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The way some of these modular stadiums are built is very interesting.  I saw one where they had and even 20 seats per row and 15 rows per section.  Stack up 10 of them on each side and it's a nice neat 6,000 seat stadium with open ends.  Put some beer gardens and social viewing areas in the ends and it can be a good looking stadium for <5 million dollars.  

Bonney Field is a similar modular field with 11,000 seats for 3 million USD.  Not a lot of bells and whistles but a good fan experience by all accounts.  The big think is to make sure the stadium is full and size it accordingly.

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11 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Don't think it takes FC Edmonton multiple millions per year to have the "big blue" seating in place that is needed to make Clarke Stadium compatable with USSF D2 sanctioning standards, so think you are hugely overestimating what is likely to be involved in expense terms on that:

1280px-Clarke_Stadium.jpg

I actually see a smallish (when compared to Tim Horton Field in Hamilton) temporary seating type stadium in Halifax as being consistent with a format that welcomes rather than excludes smaller markets that have university football stadia in the 6-12k sort of range, such as London, K/W, and Quebec City (plus suburban GTA when York University is factored in) and that makes me more rather than less upbeat that something could actually happen on this, as long as they don't get carried away on what their anticipated break even should be.

You're saving face hard. Hard like a South American country declaring war on Germany in 1945. 

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On ‎2017‎-‎01‎-‎29 at 10:33 AM, MtlMario said:

Taking the Cdn teams from the NHL and leave the US teams (whichever will survive) to have their own league. Ah one could only dream!!

7 Canadian clubs accounts for over 33% of overall revenues, most of the viewership and the TV contract is double the American contract at $5.2B...who was founded in.... MONTREAL,QC in 1917.

Gary Bettman stole our league in the 90s and moved headquarters to NY from Toronto...

An all Canadian league would beat an all American league business wise.

End of off topic rant

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I'm going off topic here but I'd love to see a Pre-season tournament set up in Fort McMurray. Say 4-6 teams select, maybe an invite from another league.

No distractions up here, nice new facility that is MacDonald Island Shell Place, and they still have the Wood Buffalo Cup to offer the champions.

 

Just day dreaming, wont happen.

Shell Place.jpg

Wood Buffalo Cup.jpg

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2 hours ago, Steedman said:

I'm going off topic here but I'd love to see a Pre-season tournament set up in Fort McMurray. Say 4-6 teams select, maybe an invite from another league.

No distractions up here, nice new facility that is MacDonald Island Shell Place, and they still have the Wood Buffalo Cup to offer the champions.

 

Just day dreaming, wont happen.

Shell Place.jpg

Wood Buffalo Cup.jpg

Am I seeing this right? Looks like there is a really cool roof, over top of nothing, and nothing over top of the seating.

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http://www.985sports.ca/soccer/nouvelles/700-000-pour-acheter-oyongo-819159.html

Defensemen Ambroise Oyongo  is getting interest from the French league Montpellier and Dijon FC.

Dijon offered $700k to acquire him but Montreal are asking $2M. Oyongo earns only $75K a year. Montreal have to make a decision because his contract is up in 2017 and he will be free to leave the club with being compensated.

***I posted this here to break some "taboos" about salaries. Yes MLS have a high salary cap but the disparity in that league is huge. They overpay for DPs and Internationals past their prime most of the time and pay little for the rest, sometimes very good players.

Oyongo is regularly cap for Cameroun and yet, he gets only 75k a year. Again, for CPL, it comes down to invest in top scouting staff. That's how you save money in the long run. CPL can just as easily get their hands on internationals like Oyongo at that price and pay a Piatti at $426k annually as a DP who plays like a $7M man. Just have to find them through scouting.

Needless to say, it will be interesting to see what CPL club will do in that area...

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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

http://www.985sports.ca/soccer/nouvelles/700-000-pour-acheter-oyongo-819159.html

Defensemen Ambroise Oyongo  is getting interest from the French league Montpellier and Dijon FC.

Dijon offered $700k to acquire him but Montreal are asking $2M. Oyongo earns only $75K a year. Montreal have to make a decision because his contract is up in 2017 and he will be free to leave the club with being compensated.

***I posted this here to break some "taboos" about salaries. Yes MLS have a high salary cap but the disparity in that league is huge. They overpay for DPs and Internationals past their prime most of the time and pay little for the rest, sometimes very good players.

Oyongo is regularly cap for Cameroun and yet, he gets only 75k a year. Again, for CPL, it comes down to invest in top scouting staff. That's how you save money in the long run. CPL can just as easily get their hands on internationals like Oyongo at that price and pay a Piatti at $426k annually as a DP who plays like a $7M man. Just have to find them through scouting.

Needless to say, it will be interesting to see what CPL club will do in that area...

