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Canadian Premier League


ted

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It's not the ideal name - I can hear the skeptics saying "It's no Premier League" but it could be worse.  Let's face it, most people would like it to be the CSL, but that name is taken, and even if that outlaw league folded tomorrow it will take several years for the gambling connotations to fade away.

Jason

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43 minutes ago, SoccerCoach said:

From Duane Rollins on Reddit:

  • Ottawa is part of the planning of this CPL and will join it
  • Edmonton wants to stay in NASL and is pissed about this league
  • Hamilton Ti-cats are part of this
  • Expect CFL cities minus Edmonton (What are the chances here that the Edmonton Eskimos or the Oilers buy off FC Edmonton from the Fath brothers?)
  • Toronto and Vancouver ownerships are the current stumbling block 
  • 8 teams expected. 6 solidly committed now. 2017 start expected 

Actually, I was expecting for 10 teams (which includes the following cities: Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec City). I'm seriously hoping that Regina and Quebec City are part of this scheme. Now aside from Edmonton, Toronto and Vancouver, who are these 6 committed cities? Anyone has an idea?

Not much new info here - pretty much what Rollins has been saying for a while.  He has not been totally consistent but much of what he has said has been.  I am getting a bit tired of listening to him on his podcasts proclaiming how he was right all along when we still know nothing officially.  But really I don't care as long as it happens.

I don't really know if Edmonton is pissed about it, more that they are so invested in NASL they have no interest in joining.  As long as there isn't a competing club in Edmonton, I don't think they care.  I'm still wondering about Toronto - Rollins and others suggested a year or so ago that a big money group was investigating bringing NASL to Toronto.  Wouldn't they be the logical choice for a Toronto owner?  

I'm not sure we should be worried about 8 or 10 teams.  I want solid teams not quantity.  And I don't care where they are as long as they do well.  If Saint John, NB  or Brandon, Manitoba somehow figured out a way to draw 5000 a game and was successful I'd be better with that than Montreal not being able to get 1000 per game.

I'm still optimistic.  We just need more details.  I'm getting a bit tired of waiting.

Jason

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1 hour ago, SoccerCoach said:

From Duane Rollins on Reddit:

  • Ottawa is part of the planning of this CPL and will join it
  • Edmonton wants to stay in NASL and is pissed about this league
  • Hamilton Ti-cats are part of this
  • Expect CFL cities minus Edmonton (What are the chances here that the Edmonton Eskimos or the Oilers buy off FC Edmonton from the Fath brothers?)
  • Toronto and Vancouver ownerships are the current stumbling block 
  • 8 teams expected. 6 solidly committed now. 2017 start expected 

Actually, I was expecting for 10 teams (which includes the following cities: Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec City). I'm seriously hoping that Regina and Quebec City are part of this scheme. Now aside from Edmonton, Toronto and Vancouver, who are these 6 committed cities? Anyone has an idea?

I think you have your answer in what Rollins said (if he is to be believed).  The CFL cities:  Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Montreal, and Hamilton.  What he says above suggests a Montreal group is not an issue but Toronto and Vancouver are which is interesting as I would have thought they were the toughest sell as Toronto could likely support another side.  That being said, if someone could put a team in Molson stadium right downtown that would be a better location than Saputo.

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15 hours ago, masster said:
15 hours ago, masster said:

Come on. When I go watch the Whitecaps play at BC Place, I don't have my passport on me and I'm not leaving these borders. So yes, that soccer is being played in Canada.

Besides that, I will agree with you on the personal preference part. So be it.

Come on. When I go watch the Whitecaps play at BC Place, I don't have my passport on me and I'm not leaving these borders. So yes, that soccer is being played in Canada.

Perhaps then a US Soccer league is being played in Canada, not Canadian Soccer league. Ergo, MLS is not the highest level Canadian soccer league.

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12 hours ago, SoccerCoach said:

From Duane Rollins on Reddit:

  • Ottawa is part of the planning of this CPL and will join it
  • Edmonton wants to stay in NASL and is pissed about this league
  • Hamilton Ti-cats are part of this
  • Expect CFL cities minus Edmonton (What are the chances here that the Edmonton Eskimos or the Oilers buy off FC Edmonton from the Fath brothers?)
  • Toronto and Vancouver ownerships are the current stumbling block 
  • 8 teams expected. 6 solidly committed now. 2017 start expected 

Actually, I was expecting for 10 teams (which includes the following cities: Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec City). I'm seriously hoping that Regina and Quebec City are part of this scheme. Now aside from Edmonton, Toronto and Vancouver, who are these 6 committed cities? Anyone has an idea?

Do you have a link to this info on Reddit? I can't seem to find it.

