Canadian Premier League

[Futballer]

2 hours ago, matty said:

@Futballer does your plan account for tv?

The plan includes a television deal most definitely, we also knew that selling the Plan to Canadian television companies would be difficult .So we tried a few external companies, Bein Sports, and a few others, 

To be successful we do not  need a television  partner at Launch, as it stands at the moment Canadian sports Companies does not want to buy in for the asking price, as the forum has discussed previously. 

Companies we spoke with would like to wait until Season 1 is complete, they were all advised that the buy in cost would increase, as the CPL audience would also be above the projection tabled. T.V deal is a wait and see. 

 

 

[Alex D]

Is your group the one that is alligned with the CFL or the alternate group?

[matty]

44 minutes ago, Futballer said:

The plan includes a television deal most definitely, we also knew that selling the Plan to Canadian television companies would be difficult .So we tried a few external companies, Bein Sports, and a few others, 

To be successful we do not  need a television  partner at Launch, as it stands at the moment Canadian sports Companies does not want to buy in for the asking price, as the forum has discussed previously. 

Companies we spoke with would like to wait until Season 1 is complete, they were all advised that the buy in cost would increase, as the CPL audience would also be above the projection tabled. T.V deal is a wait and see. 

 

 

So TLN it is!

But seriously bless that channel. They've been there for the CSA before when no one else was game and if they're there now to help this they'll be heroes forever to the Canadian soccer community. The CPL would be able to get away with drawing 20k a game and be given the room to grow there.

[rob.notenboom]

@Futballer when was the last time you actually had direct input into anything being planned by the current CanPL people? If you concocted your plan and shared it with others in 2013 for example, but haven't really had any meaningful contact with them since, I'm not sure how you can attest to anything that they're planning regardless of what your initial assumptions found and what you planned in response to those assumptions. If you have been either given updates about the progress or have consulted with people involved, that is something different entirely of course. I thought it was pretty clearly established many pages ago that you were not at all current with what was being planned or discussed, but perhaps I misread. 

[matty]

2 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said:

@Futballer when was the last time you actually had direct input into anything being planned by the current CanPL people? If you concocted your plan and shared it with others in 2013 for example, but haven't really had any meaningful contact with them since, I'm not sure how you can attest to anything that they're planning regardless of what your initial assumptions found and what you planned in response to those assumptions. If you have been either given updates about the progress or have consulted with people involved, that is something different entirely of course. I thought it was pretty clearly established many pages ago that you were not at all current with what was being planned or discussed, but perhaps I misread. 

he claimed he was on the outside of this current plan but presented his groups idea prior to this current plan popping up. if i recall correctly they "stole" his plan or something along those lines

[CDNFootballer]

17 hours ago, matty said:

I'm gonna cover the most likely ones

Tickets = I picture a deal of at least $1-200 for a season pass, saying this based on TFC2's 2015 pass and the Toronto Wolfpack's current pass. If the season has only 10 home games I could very easily see this happening.

TV deal = I picture the deal being worth much less than both the MLS and CFL deals (CFL's is worth $40m a year, no idea on MLS). I picture this being a "we'll give you TV time for free" situation where they get a game of the week from someone or a small payment deal from TLN for all the games (decided to ask Dave Meltzer how much TLN is paying for Lucha Underground because I feel it's applicable here). CPL teams will likely have to pay for the broadcast.

Shirt sponsors = I'm hopeful the league let's teams reach out and get their own sponsors. Hoping shirt deals are for $500k a year at least

Short Sponsor = Should I ask John Green what he gives Wimbledon? He seems like he'd answer

For a TV Deal the CPL may have to initially settle for revenue sharing like some of last years NASL national TV deals apparently were with CBS and Bein Sports.

 

Shirt sponsors in NASL for Indy and New York Cosmos are 1 million per year but some of the other teams were 600K+ so CPL starting with 500K would be a good start.