When it comes to dps they will likely overspend on past their prime talents originally. As much as we all like the lower cost dps like piatti, the past their prime vets with a big cv who draw.

Props for pointing out most players that start make under the $170k average which is only so high thanks to maybe 90guys

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On 1/29/2017 at 3:29 PM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

They seem to be using this to gauge whether there is a financial case for building something permanent, so doubt they would add all the fancy bells and whistles. Fairly basic "big blue" type seating down both sides would get them over 5k, which I suspect is significantly more than they would actually really need,* unfortunately.

I have respectfully disagree with you on this matter. Halifax currently has a junior hockey team in the Quebec junior league and they draw 7000 fans a game over 34 home dates (plus playoff and pre season). I think if a professional soccer team is marketed properly playing in a stable credible National league there is no reason they can not draw 50%-75% of what the junior hockey team draws. Which would put attendance at 3500-5000.

One advantage a CPL team would over Jr. hockey is Big city rivals.  Halifax vs Calgary, Edmonton, Hamilton should naturally be more of a draw then Halifax vs Rimouski, Val-dor, Bathurst ect...

Also the Soccer team would be the only professional outdoor team in the city playing roughly 10 home games starting out. Since there are only a limited number of games season tickets would be much more affordable and would not require as large a time commitment.

Finally Halifax has a massive student population (which should be a natural fan base), we also have multiple senior soccer teams in the city along with many youth clubs. As someone who lives in Halifax and feels the buzz about a new field and a team on the Wander ground I find it very very hard to believe 5000 seat is 'significantly more' then we need. In fact I feel there will be nights (if the club and league is done right) we will need more then 5000 seats. That is my view from a sports fan on the ground in Halifax who has lived here for over 10 years.

I think the key is having a credible stable league with proper marketing and solid franchises. Also have a credible ownership group in Halifax with proper local marketing. I have real confidence in the local bid for a team and their abilities of making the club a success. I have less confidence (at this point) in the ability of the people spearheading the formation this league and even less confidence in the CSA (I apologize I know this wont be a popular statement in these parts). 

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On 1/29/2017 at 10:56 AM, matty said:

Clarke's temp seating is a great deal smaller than the 8k they want in Halifax and, from what I've been told, likely costs upwards $750k a year, all things said and done. The plan for Halifax seems to be a COMPLETE temp stadium not just putting in bleachers.

FCE's Clarke stadium seating that was added cost $750k total, a one time cost, no per year costs. Fath purchased the big blue grandstand. Its not temp seating either but permanently affixed with concrete foundation.

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1 hour ago, CDNFootballer said:

FCE's Clarke stadium seating that was added cost $750k total, a one time cost, no per year costs. Fath purchased the big blue grandstand. Its not temp seating either but permanently affixed with concrete foundation.

Thanks for the info. Was under the impression it was temp

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So the league-wide shirt sponsorship thread got me thinking about what sorts of revenue streams the league might be looking at. Has anyone encountered reasonable numbers for what this could look like? Lots is pure speculation (ex. TV deal), but has anyone seen public numbers for reasonable CPL comparables for these items (such as Indy Eleven claiming to have a 1M per year shirt sponsor)? Obviously a long shot, but it seems like this sort of stuff is occassionaly reported when it is a good deal for a team

Merchandise

Ticket Sales

TV Deal

Shirt Sponsor (league-wide)

Major Shirt Sponsor

Minor Sponsor (Shorts?)

Other Sponsors "X Beer Garden"

Stadium naming rights (in Halifax's case)

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Also, not to read too much into anything, but I thought this was interesting

Richard Peddie (former MLSE CEO) "liked" that last tweet. Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it's an interesting person to be keeping close tabs on CPL. Probably just be a curious former employer being supportive of Bierne, but the guy has serious connections if he ever wanted to get involved with the CPL project.

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59 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

So the league-wide shirt sponsorship thread got me thinking about what sorts of revenue streams the league might be looking at. Has anyone encountered reasonable numbers for what this could look like? Lots is pure speculation (ex. TV deal), but has anyone seen public numbers for reasonable CPL comparables for these items (such as Indy Eleven claiming to have a 1M per year shirt sponsor)? Obviously a long shot, but it seems like this sort of stuff is occassionaly reported when it is a good deal for a team

Merchandise

Ticket Sales

TV Deal

Shirt Sponsor (league-wide)

Major Shirt Sponsor

Minor Sponsor (Shorts?)

Other Sponsors "X Beer Garden"

Stadium naming rights (in Halifax's case)

I'm gonna cover the most likely ones

Tickets = I picture a deal of at least $1-200 for a season pass, saying this based on TFC2's 2015 pass and the Toronto Wolfpack's current pass. If the season has only 10 home games I could very easily see this happening.

