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4 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

I agree there are enough Nickel Percenters to maintain the CFL, however to compare this to the CFL is completely wrong, and as of right now, based on the partial info we all know is its incomparable.

 

Why? How? 

 

The great thing about the CFL is that it has only one (two in AB and ON) professional throwball team(s) in every province on the mainlands. Meaning there is no alternative option provided to see a game live or be apart of a culture outside of whats available. Also the CFL is a completely different product than the NFL, never mind the obvious quality difference.

Based on the info we have received is that the obvious TFC, IMFC, VWFC, and FCE will not be involved in the Canadian Premier League. However there has been mentions of teams still residing in these cities which would inevitably create an unrealistic competition against the MLS teams for fans, marketing presence, tv time, which all equals to the income of dollars.

 

If the CFL is the blueprint then we will have 6-8 teams across the mainlands of Canada from Hamilton, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Calgary, Saskatchewan, and Edmonton  - all successful CFL franchises in terms of attendance, however I dont know where the rest are coming from. And what about the major TV markets? I think its a hope and pray to expect people from Toronto, Vancouver, never mind Montreal to watch these games on TV. MLS TV numbers speak for themselves.

Well...Saskatoon and Regina, also Quebec City, Halifax, London and Victoria are some, but apart from that, at least in Toronto I know a LOT of TFC fans who are sick of the rising ticket prices and poor management and performance of the team and would consider jumping ship and you also have some separation with Mississauga vs TO proper. Plus you have the possibility of US border teams becoming visitors in our league. Keep in mind, if this is to be NASL grade, you only need around 3-4 thousand to be viable and 5,000 or more to be successful.

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So reading what I see on Twitter (from Duane R and others) is the speculation is that it's Hamilton, Calgary, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Regina and either Montreal or Quebec City.  No Edmonton, Vancouver or Toronto at the moment.

Also wage cap of about 1.5 million CAD and 75% Canadian content.  So that's 108 Canadian positions at an average of 62,500 per player.  That's  not a bad starting spot for a league.

 

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1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

So reading what I see on Twitter (from Duane R and others) is the speculation is that it's Hamilton, Calgary, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Regina and either Montreal or Quebec City.  No Edmonton, Vancouver or Toronto at the moment.

Also wage cap of about 1.5 million CAD and 75% Canadian content.  So that's 108 Canadian positions at an average of 62,500 per player.  That's  not a bad starting spot for a league.

 

I like the league like that by then without the big 3 media cities in Canada, can the league survive even 1 year??  The TV contract if it there is one, won't work enough to cover there costs. I really hope it survives and the owners are willing to toughen it out in this tough economic climate, let alone that the paying public could be in the low thousands.  I'm all for more Canadian but the Canadian league dream has been shot or died in flames many times.

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If the Quebec team is in Montreal and not Quebec City to would help a lot.  That would at least give the 2nd largest media market.  You can live without Vancouver with the other markets but Montreal and Toronto are essential I think.

Its my hope that Edmonton would come around quickly too, but we keep hearing the Fath's are committed to the NASL.  Unfortunately they don't see that the tide has turned against NASL. 

One thing is for sure- the V-Cup would be a major tournament with 10 teams including every major media market in Canada.  I don't know how you organize a 10 team tourney without a group stage and the MLS teams wouldn't want to commit to a potential 12 game tournament that a group stage would require.

 

Edited by baulderdash77
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Shout out to Duane Rollins and Kevin Laramee for covering this since day 1. Thank you TiCats for backing this league and putting money up to start a team. I will always support the CPL until I die. Finally a place for up and coming footballers to achieve their dreams of becoming professionals! I went to Ottawa to watch the semi final vs Minnesota and I was impressed how the red blacks and fury go hand in hand in sharing the stadium. Our country needs these type of partnerships and backing to set up the CPL. A tv deal with a Canadian broadcasting company and a old money retailer like Canadian tire will help the league financially. It will give our kids the sponsorship they need to succeed as a footballer and help out low income families with athectically gifted children. Here's hoping to a CPL dedicated podcast from SPN

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All but confirmed in an article from the Hamilton Spectator. Bob Young, as initially reported a few years ago, will be a main player and the league's FO will be located in Hamilton. 6-8 teams will be founding clubs in the league, so the minimum 8 number has clearly been loosened. Not much else new was revealed outside of an expected announcement in 4-6 months as reported in this article. CSA cited as being "main partner" in the league so it appears it will be operated similarly as to the Premier League's relationship to the English FA is. Here's a link to the article: http://m.thespec.com/news-story/6261090-pro-soccer-team-for-city-would-see-winter-dome-at-ticat-field 

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2 hours ago, matty said:

God I hope it's 8 teams and not 6 but damnit if it has to be 6 then it has to be 6.

I'm guessing Hamilton, Ottawa, Regina, Winnipeg, Calgary and Toronto if 6 and Vancouver and Montreal if 8.