 

 

[CDNFootballer]

2 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

-Lower mainland? Pretty sure it's just Swangard currently. 

-Other markets with a "Swangard level stadium", if we are just talking ballpark capacity, are Quebec City, Montreal, St. John's, London, Moncton, and Saskatoon, though I'm certain many of those would need amenity upgrades to be considered Lamport level. Besides those, there are a ton of ~5000 seat stadiums out there that would be an extra stand away from being at a reasonable capacity 

Other than Swangard the only other option would be Town Center Stadium (or Percy Perry Stadium) in the Coquitlam suburb of Vancouver. They down scaled the seating years ago to about 1500 but it previously had 4200 seats and could be retrofitted/upgraded again with more seating and upgrades to maybe 6-8K.

 

Surrey would be a good location for a Metro Vancouver club and land should be available for a modular stadium for a few years before a permanent stadium could be built. Surrey has spoken for years of building a 10K stadium.

[An Observer]

Just more speculation on my part, but if people think Hamilton, Calgary, Regina and Winnipeg are likely "locks" with Ottawa likely, don't discount Montreal/Quebec as the 6th as the Alouettes owner Bob Wetenhall seems to have been involved in the old NASL based on his Wikipedia profile.  Not sure Montreal could support two soccer teams but he has a great facility in a good location in Molson Stadium that he may think gives them a competitive advantage over the Impact or he could put a team in Quebec City and still benefit from the use of the head office Montreal for the Alouettes as I believe they are marketed somewhat province wide anyway.

Also, the MLSE could theoretically be the 6th side as we know they want to be involved and 2/3s of their ownership owns the Argos.  To a certain extent, I hope not as we don't want an MLS "B" side in the league (and now BBTB will go on a rant about that) and if they are involved, it closes the GTA to a CPL side as either it will be a "B" side of TFC so won't want to compete or if they put their "B" side elsewhere like the rumoured London, they will likely block any attempt at an independent CPL side entering their MLS market.  These things would need to be agreed up front by the league if MLSE does come in as of all the MLS markets, I have the most hope of Toronto supporting a CPL side as its by far the largest and has the largest soccer fan base and talent by far of any city in Canada.

[Complete Homer]

3 hours ago, An Observer said:

Just more speculation on my part, but if people think Hamilton, Calgary, Regina and Winnipeg are likely "locks" with Ottawa likely, don't discount Montreal/Quebec as the 6th as the Alouettes owner Bob Wetenhall seems to have been involved in the old NASL based on his Wikipedia profile.  Not sure Montreal could support two soccer teams but he has a great facility in a good location in Molson Stadium that he may think gives them a competitive advantage over the Impact or he could put a team in Quebec City and still benefit from the use of the head office Montreal for the Alouettes as I believe they are marketed somewhat province wide anyway.

Also, the MLSE could theoretically be the 6th side as we know they want to be involved and 2/3s of their ownership owns the Argos.  To a certain extent, I hope not as we don't want an MLS "B" side in the league (and now BBTB will go on a rant about that) and if they are involved, it closes the GTA to a CPL side as either it will be a "B" side of TFC so won't want to compete or if they put their "B" side elsewhere like the rumoured London, they will likely block any attempt at an independent CPL side entering their MLS market.  These things would need to be agreed up front by the league if MLSE does come in as of all the MLS markets, I have the most hope of Toronto supporting a CPL side as its by far the largest and has the largest soccer fan base and talent by far of any city in Canada.

That's interesting, I pegged the Alouettes owner as a straight old school football guy. Guess another reminder to not take a gridiron fan for granted 

As for TFC, who knows at this point. I'd heard it was dead but that is old info by now, always possible something may have come out of the Mitchell/Manning meeting 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

12 hours ago, lazlo_80 said:

So just out of boredom could we possibly deduce what markets are looking for a team based on places that would require a lamport level stadium?

id figure Hamilton, sask, Winnipeg, Calgary to play in existing CFL facilities. 