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This league needs to either embrace the USL sides from Toronto or Vancouver into the CPL or not bother putting a team there.  I can see why Toronto won't support another side as they love being in a top league with stars and MLS has that.  You can throw nationality out the window, even the Lynx had a tough sell when MLS came. Same situation with Vancouver, assuming the BC Lions would invest in a 2nd team?? There's no stadiums, plus the Whitecaps brand is so embedded historically in the province that a new startup team wouldn't do well.  Also the Caps marketing has been slowing stealing markets hate from the CFL in the stands, not necessarily in the TV ratings yet, but that'll come with time.  A hybrid league in 2018-2019 may seem plausible and I doubt the CPL will ever overcome MLS support and ratings in the big cities.  The CSA and CFL's best interests is to embrace them and work with them, rather then going a separate route long term

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7 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

This league needs to either embrace the USL sides from Toronto or Vancouver into the CPL or not bother putting a team there.  I can see why Toronto won't support another side as they love being in a top league with stars and MLS has that.  You can throw nationality out the window, even the Lynx had a tough sell when MLS came. Same situation with Vancouver, assuming the BC Lions would invest in a 2nd team?? There's no stadiums, plus the Whitecaps brand is so embedded historically in the province that a new startup team wouldn't do well.  Also the Caps marketing has been slowing stealing markets hate from the CFL in the stands, not necessarily in the TV ratings yet, but that'll come with time.  A hybrid league in 2018-2019 may seem plausible and I doubt the CPL will ever overcome MLS support and ratings in the big cities.  The CSA and CFL's best interests is to embrace them and work with them, rather then going a separate route long term

We can always name the Vancouver team the 86ers or the Royals. :)

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27 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

This league needs to either embrace the USL sides from Toronto or Vancouver into the CPL or not bother putting a team there.  I can see why Toronto won't support another side as they love being in a top league with stars and MLS has that.  You can throw nationality out the window, even the Lynx had a tough sell when MLS came. Same situation with Vancouver, assuming the BC Lions would invest in a 2nd team?? There's no stadiums, plus the Whitecaps brand is so embedded historically in the province that a new startup team wouldn't do well.  Also the Caps marketing has been slowing stealing markets hate from the CFL in the stands, not necessarily in the TV ratings yet, but that'll come with time.  A hybrid league in 2018-2019 may seem plausible and I doubt the CPL will ever overcome MLS support and ratings in the big cities.  The CSA and CFL's best interests is to embrace them and work with them, rather then going a separate route long term

 

That's what I'm saying!! Even without FC Edmonton being involved, you have the 3 MLS USL teams plus Ottawa joining meaning you have 4 clubs already strong and in existence. Then add 4 CFL cities (Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton) and you have an 8 team league right there. It's not that difficult, let's do this

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A useful exercise is to go through the blockers to the CPL in each proposed market:

Regina: small market size, does the community CFL ownership group want to gamble on a high capital investment project given fairly recent financial struggles? (although they may see diversification away from the CFL as a good hedge against falling viewership numbers)

Vancouver: No obvious stadium available, market probably not interested in three pro soccer teams. 

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On 2016-01-05 at 2:16 PM, -Hammer- said:

Yes it would be, because MLS is not a Canadian League, neither is NASL or the USL.They are sanctioned by the USSF and are US leagues. .

This is misleading. All teams based in Canada are sanctioned by the CSA and are administered under their authority. Soccer is being played in Canada.

 

17 hours ago, Jason said:

It's not the ideal name - I can hear the skeptics saying "It's no Premier League" but it could be worse.  Let's face it, most people would like it to be the CSL, but that name is taken, and even if that outlaw league folded tomorrow it will take several years for the gambling connotations to fade away.

Yeah, no. There is no point ever talking about the CSL name again as it will forever be associated with criminal operations thanks to the memory of the Interwebs.

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4 hours ago, michaeltfc91 said:

 

That's what I'm saying!! Even without FC Edmonton being involved, you have the 3 MLS USL teams plus Ottawa joining meaning you have 4 clubs already strong and in existence. Then add 4 CFL cities (Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton) and you have an 8 team league right there. It's not that difficult, let's do this

Including the 3 Mls Usl farm teams would be a non starter, its will be the top Canadian Pro league and these teams would make it less legitimate from the start.

 

4 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

Vancouver: No obvious stadium available, market probably not interested in three pro soccer teams. 

Swangard Stadium is still around in the suburb of Burnaby.

 

Vancouver is big enough to support the Caps and a D1 Canadian Premier League club along with the D3 Usl farm team VWC2 (who are on the other end of the city at UBC and were drawing in the hundreds despite the official #'s the last few games of the year). The Usl club serves its purpose but attendance is not a priority for the farm team so they will survive even though they'd be the odd team out and 3rd choice.

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6 hours ago, nolbertos said:

This league needs to either embrace the USL sides from Toronto or Vancouver into the CPL or not bother putting a team there.  I can see why Toronto won't support another side as they love being in a top league with stars and MLS has that.  You can throw nationality out the window, even the Lynx had a tough sell when MLS came.

