Jump to content

Canadian Premier League


ted

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 10k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
8 hours ago, Ansem said:

If they are a minority partner in FC London with no say on operational decisions, there's no problem at all

But flat out putting a B Team in the league won't fly

On the first bit, if grasshopper1917's source is in the loop enough to know what he/she is talking about then "the swathe of ownership" that hired Paul Beirne is actually more hardline than you are about this. The Steve Milton interview on TSN also hinted at that being the case although it wasn't directly addressed. On the second bit, TFC have said they are happy to call it something else, but it would still amount to the same thing, which suggests they don't envisage the minority stake in FC London scenario but a rebranded B team along the lines of the now defunct FC Montreal.

If there is no middle ground on this and the investors involved in the "CPL" scenario want to do what the Bill Peterson led NASL did by trying to take on MLS as a direct rival, I have a hard time seeing how this proceeds if the Ottawa Fury and FC Edmonton are not on board and effectively take those markets away at launch along with some or all of Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto, which ties in with the snippet about there still being tonnes of work going on behind the scenes and the next few months being crucial.

My guess would be that there was a push to appear more ready than they really were during the second half of last year in anticipation of the NASL folding, so the CSA could then force Edmonton and Ottawa into a domestic league setup by denying sanctioning in any other context. Then along came Rocco Commisso...

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2017/02/07/commisso-new-york-cosmos-nasl-soccer-columbia-juventus/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

Not that I think it will happen, but I wouldn't completely rule it out. Until we have an actual announcement, all we have is the line of best fit between the data points. If TFC keeps pitching, maybe they find an agreement. Who knows

True I agree with you there anything is possible. Still we were told everyone involved in the project did not want this and they were very conscious of how the league would be perceived. These things however can change day to day im sure. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

On the first bit, if grasshopper1917's source is in the loop enough to know what he/she is talking about then "the swathe of ownership" that hired Paul Beirne is actually more hardline than you are about this. The Steve Milton interview on TSN also hinted at that being the case although it wasn't directly addressed. On the second bit, TFC have said they are happy to call it something else, but it would still amount to the same thing, which suggests they don't envisage the minority stake in FC London scenario but a rebranded B team along the lines of the now defunct FC Montreal.

If there is no middle ground on this and the investors involved in the "CPL" scenario want to do what the Bill Peterson led NASL did by trying to take on MLS as a direct rival, I have a hard time seeing how this proceeds if the Ottawa Fury and FC Edmonton are not on board and effectively take those markets away at launch along with some or all of Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto, which ties in with the snippet about there still being tonnes of work going on behind the scenes and the next few months being crucial.

My guess would be that there was a push to appear more ready than they really were during the second half of last year in anticipation of the NASL folding, so the CSA could then force Edmonton and Ottawa into a domestic league setup by denying sanctioning in any other context. Then along came Rocco Commisso...

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2017/02/07/commisso-new-york-cosmos-nasl-soccer-columbia-juventus/

Oh well... MLSE can push all they want, the ownership seems adamant on no B Team (rebrand or not) in the league

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The bad thing would be, if that ultimately means no team in Hamilton, Halifax or K/W, because it was the "CPL" scenario or nothing where the "swathe of investors" were concerned and compromise with the other stakeholders in Canadian pro soccer was required to be able to make something happen but wasn't possible.

But those investors don't want to devalued their investments. Investing that kind of capital money and losing money just to accommodate MLS clubs by accepting their B teams hence devaluating your asset is business insanity.

I think if down the road, CPL is a monumental flop, then those "B Teams" might be an alternative, but it would be a monumental business mistake to launch a league with a B list status in Canada. CPL should give itself all the tools necessary and opportunities to succeed as a Division 1 league in its own right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Ansem said:

But those investors don't want to devalued their investments. Investing that kind of capital money and losing money just to accommodate MLS clubs by accepting their B teams hence devaluating your asset is business insanity....

Understandable but attempting to go up against MLS in the big three markets could be described that way as well and FC Edmonton and the Ottawa Fury seem to control the viable venues in two of the other three 1 million plus population cities (assuming no Eskimos interest as has always seemed to be suggested in blogs etc), so pretty soon you run out of viable markets for an 8,000 breakeven type setup. People really need to be pushing in the same direction on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Understandable but attempting to go up against MLS in the big three markets could be described that way as well

Pretty sure they are staying clear of Montreal and Vancouver. As for Toronto, the city is big enough for another team.