Does KW have a lamport level facility? Does the Laurier stadium qualify?

another lower mainland stadium? Halifax? GTA suburb?

1. Hamilton we know are involved and have a stadium (CFL owners)

2. Halifax we know are gung ho and have a stadium plan

3. K/W we now know with reasonable confidence want to be in and Waterloo has a Lamport scale CIS stadium

4. Ottawa have made public statements about looking at it if it emerges and have a stadium (CFL owners)

5. TFC we know want to be in and could get a stadium sorted out (2/3rds overlap with Argos owners)

beyond that is a mix of speculation and/or wishful thinking

6. GTA suburbs keep getting mentioned --- York U?

7/8. Duane Rollins specifically mentioned the Calgary + Winnipeg CFL owners on a recent podcast but not Sask and Edmonton --- no stadium issue

9. FC London has been mentioned in dispatches a couple of times ---Western?

(7.?) Shermanator says he heard Calgary Foothills talk about it at a soccer meeting --- not clear what the stadium solution would be

and we are told 12 communities have expressed an interest of some sort, which means at least three more not already listed, which could realistically be any of Victoria, Vancouver suburbs, Edmonton, Regina, Montreal suburbs, Quebec City and Moncton

and finally:

 

[matty]

8 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

1. Hamilton we know are involved and have a stadium (CFL owners)

2. Halifax we know are gung ho and have a stadium plan

3. K/W we now know with reasonable confidence want to be in and Waterloo has a Lamport scale CIS stadium

4. Ottawa have made public statements about looking at it if it emerges and have a stadium (CFL owners)

5. TFC we know want to be in and could get a stadium sorted out (2/3rds overlap with Argos owners)

beyond that is a mix of speculation and/or wishful thinking

6. GTA suburbs keep getting mentioned --- York U?

7/8. Duane Rollins specifically mentioned the Calgary + Winnipeg CFL owners on a recent podcast but not Sask and Edmonton --- no stadium issue

9. FC London has been mentioned in dispatches a couple of times ---Western?

(7.?) Shermanator says he heard Calgary Foothills talk about it at a soccer meeting --- not clear what the stadium solution would be

and we are told 12 communities have expressed an interest of some sort, which means at least three more not already listed, which could realistically be any of Victoria, Vancouver suburbs, Edmonton, Regina, Montreal suburbs, Quebec City and Moncton

and finally:

 

I wouldn't make too big a deal of the 12 cities Totz mentioned. But since we are, here are a few notes.

OFFC are a weird dark horse at this stage. Seems 40/60 for them or FCE to join.

RR we've heard before might not be involved with the Regina team.

Toronto has someone outside of MLSE that's interested, reports claim. Likely the GTA gets the team instead of Toronto

TFC and now VWFC moves seem to be a power play, that would kill any chance the CPL has at the mainstream, and the CPL owners don't seem to want it while the CSA wants everyone to play nice and work it out without fissy hits.

Oddly the KW movement seems dependant on a partnership, possibly with European team.

I'd put Victoria over London as we know the city had NASL ambitions as recently as 2014. Same goes for QC where it seems the league wants to be.

[MrSabiondo]

@Futballer

Hey do you own those canadianpremierleague.ca domains?  And how much coin are you looking to make?

[Cheeta]

Re;. MLS owner involvement, or the potential.

1st, have it in my head that MLS has a non-compete by law.  MLS owners aren't allowed to hold ownings in competitive footie leagues within MLS's catchment.  CPL franchises would fall into that no?