Toronto can easily support another side. MLS is not good enough for anybody here to have a "MLS or bust" attitude despite having one star player. Now, I will say a Toronto team's best chances of success would be to go in deep, as in build a 20 k sss in a different part of the city. They would pack the rafters for that. Finding an owner for that is the question though.

Also, the USL reserve sides have no place in this league.

 

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Here's hoping!

Series o' thoughts.

Don't think the name matters too much.  You don't want it to sound like a total idiot idea either though.   Just call it The Soccer League, The National League, whatever.  No need to try to sex it up for dramatic effect.  People will figure it out pretty quick and those that can't probably wouldn't have any money for tickets anyway.

Ottawa and Hamilton very good news.  No Toronto or Vancouver at the launch is probably good news also.  Growth markets if the venture proves half-ways sustainable.  And how will that feel a couple of years down the road?  A Canadian league (any league) expanding INTO an MLS market.  It would be a shot in the arm for every team in the league.

Can see why Edmonton would be pissed.  They're married to a dead league in Canada if this happens.  One way or another they'll have to get on board eventually.  Or not.  Life goes on.

Like I wrote.  Here's hoping!

 

 

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20 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

Is the Toronto investors a foliate with Sigma FC?

I had no idea that program has 44 players currently in the NC or CIS.  They must be one of the most successful  private academies in North America.

Rollins has reported that Sigma is going to be working with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and their CPL franchise.  Not sure what exactly that means (entire soccer operations, just youth development, whatever) but it would be a good get for the Tiger-Cats.

Jason

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So the Sigma connection is with Hamilton.  I figured since they're based in Mississauga that they may be the Toronto group.  I wonder which stadium they would be looking for in Toronto?  I would guess it's either the York Lions Stadium or Varsity Stadium rather than Lamport Stadium.  In any rate it would have to be one of those 3 stadiums with BMO not having any availability and also with the size range.

 

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49 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

So the Sigma connection is with Hamilton.  I figured since they're based in Mississauga that they may be the Toronto group.  I wonder which stadium they would be looking for in Toronto?  I would guess it's either the York Lions Stadium or Varsity Stadium rather than Lamport Stadium.  In any rate it would have to be one of those 3 stadiums with BMO not having any availability and also with the size range.

 

I would agree that those sound like the most logical stadiums.  Anyone from the GTA want to weigh in on this?  For that matter, Vancouver people, where would a Vancouver team play?  I presume Swangard would be the first choice, but is there realistically anywhere else that is possible?

Jason

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9 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

A useful exercise is to go through the blockers to the CPL in each proposed market:

Regina: small market size, does the community CFL ownership group want to gamble on a high capital investment project given fairly recent financial struggles? (although they may see diversification away from the CFL as a good hedge against falling viewership numbers)

Vancouver: No obvious stadium available, market probably not interested in three pro soccer teams. 

Regina:  What financial struggles?  They announced a profit of $2.2 million for the 2014 season, a $10.4 million profit in 2013, and $1.1 million in 2012.  And remember this is declared profits.  I'm sure they made more but with smart accounting they worked the profit down to these numbers.  The Roughrider organization is very slick and professional - they know the market and what they are doing.  They can do a lot of cross promotion.  They will have season ticket lists (sell stand alone tickets, do a combo deal) and can add it into Roughrider corporate sponsorship packages.  People will also be looking to get into the new stadium that might not be able to get football tickets.  Anything associated to the Roughrider brand has value in the market.  They have a lot of money in the bank to spend to get it going if they are committed.

Jason

 

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12 hours ago, michaeltfc91 said:

That's what I'm saying!! Even without FC Edmonton being involved, you have the 3 MLS USL teams plus Ottawa joining meaning you have 4 clubs already strong and in existence. Then add 4 CFL cities (Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton) and you have an 8 team league right there. It's not that difficult, let's do this

Don't think there is any chance of the 3 USL teams being involved, unfortunately, but agree that all the CSA need to do would be to fold this into USL under Canadian branding for it to be easy to accomplish. Think what they have in mind all revolves around a successful 2026 World Cup bid (the key is the public infrastructure money that could be accessed by the CFL owners) and Sepp Blatter's departure from FIFA makes that a lot more unlikely than it otherwise would have been.

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7 hours ago, Cheeta said:

Can see why Edmonton would be pissed.  They're married to a dead league in Canada if this happens.  One way or another they'll have to get on board eventually.  Or not.  Life goes on.

They invested in the league in a time that nobody else was. They have been bleeding money since the creation of FC Edmonton. With expansion of NASL now progressing rapidly, they get some of the Expansion-fee of the new members every time a new club joins NASL. It would be very hard for them to step away from that (even though the CPL would probably be a better fit for them). 

On a different note, why would a team have to be in the Vancouver greater area? I could imagine a team in Victoria or Kelowna for instance, or maybe in the Fraser Valley could do well. 

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