3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

FC Edmonton and the Ottawa Fury seem to control the viable venues in two of the other three 1 million plus population cities (assuming no Eskimos interest as has always seemed to be suggested in blogs etc),

Control is an exaggeration. NASL and USL have been historically very poor draws in Canada. They aren't major leagues. A fully fledge CPL franchise with "major league" mentality in both markets would be a bigger draw than those 2. The status quo doesn't work.

5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

People really need to be pushing in the same direction on this.

What direction? Keep pushing in the direction that has been a failure for years? USL and NASL doesn't draw in Canada, and you're solution is to drag CPL down to their level replicating what's been done before instead of trying to elevate it beyond them for a bigger chance of success? Strange...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, matty said:

Can we all agree based on the info presented it seems CPL ownership are not in favour of TFC having a team but that they're ok talking with them (possible about other things) and that it would be bad optics for the league to house a MLS b-team?

First bit appears to be the case, second bit isn't as open and shut as some think, in my opinion. Has the presence of MLS B teams made it impossible for FC Cincinnati to draw large crowds? It will be interesting to watch what unfolds in Ottawa this summer and how the soccer community there responds to having an affiliate rather than an independent club and whether they show up in numbers to watch visiting sides like TFC II.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, matty said:

Can we all agree based on the info presented it seems CPL ownership are not in favour of TFC having a team but that they're ok talking with them (possible about other things) and that it would be bad optics for the league to house a MLS b-team?

That seems like a fair assessment. I'm just curious to see what TFC would want to "offer" to get in

I completely agree that TFC II/a renamed equivalent hurts the league's credibility, and assuming they have sufficient numbers to launch without TFCII (seems they do), then TFC would have to make a pretty interesting pitch the CPL ownership to consider it. 

TFC obviously want a team in to lock down CPL as a minor league non-competitor, so what are they willing to offer to get that? Pouring a bunch of money into the central pot? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

First bit appears to be the case, second bit isn't as open and shut as some think, in my opinion. Has the presence of MLS B teams made it impossible for FC Cincinnati to draw large crowds? It will be interesting to watch what unfolds in Ottawa this summer and how the soccer community there responds to having an affiliate rather than an independent club and whether they show up in numbers to watch visiting sides like TFC II.

Cincinnati is an exception not the rule but fair point. Would you agree that it's likely to be bad optics much like Larson has said it would be?

I do agree we should see what happens with Ottawa

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

First bit appears to be the case, second bit isn't as open and shut as some think, in my opinion. Has the presence of MLS B teams made it impossible for FC Cincinnati to draw large crowds? It will be interesting to watch what unfolds in Ottawa this summer and how the soccer community there responds to having an affiliate rather than an independent club and whether they show up in numbers to watch visiting sides like TFC II.

Nobody said that it would be impossible for a team to draw a crowd.  The point he made was that "it would be bad optics" for the league to launch with explicitly b-level teams.  Those are different points.  Yes, if Halifax is hungry for pro soccer, and the "Wanderers" (or whoever) are playing TFC2 they may still be able to draw a crowd.  But that doesn't change the fact that it is worse for the league if a GTA CPL team is clearly a subordinate farm team to TFC than an entirely different beast (e.g. The Hamilton SmogLungs) as the second team for that geographical location.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it possible that we are we overrating the "optics" of having b teams in there?  Outside of the hardcore bubble on here are most people not going just to be interested in that soccer will be played in their community?  If the league and clubs sells the experience of supporter culture, what they saw in the MLS playoff this year in Montreal and Toronto, could that be enough?

I know this might not be popular but we seem to overanalyze things to the tune of 264 pages of posts and could this be another?  I'm not saying I want these teams in here because I don't but it may not be the death of the league before it starts as some predict.  Things aren't always just black or white (or duck/rabbit season).  There can be grey.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Is it possible that we are we overrating the "optics" of having b teams in there?  Outside of the hardcore bubble on here are most people not going just to be interested in that soccer will be played in their community?  If the league and clubs sells the experience of supporter culture, what they saw in the MLS playoff this year in Montreal and Toronto, could that be enough?

I know this might not be popular but we seem to overanalyze things to the tune of 264 pages of posts and could this be another?  I'm not saying I want these teams in here because I don't but it may not be the death of the league before it starts as some predict.  Things aren't always just black or white (or duck/rabbit season).  There can be grey.

