Canadian Premier League

[matty]

1 minute ago, Kent said:

The link isn't working for me:(

Is the "Vic" you are referring to Montagliani? Based on Complete Homer's comment it sounds like the nature of these letters is to try to convince the city of Hamilton to let them put up a bubble? Is that all or was there more to it?

Vic is Montagliani and yes the #1 topic is the bubble but Bob Young says the following " As the owner and operator of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and the impending new Professional Soccer Team, I am pleased to be an investor in the Dome Project at Tim Hortons Field." If you wanna read it for yourself try this link http://hamilton.siretechnologies.com/sirepub/agdocs.aspx?doctype=agenda&itemid=10912

[Kent]

2 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

It would seem strage to have 11 teams in D1, 3 teams D2, and dozens in D3, no?

Maybe I am wrong in this, but I have a hard time seeing 3 teams as a tier. It's all semantics, but I would prefer to eventually see the semi-pro leagues get recognition as D2

Well currently it's 3 teams in D1, 2 in D2, and 20 or so in D3, but yeah I'm not sure our reserve league (USL) would need to be part of the pyramid necessarily. I would imagine we won't really talk about D1 or D2 and instead our verbage will be more similar to what it is in hockey. The only thing I see at the moment as potential for D2 would be either if the CPL grows very large and can create a C2L or what have you, or otherwise if we get more D3 leagues and can eventually have a 2 or 3 D2 leagues promoted from 6 to 10 D3 leagues.

TL;DR - in my opinion we will effectively be without a D2 for a long, long time.

[Kent]

12 minutes ago, matty said:

Vic is Montagliani and yes the #1 topic is the bubble but Bob Young says the following " As the owner and operator of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and the impending new Professional Soccer Team, I am pleased to be an investor in the Dome Project at Tim Hortons Field." If you wanna read it for yourself try this link http://hamilton.siretechnologies.com/sirepub/agdocs.aspx?doctype=agenda&itemid=10912

Thanks, that link worked for me, and it was a good read!

[Pqhbv]

I recall Dino Rossi mentioning that L1O was looking to eventually elevate to something better. It was a telephone interview with Totera I posted on here awhile back... While I don't think it is going to come before the CPL, I wouldn't put it past L1O's ability to successfully create a collection of teams in between the CPL and the current L1O. Later on down the road I'd hope for a larger D2, but that's way ahead of ourselves right now, and anything under the CPL would likely resemble major junior hockey. 

[Complete Homer]

1 minute ago, Pqhbv said:

I recall Dino Rossi mentioning that L1O was looking to eventually elevate to something better. It was a telephone interview with Totera I posted on here awhile back... While I don't think it is going to come before the CPL, I wouldn't put it past L1O's ability to successfully create a collection of teams in between the CPL and the current L1O. Later on down the road I'd hope for a larger D2, but that's way ahead of ourselves right now, and anything under the CPL would likely resemble major junior hockey. 

Oh yeah, way down the road. Maybe one day they will actually be semi-pro, as in actually kick some money back to players, instead of us telling ourselves that a league that doesn't pay a single player has semi-professional players

[Pqhbv]

Their mandate for paying players comes in effect next season does it not? Or was it 2 years after the team enters the league?

[Complete Homer]

1 minute ago, Pqhbv said:

Their mandate for paying players comes in effect next season does it not? Or was it 2 years after the team enters the league?

Oh really? I wasn't aware, good to know

[zen]

29 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

It would seem strage to have 11 teams in D1, 3 teams D2, and dozens in D3, no?

Maybe I am wrong in this, but I have a hard time seeing 3 teams as a tier. It's all semantics, but I would prefer to eventually see the semi-pro leagues get recognition as D2

Sure that might take some time though. The trickle down effect of professional who can't cut it in the CPL to L1O and the like. The OSA really has to plan ahead to make sure those leagues can afford to pay players more than they currently do. That was the plan to start after all.

[Ansem]

Unless CPL create their own version of the AHL, working to elevate D3 to a CHL style D2 makes sense...down the road.

 It`s part of the CSA plan anyways and the CHL structure is a proven model which produces the best hockey players on the planet. Despite all the money the NHL is giving Hockey USA, they got stomped in the current world cup as their NCAA model is far behind the CHL.

CSA has a structural problem. If they fix that and copy the CHL from the ground up and kids have access to quality coaches early on, a CHL model is a unique and proven system that has surpassed what`s being done anywhere else in the world.

Let`s apply this to our D3 and develop our own and perhaps one day our D3 will be strong enough for D2

[Complete Homer]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

Sure that might take some time though. The trickle down effect of professional who can't cut it in the CPL to L1O and the like. The OSA really has to plan ahead to make sure those leagues can afford to pay players more than they currently do. That was the plan to start after all.

I can't imagine them ever really playing players much

 

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Unless CPL create their own version of the AHL, working to elevate D3 to a CHL style D2 makes sense...down the road.

 It`s part of the CSA plan anyways and the CHL structure is a proven model which produces the best hockey players on the planet. Despite all the money the NHL is giving Hockey USA, they got stomped in the current world cup as their NCAA model is far behind the CHL.

