed up are all just going to go away if MLS doesn't come calling.

I hope you're right, I've got nothing against FC Cincinnati.

I just realized that saying it happened to Rochester is like saying the CPL will fail because the CSL failed. 

[grasshopper1917]

My thinking about the CPL is as follows.... If you cant find 6 markets to support a team in Canada without resorting to MLS2 teams the project shouldn't go ahead.

The name itself 'Premier League' indicates it is going to be a top flight league. Also from what we have gathered in Halifax from our interaction with the guys at SEA there is a vision behind this league, many smart people working on it and some solid financial backers. My impressions have been the financial people and the ideas people are aligned and working together on a common vision. This vision from what I gather is a stand along top flight professional league with room to grow into something really big. 

I know there are mixed feelings on the USL in the soccer community but here are a few straight facts. Only 4/29 teams drew over 5000 fans. They are the serious exceptions and like someone mention have MLS aspirations. 13/29 teams could not even draw 2000 fans (most of them MLS 2 sides). USL is always touted as a growing league on the move but my view is it is mostly minor league clubs just being propped up by the parents. There is no way those 13 clubs drawing under 2000 could survive on their own. Thus in reality half the league really isn't viable.

In my opinion from what we have been told about this project - the money and ideas people involved with CPL have something a bit bigger in mind. I think Canada is ready for it. It will take some work and there will be some bumps in the road but I think we can get there.  

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

11 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

My thinking about the CPL is as follows.... If you cant find 6 markets to support a team in Canada without resorting to MLS2 teams the project shouldn't go ahead....

Does that mean that you would prefer to have no team to support in Halifax than to watch a game against  a rebranded TFC 2, because that may well be the outcome under that scenario if an 8,000 break even is involved rather than an NBL type economic model? Beyond that it is easy to pour scorn on crowds in the USL when you have no basis to make a comparison on what would happen in Halifax beyond the Nova Scotia Clippers from the early 1990s (technically based in Dartmouth from what I remember before anyone gets pedantic). Personally think a Halifax team would be doing very well to get 2000 paid regardless of what league is involved and have a sinking feeling that there are probably misguided Edmonton Aviators type investors involved.

http://www.eightysixforever.com/2009/4/6/1615807/requiem-for-a-dream-the-edmonton

[Alex D]

In your mind, how do MLS reserve teams save this league when you think every city would be lucky to draw 2,000 fan a game? 2,000 isn't sustainable for any level of fully pro soccer, not even USL. Your league would fold like a cheap suit, so why not at least try to go big? 

Just because you see London TFC as the easiest way to get a team back in London doesn't mean it's right for soccer in Canada. So please stop taking a shit all over this thread with your conspiracy theories, we just want to discuss what is actually happening. 

[kmacphee]

I would argue that Halifax would be one of the best choices for a professional soccer team in Canada.  

Yes, there are plenty of "wishful thinking" opinions on this board...I get that. 

Yes, it will be tough to actively engage and excite 5000 or so Haligonians to consistently pay and show at the wanderers ground.

Yes, we only have 400-450k in our mid-sized city.

Yes, the only professional soccer track record is the Clippers from almost 30 years ago.

But it's a different world now.  soccer is everywhere on TV.  Halifax is a very young city with a large population of soccer fans from abroad.  People who expect to have a local team.

We have intelligent, professional people who have successful careers making money in sports entertainment.  With track records.  These people seem very aware of just what takes to make this awesome.  To say otherwise is disrespectful.

With respect to TFC-II teams,. Look at how Major Junior hockey in Halifax is perceived by paying customer vs the AHL teams that came and went.  AHL hockey is totally superior in quality to Major Junior....but has the stigma of "farm team".  For better or worse, the casual fan avoids farm teams.

None of us can say for sure  how this will unfold, but FFS stop crapping on Halifax.