Don't think Vancouver would happen anytime soon.  First and foremost there is nowhere to play.  The Caps got rejected by multiple municipalities when looking for a USL home (including their former stadium Swangard); which is why they had to put it out where their training center is, in a location that is too far for the majority of the region.

I suppose one of the municipalities could have a change of heart; Surrey was open to the idea at one point (with the Caps) until a mayoral candidate used it in an attempt to hijack the last election so Surrey quietly stopped talking about it. New West said no, Coquitlam said no, and Burnaby said no for Swangard.  However, that Burnaby issue was the mayor more than anything so that stadium could be back in play if he ever gets voted out.  I would think if it was, the Caps would take it in a second for their USL club to keep a competitor away from Vancouver.

I think they need to get this off the ground outside of MLS markets.  If they draw poorly or have to move a club or two with in their first 2 seasons the PR will be bad for the league.  This league may not be taken seriously by the general or casual fan out there and things like that would make it worse.

My other concern is are these owners willing to take losses for the first 3 - 5 years to get this off the ground.  I hope they get that level of commitment because if they are wanting 40k or higher salaries per player, and academies, they will be running losses for a while.   TV money won't come in anything viable for a while and who knows what the attendances will be.  NASL Edmonton can't crack 3000 on some nights, so a lower level league in smaller cities will have a more difficult challenge.

This needs a 5 year minimum commitment from ownership groups and the willpower to eat losses during that time.  I would hate to see some owner flake out after year 1 when they find out they lost a million dollars.  The owner in Edmonton has lost a few million so far and he keeps going out of commitment to the game.  This will be needed league wide.

  This isn't on the scale of MLS of course, but they lost hundreds of millions until the Beckham arrival and expansion demand.  They had a couple of wealthy men who were committed and kept the league going.  CPL would need something like that too so I hope this is being vetted when awarding clubs.

 

 

PS - somehow they have to get the name away from that match fixing league, even if they have to buy the rights to the name and retire the name.  "Canadian Soccer League" will sound like this new league when casual people are reading the papers.  I fear some will equate the match fixing stories with this new Premier league.  And I hate how a regional league in Ontario took the name of a memorable attempt at a national league in Canada that many of us have fond memories about.

 

Edited by amanfromvancouver
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44 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

This needs a 5 year minimum commitment from ownership groups and the willpower to eat losses during that time.  I would hate to see some owner flake out after year 1 when they find out they lost a million dollars.  The owner in Edmonton has lost a few million so far and he keeps going out of commitment to the game.  This will be needed league wide.

Could be for much longer. If you want to make money, there's better investments than pro soccer. I don't think that really matters. But I agree that they should do everything to prevent teams from folding (at least the first 5 years or so) because it will have a negative influence on the perception of this league (even here on this forum you got people saying, it will never work). 

If you are talking about FC Edmonton, don't forget that they make money every time a new team enters the league. This is the business model for MLS as well. Plus maybe they get some kind of tax reduction for investing in sports in Alberta?

52 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

PS - somehow they have to get the name away from that match fixing league, even if they have to buy the rights to the name and retire the name.  "Canadian Soccer League" will sound like this new league when casual people are reading the papers.  I fear some will equate the match fixing stories with this new Premier league.  And I hate how a regional league in Ontario took the name of a memorable attempt at a national league in Canada that many of us have fond memories about.

I think you're making a good point here. Don't know if it's possible, but can't they take away the "Canadian", 'cause it's not sanctioned, nor pan-Canadian?

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I would be pleasantly surprised and consider it unlikely for many reasons, but Victoria is not an out of question option, if Vancouver isn't possible. Kelowna as well. 

Victoria has a nice climate for football that usually lends well to attendance. It also has a history of being a viable option for a minor professional baseball team in BC. There was that one all Canadian baseball league that lasted a year and they were by far the most successful. 

I can hope. 

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2 hours ago, amanfromvancouver said:

Don't think Vancouver would happen anytime soon.  First and foremost there is nowhere to play.  The Caps got rejected by multiple municipalities when looking for a USL home (including their former stadium Swangard); which is why they had to put it out where their training center is, in a location that is too far for the majority of the region.

I recall some of Rollins reports listing it as one of the original 8 cities and another suggesting the CSA and various owners felt the Vancouver market was one of the two musts for the league, the other being Toronto. It always stuck me as odd given everything you listed but I'm going to give Rollins the benefit of the doubt.

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9 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

One thing is for sure- the V-Cup would be a major tournament with 10 teams including every major media market in Canada.  I don't know how you organize a 10 team tourney without a group stage and the MLS teams wouldn't want to commit to a potential 12 game tournament that a group stage would require.