CSA has a structural problem. If they fix that and copy the CHL from the ground up and kids have access to quality coaches early on, a CHL model is a unique and proven system that has surpassed what`s being done anywhere else in the world.

Let`s apply this to our D3 and develop our own and perhaps one day our D3 will be strong enough for D2

The thing with the CHL is that it is a huge draw in small communities, I don't think it could ever be replicated by soccer. My only point was to recognize that the D3 leagues form a wide enough base to actually call it a pyramid, and if the regional leagues had some brief playoff they could call themselves a national D2 league, whereas a couple reserve USL teams shouldn't really be considered a tier. Again, it is semantics and probably not worth beating to death

Given the legal action against the CHL for not paying minimum wage, the CHL system itself may be in danger despite the support it gets. I don't think we could ever approach a CHL-like tier in Canadian soccer

[Pqhbv]

9 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Unless CPL create their own version of the AHL, working to elevate D3 to a CHL style D2 makes sense...down the road.

 It`s part of the CSA plan anyways and the CHL structure is a proven model which produces the best hockey players on the planet. Despite all the money the NHL is giving Hockey USA, they got stomped in the current world cup as their NCAA model is far behind the CHL.

CSA has a structural problem. If they fix that and copy the CHL from the ground up and kids have access to quality coaches early on, a CHL model is a unique and proven system that has surpassed what`s being done anywhere else in the world.

Let`s apply this to our D3 and develop our own and perhaps one day our D3 will be strong enough for D2

Don said it last night, couldn't agree more! CHL > NCAA, KHL, European farm system.

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

The thing with the CHL is that it is a huge draw in small communities, I don't think it could ever be replicated by soccer. My only point was to recognize that the D3 leagues form a wide enough base to actually call it a pyramid, and if the regional leagues had some brief playoff they could call themselves a national D2 league, whereas a couple reserve USL teams shouldn't really be considered a tier. Again, it is semantics and probably not worth beating to death

Given the legal action against the CHL for not paying minimum wage, the CHL system itself may be in danger despite the support it gets. I don't think we could ever approach a CHL-like tier in Canadian soccer

Part of the CHL model is how well they are marketing their teams. Soccer is nowhere near that due to most people not even being aware that they have a team in their small communities. Since most small communities have no other sports, there`s no reason for D3 soccer not to thrive. Again, the CSA must revamp the whole structure first and market it properly.

They need all the marketing tools the CHL are using at the very least

• Advertising (seems simple but most communities aren`t aware of the existence of a soccer club)
• better facilities (make it attractive and look professional)
• Be visible and involved in the community
• Better website
• Community TV, radio and live streaming
• Expanding the Canadian Championship and EDUCATE people on it`s importance and make it matter
• Create a Memorial Cup and have the winner qualify to the knockout stage. (Having teams like TFC visiting Guelph or Kingston= sparks interest for the whole D3 program)
• You get where I`m going with this

Look at the CHL top 10 attendance...for those who doubts London, Kitchener and Halifax can be sport cities

1.	Quebec Remparts	QMJHL	13,835
2.	London Knights	OHL	9,013
3.	Calgary Hitmen	WHL	8,217
4.	Kitchener Rangers	OHL	7,012
5.	Portland Winterhawks	WHL	7,004
6.	Halifax Mooseheads	QMJHL	6,893
7.	Edmonton Oil Kings	WHL	6,838
8.	Spokane Chiefs	WHL	5,765
9.	Red Deer Rebels	WHL	5,635
10.	Oshawa Generals	OHL	5,353
11.	Kelowna Rockets	WHL	5,242
12.	Vancouver Giants	WHL	5,169

As for the CHL pay issue, every provinces are making exceptions to the CHL teams. The Maritimes and Quebec already moved to exempt the CHL teams from having to pay a salary to their players. The rest of the provinces will follow so the CHL will go on as is...of course, I would prefer them being paid. So a CHL model is definitely possible for soccer

[shorty]

3 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

The thing with the CHL is that it is a huge draw in small communities, I don't think it could ever be replicated by soccer.

You might well be right in the end, but whether it can or can't, I think you've nailed the absolute crux of the future of soccer in Canada (ie soccer as elite/pro sport and spectator sport, not recreational sport). 

Clearly -- regardless of the model, CHL or otherwise -- you would think that the risk/gamble/hope/belief among investors has to be that there does exist a growing and untapped market for pro soccer in Canada and that the Kingstons and Kelownas and Brandons of the country can and would support a local pro soccer club, given the chance.  I think everyone's just excited that people with vision and people with money are actually talking and trying to put something together, and even more, that (one presumes) the people with are convinced of the potential enough to invest.  Ansem's point just above about investments in facilities and marketing, etc. comes down to just that -- belief by the money people that they have a product that people will consume.

[Complete Homer]

Uh...not to jump completely away, but apparently Frank Stronach (Canadian billionaire) is buying the Fort Lauderdale Strikers? I have no idea what this would mean...