2nd, BAD idea letting MLS buy in.  Shouldn't need to be explained why.  I know monied partners are slim but BAD idea.  Avoid the temptation.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

It all boils down to what the CSA are actually willing to sanction at this point. From the point of view of a national association the sensible thing is usually to try to get everybody within the system pushing in the same direction. The announcement of Generation Adidas Canada late last year and the move to identify suitable youth clubs beyond the three MLS academies for domestic player eligibility was a sign that the CSA now view MLS as being at the top of the player development pathway in domestic terms. If American MLS teams have the D2 level USL for their affiliate/reserve teams, there's no obvious reason why the Canadian MLS teams couldn't have a D2 domestic Canadian league for something similar beneath a shared D1. Think CPL would have been sanctioned in December as Duane Rollins was predicting at the time, we wouldn't have been seeing tweets from the Ticats CEO from the MLS player combine and MLSE wouldn't be talking to him about the new league at this point, if the plan was still to have a new "D1A". Time will tell obviously

[Levi Oakey]

21 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

-KW has University Stadium, a 6000 seat turf stadium, Warrior Field (5000), and GuelphU's stadium (7600) as options. I've also heard that the KW bid for the Canada Games is including a 10k soccer stadium, but I don't know if that is finalized or public

Further to this, Guelph had a temporary stand for 13000 while Tim Horton's field was being built and the Ti-Cats came to play in Guelph. University stadium could easily add more stands. I can't find specific examples of it at University Stadium but when Sporting Lisbon came to play United, we essentially made a 3k temporary stadium around an old field at Budd park. With the University grand stand being only on one side, I wouldn't imagine it being too difficult to add a similar amount to the existing stadium.

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The announcement of Generation Adidas Canada late last year and the move to identify suitable youth clubs beyond the three MLS academies for domestic player eligibility was a sign that the CSA now view MLS as being at the top of the player development pathway in domestic terms.

Nope. It's call giving more options to our players which is smart. We are already in bed with the USSF and the CSA did it's job to try and improve their condition within the USSF. You're just making assumptions. Extra choices is not a bad thing to have.

4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

If American MLS teams have the D2 level USL for their affiliate/reserve teams, there's no obvious reason why the Canadian teams couldn't have a D2 domestic Canadian league for something similar.

Then MLS Clubs should work with the CPL and CSA to set up a proper D2 league in Canada, not trying to poison CPL with their reserve team because they can't handle a little competition

5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Think CPL would have been sanctioned in December as Duane Rollins was predicting at the time, we wouldn't have been seeing tweets from the Ticats CEO from the MLS player combine and MLSE wouldn't be talking to him about the new league at this point, if the plan was still to have a new "D1A". Time will tell obviously

You're stretching again, that doesn't mean anything. Seriously BBTB

 

[Rheo]

I don't know why this is even an issue.  CPL will be division one in Canada but MLS will exist with a Canadian presence.  MLS also be a better league for the foreseeable future.  They each have their own place in the Canadian pyramid.  The can co-exist beside each other and I believe they will.  This isn't Highlander and there can be only one.  There can be a middle ground here folks.

[dyslexic nam]

Rabbit season.

[Rheo]

6 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Rabbit season.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I had a similar post to my last one a couple of months ago (except for the Highlander reference)

In other news, listened to the From The Black Hole pod, (after getting the feed link from since my player didn't have it up to date, public thanks on here).  Really interesting stuff on the CPL which has been discussed here.  But really loved the how I became a Supporter stories at the beginning.  I find it fun to here other's tales and compare it to my own.

[rob.notenboom]

1 hour ago, Rheo said:

Yeah I'm pretty sure I had a similar post to my last one a couple of months ago (except for the Highlander reference)

In other news, listened to the From The Black Hole pod, (after getting the feed link from since my player didn't have it up to date, public thanks on here).  Really interesting stuff on the CPL which has been discussed here.  But really loved the how I became a Supporter stories at the beginning.  I find it fun to here other's tales and compare it to my own.

Thanks for listening. Glad to hear people find value in what we do from time to time. 

We actually did a full 'How did you become a supporter?' podcast ages ago with a bunch of long time Voyageurs that we know. I'm with you ... I really enjoy hearing people's stories of how they get into soccer fandom (or professional playing, coaching, or e business side for that matter). 