 

I would argue that those optics are more important for casual fans than the hardcores. Hardcore fans will support the team no matter what status the league has. New fans would look at a league and if it looks minor league, they lose interest fast. A lot of these communities will already have other competition going on, whether it is NHL, CHL, CFL, or minor league sports themselves. If you want to gain a casual's interest, they'll be much more peaked hearing that their city is getting a team in Canada's top league than if they hear that a new minor league soccer team is coming to their city. Casual fans won't notice the difference between minor and major league on the pitch, they will notice the difference in the presentation.

 

I agree it wouldn't be a league killer, but I do think it would have a pretty notable impact on the general population's outlook on the league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it is being overrated.  I think it gets at the long term vision of the league, and some initial constitutional decisions will have a big impact over the long term.  

 

Inclusion of farm teams will absolutely impact the identity of the league - I don't see how it could bo otherwise.  It will be, both in reality and in appearance, a second tier league.  That may not stop clubs from getting butts in seats in eager markets, but it will establish a ceiling for the league right at the outset.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On Sportsnet Central Montreal (a weekly sports show) last night they talked about MLS wanting to grow their presence in Canada and with 5 sports reporters on the show nobody even mentioned a word about a possibility of new pro Cdn soccer league. Could it be possible that not one had an idea about the CPL? I found it strange and disappointing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Is it possible that we are we overrating the "optics" of having b teams in there?  Outside of the hardcore bubble on here are most people not going just to be interested in that soccer will be played in their community?  If the league and clubs sells the experience of supporter culture, what they saw in the MLS playoff this year in Montreal and Toronto, could that be enough?

I know this might not be popular but we seem to overanalyze things to the tune of 264 pages of posts and could this be another?  I'm not saying I want these teams in here because I don't but it may not be the death of the league before it starts as some predict.  Things aren't always just black or white (or duck/rabbit season).  There can be grey.

 

While you create exceptions, most casual soccer fans already think MLS is lowly trash compared to EPL or La Liga, having its b-teams could result in your league being labelled "the shit league". Unlike the USL, the CPL lacks any history to counter this labelling. It's hard to create the TFCvImpact vibes when people think it's a shit league.

That said, I agree MLS b-teams are not a total death blow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Is it possible that we are we overrating the "optics" of having b teams in there?  Outside of the hardcore bubble on here are most people not going just to be interested in that soccer will be played in their community?  If the league and clubs sells the experience of supporter culture, what they saw in the MLS playoff this year in Montreal and Toronto, could that be enough?

I know this might not be popular but we seem to overanalyze things to the tune of 264 pages of posts and could this be another?  I'm not saying I want these teams in here because I don't but it may not be the death of the league before it starts as some predict.  Things aren't always just black or white (or duck/rabbit season).  There can be grey.

 

I was just thinking what if this would facilitate a permanent move for TFC, Montreal Impact and VWC if for example CPL is in the long run more successful in Canada than the MLS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Diamondium said:

I would argue that those optics are more important for casual fans than the hardcores. Hardcore fans will support the team no matter what status the league has. New fans would look at a league and if it looks minor league, they lose interest fast. A lot of these communities will already have other competition going on, whether it is NHL, CHL, CFL, or minor league sports themselves. If you want to gain a casual's interest, they'll be much more peaked hearing that their city is getting a team in Canada's top league than if they hear that a new minor league soccer team is coming to their city. Casual fans won't notice the difference between minor and major league on the pitch, they will notice the difference in the presentation.

 

I agree it wouldn't be a league killer, but I do think it would have a pretty notable impact on the general population's outlook on the league.

I get that but it's not like the league is going to be filled with recognizable names that are going to speak to casual fan.  There isn't a David Beckham that's going to bring people in.  The more I think about it, I believe that the league is going to be sold on the live atmosphere that people see on TV and want to experience it.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Edmonton are once again reviving the idea of building a soccer specific stadium. This leads me to believe that the Edmonton Oilers are probably the real investors of the Edmonton CPL team. No one deals with this type of ca$h unless it's the Oilers. I could be wrong.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/02/09/dan-barnes-mid-sized-stadium-in-edmonton-could-be-back-on-the-table

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

First bit appears to be the case, second bit isn't as open and shut as some think, in my opinion. Has the presence of MLS B teams made it impossible for FC Cincinnati to draw large crowds? It will be interesting to watch what unfolds in Ottawa this summer and how the soccer community there responds to having an affiliate rather than an independent club and whether they show up in numbers to watch visiting sides like TFC II.

Nobody in Cincinnati cares about who they are playing against right now, it's all about pushing for MLS. Same goes for Sacramento and San Antonio. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...