 

Here's how I'd do it (assuming 3MLS + 6CPL + 1NASL, seeded in that order):

Round 1 (Play in / qualification); Preferably home & away, top team hosts if not:
Match 1: 1NASL vs 4CPL
Match 2: 5CPL vs 6CPL

Round 2: Single elimination bracket, home & away, starting with:
MLS1 vs Winner Match 1
MLS2 vs Winner Match 2
MLS3 vs CPL3
CPL1 vs CPL2

This means each team has to play a maximum of eight games (seven if the first round isn't home & away).

And honestly, if the MLS teams don't want to play an extra few games, then I guess they don't get to qualify for the CCL.

Edited by grande
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That format is actually workable.  The MLS teams get a max of 6 games, same as the current format and the 3 lower CPL teams and Edmonton get 8 max games.

I also like that as the only D2 team in Canada, Edmonton is always lower seeded.  FC Edmonton's position will eventually become untenable and after a few years I'm sure they'll be forced to the CPL.

 

 

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13 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

So reading what I see on Twitter (from Duane R and others) is the speculation is that it's Hamilton, Calgary, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Regina and either Montreal or Quebec City.  No Edmonton, Vancouver or Toronto at the moment.

Also wage cap of about 1.5 million CAD and 75% Canadian content.  So that's 108 Canadian positions at an average of 62,500 per player.  That's  not a bad starting spot for a league.

 

I feel like they should have a minimum salary around 5-10% higher than what MLS is offering, which would make it more desirable to the young Canadians sitting on an MLS bench. The wages for a team will not be outlandish because you're not dealing with any DP salary or players being there only for the money. Average of $62.5K, they'd only have to bump it up a little to get the min at $66K (MLS +5%)

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1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

That format is actually workable.  The MLS teams get a max of 6 games, same as the current format and the 3 lower CPL teams and Edmonton get 8 max games.

I also like that as the only D2 team in Canada, Edmonton is always lower seeded.  FC Edmonton's position will eventually become untenable and after a few years I'm sure they'll be forced to the CPL.

 

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. This way, the V-Cup would make it clear the NASL is lower than the CPL in the pyramid (even if they're doing better on field for the first couple years), and it rewards the top half of the CPL for finishing well by letting them avoid the qualification round.

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I think people need to appreciate the owners we know

Hamilton:

Bob Young himself has a net worth of 700 million dollars

Calgary::

  • N. Murray Edwards $1.75B billion
  • Allen Markin, $670 million
  • Alvin Libin, $145 million
  • Byron Seaman wealthy can't find a figure
  • Clay Riddell $3.4B
  • Jeff McCaig runs trimac trucking which is a $400 million dollar a year company.

Winnipeg (Speculation)

The Asper Family valued at $833 million

These type of owners could carry the league by themselves.  If these are the type of owners in every market, they will be able to forgo initial profits for the first 10 years.  All of the owners listed above blow NASL ownership requirements out of the water. 

Case in point, if you win the lottery this weekend of $60,000,000 you would still have to find partners.

Edited by DigzTFC
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15 minutes ago, Dub Narcotic said:

That's not true, the main opposition to the New West proposal came from the wealthy neighbourhood surrounding the proposed stadium and the New West baseball club who didn't want to lose their facility.  

Sure it's true. There was opposition from the baseball community but the ultimate sticking point was the public financing; its scale and the lack of information on or discussion about the project before the bill came in. The New Westminster council meetings are online, if you'd like to watch it.

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1 hour ago, Benjamin Massey said:

New West didn't say no to the Whitecaps, they said no to giving the Whitecaps a massive subsidy.

If a Vancouver team was willing to pay its own way rather than rely on the taxpayer, things might be different.

I am not so sure about that. The noisy opposition to changing the use of the stadium seemed to turn away the city more so than the cost.  However, if you are correct in your interpretation, then perhaps something could happe.

Hey, if the only reason was the Caps were cheap, then that option certainly opens up again. That just wasn't my interpretation and I felt that even if the Caps paid for everything it would have been rejected.  It is a great location if it were ever to come about.

Edited by amanfromvancouver
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5 minutes ago, amanfromvancouver said:

I am not so sure about that. The noisy opposition to changing the use of the stadium seemed to turn away the city more so than the cost.  However, if you are correct in your interpretation, then perhaps something could happe.

Hey, if the only reason was the Caps were cheap, then that option certainly opens up again. That just wasn't my interpretation and I felt that even if the Caps paid for everything it would have been rejected.  It is a great location if it were ever to come about.

I followed this fairly closely at the time. Like I said to DN, there was a definite NIMBY element, and definitely members of the baseball community worried about getting frozen out. But they seemed like they were being managed, so to speak, and public support was reasonably strong, until the bill got put before the New Westminster council and they got an estimate of $11.4 million in public money for this MLS reserve team. That killed it stone dead. There had been absolutely no estimate of the costs before that meeting, and the council was moving forward, then they saw it would be eight digits and that was the end.

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