TV deal = I picture the deal being worth much less than both the MLS and CFL deals (CFL's is worth $40m a year, no idea on MLS). I picture this being a "we'll give you TV time for free" situation where they get a game of the week from someone or a small payment deal from TLN for all the games (decided to ask Dave Meltzer how much TLN is paying for Lucha Underground because I feel it's applicable here). CPL teams will likely have to pay for the broadcast.

Shirt sponsors = I'm hopeful the league let's teams reach out and get their own sponsors. Hoping shirt deals are for $500k a year at least

Short Sponsor = Should I ask John Green what he gives Wimbledon? He seems like he'd answer

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6 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

...Richard Peddie (former MLSE CEO) "liked" that last tweet. Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it's an interesting person to be keeping close tabs on CPL. Probably just be a curious former employer being supportive of Bierne, but the guy has serious connections if he ever wanted to get involved with the CPL project.

Richard Peddie was pivotal in MLSE making the move for an MLS franchise to be the anchor tenant at BMO Field after the 2007 U-20 World Cup. It was claimed on here recently that Barry MacLean of K/W United was the soccer enthusiast who approached him about doing it. There has been a lot of rhetoric about a new league competing against MLS, but it could easily wind up being the way to do something that works better than the current USL format as a stepping stone for Canadian players to JDG type careers. Worth noting that in Paul Beirne's tweet it is the embarkation point for a journey rather than the destination.

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6 hours ago, matty said:

Tickets = I picture a deal of at least $1-200 for a season pass, saying this based on TFC2's 2015 pass and the Toronto Wolfpack's current pass. If the season has only 10 home games I could very easily see this happening.

Agree that's realistic in terms of what it would take to get people to take the plunge sight unseen, but it means 10,000 passes at an average price of $150 to cover a $1.5 million player budget and that's before you get into all the other expenses that are probably comparable to the player budget overall. Given ticket sales are likely to be the main revenue souce at the outset, either the owners would have to be willing to lose a lot of money potentially running up to $2 million per season for the first few years (Tom Faths are few and far between, so that's a bit of a stretch) or ambitions would have to be downscaled considerably from NASL sort of level, if that's the going to be the norm in revenue terms per season per spectator.

6 hours ago, matty said:

TV deal = I picture the deal being worth much less than both the MLS and CFL deals (CFL's is worth $40m a year, no idea on MLS). I picture this being a "we'll give you TV time for free" situation where they get a game of the week from someone or a small payment deal from TLN for all the games (decided to ask Dave Meltzer how much TLN is paying for Lucha Underground because I feel it's applicable here). CPL teams will likely have to pay for the broadcast.

Shirt sponsors = I'm hopeful the league let's teams reach out and get their own sponsors. Hoping shirt deals are for $500k a year at least

Think there would need to be a proven record of significant ratings (showing a game of the week on Rogers cable won't cut it), merchandise sales and national media coverage before shirt sponsor deals would routinely break into six figures because a lot of hardnosed business types that are not emotionally attached to soccer in any way, would want to see that it wasn't going to be the next Canadian Baseball League style of fiasco before commiting to anything:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Baseball_League

https://thetyee.ca/News/2004/04/05/Empty_Field_of_Dreams/

That's one reason I am surprised that even Hamilton and Halifax are not taking season ticket deposits at this stage, because having a few thousand of those in place is a good way to prove to potential sponsors that the league isn't going to cave in after a few months.

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3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Agree that's realistic in terms of what it would take to get people to take the plunge sight unseen, but it means 10,000 passes at an average price of $150 to cover a $1.5 million player budget and that's before you get into all the other expenses that are probably comparable to the player budget overall. Given ticket sales are likely to be the main revenue souce at the outset, either the owners would have to be willing to lose a lot of money potentially running up to $2 million per season for the first few years (Tom Faths are few and far between, so that's a bit of a stretch) or ambitions would have to be downscaled considerably from NASL sort of level, if that's the going to be the norm in revenue terms per season per spectator.

Reality check time. You seem to imply that CPL will be a failure if owners/the league doesn't turn a profit or break even ASAP. You like to glorify the MLS? Here's a few facts for you

http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/quebec/201701/30/01-5064709-impact-cinq-ans-pour-degager-un-profit.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B4_en-manchette_690_section_POS1

  • Despite having won e Canadian Championship in 2 years and 3 playoffs participations, Montreal Impact are getting average revenue and assistance
  • In 5 years in the MLS they haven't turn a profit ONCE
  • Joey Saputo is hoping for an MLS Cup and turning a profit within the next 5 years
  • "We have to expand our base" --> I keep repeating that no one cares about MLS outside of Montreal Island. Fact
  • "We need more corporate support"
  • "We need to increase our presence in the media and in the regions" (Saputo himself is admitting it)
  • All that Drogba did was to place Montreal in the middle of the MLS pack in terms of revenue and assistance

Interesting facts:

  • SSS Stade Saputo cost $55M to build and they have 20k seats. They will invest to modernize it like adding WIFI
  • 50% of the fans are between 18-34 while 70% are younger than 45
  • Montreal Impact paid $40M US to join MLS, now their value is $135M US.