[matty]

Bbtb why the fuck would owners waste time announcing "we've been sanctioned" when they are not ready to go instead of waiting and announcing "we are a fucking go"?

[grasshopper1917]

1 hour ago, matty said:

Bbtb why the fuck would owners waste time announcing "we've been sanctioned" when they are not ready to go instead of waiting and announcing "we are a fucking go"?

I guess I don't 100% understand:

1) What would it really matter if the CSA sanctioned or did not sanction the CPL?

2) How could the CSA not sanction a quality professional league operating in Canada.

3) Why are people worried if CSA will declare the D1 or D2? At the end of the day 99.9% of people will view for what it is a tier below MLS. There is nothing wrong with that. If we come to terms with what we will be it will give us room to grow and flourish. 

[Complete Homer]

18 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

I guess I don't 100% understand:

1) What would it really matter if the CSA sanctioned or did not sanction the CPL?

2) How could the CSA not sanction a quality professional league operating in Canada.

3) Why are people worried if CSA will declare the D1 or D2? At the end of the day 99.9% of people will view for what it is a tier below MLS. There is nothing wrong with that. If we come to terms with what we will be it will give us room to grow and flourish. 

1) Definitely. Playing in an unsanctioned league restricts you from participating in any FIFA games, removes the CSA's ability to enforce standards, etc.

2) It wouldn't. It might try to leverage for more CanCon or higher facility standards, for examples, but everyone knows they are not in a position to deny sanctioning to a legitimate league.

3) I think it matters for marketing. If it is D2, the one sentence explanation of CPL is "Minor league Canadian soccer", which hurts the potential fanbase significantly. Even though the quality will be below MLS, making sure the easiest narrative is not the most negative one is key. Everyone actually well informed knows it will be below MLS, but people who are well informed are already people who are in the hardcore or the periphery of the hardcore, and are better bets than most to become CPL fans

Besides, I think it is justifiable to call CPL D1 regardless of MLS quality...I don't think any country in the world would call three teams a "Division" within their pyramid. They aren't a tier, they are an anomaly. That's not an anti-MLS stance, I was in the stands cheering for TFC with everyone else, I just find it unjustifiable to say that your top tier consists of 3 teams when there is a true national league.

[grasshopper1917]

28 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

1) Definitely. Playing in an unsanctioned league restricts you from participating in any FIFA games, removes the CSA's ability to enforce standards, etc.

2) It wouldn't. It might try to leverage for more CanCon or higher facility standards, for examples, but everyone knows they are not in a position to deny sanctioning to a legitimate league.

3) I think it matters for marketing. If it is D2, the one sentence explanation of CPL is "Minor league Canadian soccer", which hurts the potential fanbase significantly. Even though the quality will be below MLS, making sure the easiest narrative is not the most negative one is key. Everyone actually well informed knows it will be below MLS, but people who are well informed are already people who are in the hardcore or the periphery of the hardcore, and are better bets than most to become CPL fans

Besides, I think it is justifiable to call CPL D1 regardless of MLS quality...I don't think any country in the world would call three teams a "Division" within their pyramid. They aren't a tier, they are an anomaly. That's not an anti-MLS stance, I was in the stands cheering for TFC with everyone else, I just find it unjustifiable to say that your top tier consists of 3 teams when there is a true national league.

Makes sense - thanks!

[Futballer]

2 hours ago, matty said:

Bbtb why the fuck would owners waste time announcing "we've been sanctioned" when they are not ready to go instead of waiting and announcing "we are a fucking go"?

Sanctioning is most important at the moment, as it start the ball rolling on the promotional front in each franchised city. 

Let me take out my Futsal Ball (Crystal ball) and say that the announcement will most likely be after the our U 20 men`s team  complete their World cup quest. Many of these Canadian Players and others from other Countries will be scouted  for contracts with  CPL  teams to start their rosters.