So relax BBTB. CPL owners knows full well they won't be turning a profit for a while, hence the emphasis on deep pocket owners like Saputo. If the league have similar owners than MLS, there's not reason for CPL not to succeed, they will go through the same growing pain as MLS had to do, or not, they could be fast learner and avoid some of MLS earlier mistakes. Montreal Impact might be looking at 10 years without a profit but their franchise value keeps rising and there's value in that from an investor's perspective, especially a deep pocket one who won't blink or lose sleep over his club losing money because his main company is making hundreds of millions or billions in profits...and we have lots of those guys right here in Canada.

According to Montreal's data (and I was right), MILLENIALS are the main consumer of soccer...50% between 18-34 and 75% below 45. I get your worries about the CPL becoming another CSL, but all those millennials weren't born or were too young to use their purchasing power and to choose where to spend. Perhaps your generation will snub CPL because they can't take another disappointment, too old to be open minded about a domestic league when they've been following EPL or they are too old to give soccer a chance  but my belief is that millennials that aren't into MLS because they aren't in their area and have almost no Canadians players whatsoever will embrace CPL coming to them. Even Saputo admits his club being totally absent in the rest of the province limiting his revenues. CPL filling the gaps in Canada and reaching all those potential clients that have no soccer clubs to cheer for will support the league. 

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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

...CPL owners knows full well they won't be turning a profit for a while, hence the emphasis on deep pocket owners like Saputo...

You know that because you have spoken to them all personally? We only know for sure who two of the ownership groups would be and according to the CSA the new league doesn't even have a name yet and Paul Beirne only represents a swathe of the ownership, so who knows how much of what Duane Rollins peddles in blogs and podcasts will bear any correlation to what eventually happens. It may be more of a pitch to try to create a buzz of excitement that attracts additional investors as opposed to a highly accurate description of who is already solidly on board and raring to go.

Beyond that, I'm not sure if you followed the links, but Jeff Mallett had deep pockets when he was involved with the Canadian Baseball League, just as he did when he later invested in the Whitecaps in MLS, but that didn't stop that league folding after one season. There still needs to be some light at the end of the tunnel. It's easy to talk about millenials flocking to a product you want to peddle, but that generation have lots of entertainment options open to them and any new domestic pro league is almost certainly not going to be at the same level as MLS in terms of quality of play. It's going to be perceived by most people as a minor league product regardless of how it is officially sanctioned by the CSA.

There were lots of baseball fans in London, Ont back in 2003 and a double AA franchise of the Detroit Tigers had been able to draw in the 1500 to 2000 range reasonably regularly in the early 90s that the new league was hoping for, but the few times I walked past London Monarchs CBL games at Labatt Park (very close to where I lived at the time) and peered over the fence the crowds were at London City type levels of very low three digits. There are plenty of other things for people to do in London on a summer evening, so baseball fans were not going to automatically flock to see a team in a new unproven league. There is no shortage of millenials that played youth soccer in Edmonton growing up but they are not packing into Clarke Stadium to watch FC Edmonton at the moment and I seriously doubt a change of league to one with "Canadian" in its name would be the key to suddenly changing that, if the quality of play remained much the same as in the NASL or as is perhaps more likely dropped significantly.

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1 hour ago, Ansem said:

According to Montreal's data (and I was right), MILLENIALS are the main consumer of soccer...50% between 18-34 and 75% below 45.

A small correction: Adult males, 18-34 are the main consumers of live sports and have been for decades. This is the demographic I have been talking about targeting since the 90's, long before the term "millenials" was invented.

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Guests on From the Black Hole got into some stuff that has been bouncing around in the background, so I guess it is now as public as it could be :P

A good source from KW gave the impression that the CFL, as a whole, will own stakes in the league itself, though not all CFL teams want to have their own franchise. 6 teams are a lock, they are waiting on confirmation for #7 and #8 that is delaying announcement. Sounds like there is some ambiguity as the same source backtracked a bit.

Additionally, KW United wants an external investor in addition to Barry Maclean to launch as one of those additional teams. They speculated that the other unconfirmed team is Halifax. The goal remains 2018, but 2019 remains a possibility if things can't get organized in a timely fashion.

I think it was Levi who mentioned that he speculates that the "EPL club interested in an Ontario club" is someone in talks with Maclean, as he has strong connections via his player agency

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