[Viruk42]

19 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 It`s part of the CSA plan anyways and the CHL structure is a proven model which produces the best hockey players on the planet. Despite all the money the NHL is giving Hockey USA, they got stomped in the current world cup as their NCAA model is far behind the CHL.

CSA has a structural problem. If they fix that and copy the CHL from the ground up and kids have access to quality coaches early on, a CHL model is a unique and proven system that has surpassed what`s being done anywhere else in the world.

First: The NCAA isn't why the US sucked at the world cup, that was mostly coaching and roster decisions.

Second: The CHL model isn't proven to be better than any other. Much of it depends on the player (some players are late bloomers and benefit from the NCAA model, while the CHL tends to be better for physical players), but mostly we just get ahead because of numbers. According to the IIHF, we have over 455,000 registered U20 players (appears to be both genders), whereas Sweden, who I would suggest are our biggest competition for top spot on the international stage, have just 41,440. How are they just as good at producing players when they have 1/10th? 

Having said that, I'd definitely take the CHL model over the NCAA any day. 

[Complete Homer]

Source for the Frank Stronach to purchase the Fort Lauderdale Strikers. Just twitter, but interesting:

https://mobile.twitter.com/pedroheizer/status/778793870356205569

I really don't know what to make of this. Stronach's heart has always seemed to be southern Ontario and Austria...what would motivate him to purchase the Strikers? His partner is the former manager of the Strikers (also former manager of Austria Vienna FK which Stronach is part owner of), which seems to suggest that the team would stay where it is. But...Fort Lauderdale? What reason would Stronach have for purchasing a team in a league expected to go belly up when there is a Canadian league trying to launch simultaneously? 

[Kent]

6 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Source for the Frank Stronach to purchase the Fort Lauderdale Strikers. Just twitter, but interesting:

https://mobile.twitter.com/pedroheizer/status/778793870356205569

I really don't know what to make of this. Stronach's heart has always seemed to be southern Ontario and Austria...what would motivate him to purchase the Strikers? His partner is the former manager of the Strikers (also former manager of Austria Vienna FK which Stronach is part owner of), which seems to suggest that the team would stay where it is. But...Fort Lauderdale? What reason would Stronach have for purchasing a team in a league expected to go belly up when there is a Canadian league trying to launch simultaneously? 

Obviously he is buying the Fort Lauderdale Strikers and will move them to CPL to play as the Woodbridge Strikers. BOOM!

[Viruk42]

8 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Source for the Frank Stronach to purchase the Fort Lauderdale Strikers. Just twitter, but interesting:

https://mobile.twitter.com/pedroheizer/status/778793870356205569

I really don't know what to make of this. Stronach's heart has always seemed to be southern Ontario and Austria...what would motivate him to purchase the Strikers? His partner is the former manager of the Strikers (also former manager of Austria Vienna FK which Stronach is part owner of), which seems to suggest that the team would stay where it is. But...Fort Lauderdale? What reason would Stronach have for purchasing a team in a league expected to go belly up when there is a Canadian league trying to launch simultaneously? 

He appears to own something called "Gulfstream Park" in the Fort Lauderdale area? Appears to be a (horse) racetrack and a casino, among other things. Could be the area is his winter home?

[Complete Homer]

Just now, Kent said:

Obviously he is buying the Fort Lauderdale Strikers and will move them to CPL to play as the Woodbridge Strikers. BOOM!

Honestly, my first reaction was that he was buying the team to move it...I guess it is easier to buy a team with a ready-made corporate structure, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. The NASL probably has to approve purchases, and they would likely block a buy-and-run (unless they are desperate enough to do it to keep the team alive for one more season before leaving). However, it also doesn't make a lot of sense to buy a team soley for its corporate structure (even if it was dirt cheap) if you are dependent on those employees actually moving. I doubt it is for the name, "Strikers" is probably too generic to get sued over.

Well shit, I think we may have lost a big potential owner to NASL of all leagues

[Complete Homer]

1 minute ago, Viruk42 said:

He appears to own something called "Gulfstream Park" in the Fort Lauderdale area? Appears to be a (horse) racetrack and a casino, among other things. Could be the area is his winter home?

He owns stuff like that all over...unless he was using the team to supplement his Fort Lauderdale businesses?

I guess it isn't the worst news in the world. If he is suddenly demonstrating interest in owning teams outside of Austria Vienna FK, and he is ok with those being in north america, maybe CPL can still pique his interest

[ironcub14]

Reme90, while pro/rel is a noble sporting idea, it's an idea likely 10-25 years away from happening at the moment in North America, and that is mostly due to club footy in Canada, and in North America generally, playing catch-up to the approximately 150 years of head start that European footy has had on us, and the greater popularity and history as a spectactor sport that footy has had in Europe compared to N America. 

Ben Massey at Maple Leaf Forever wrote a great article yesterday on the merits of pro/rel for CPL, but even he had to make sure to note that his suggestions would take a minimum of 15 years to be implemented, and I definitely agree with that timeline. Give the CPL clubs time to blossom first. 

https://www.maple-leaf-forever.com/2016/09/21/a-canadian-prorel-manifesto/

 

 

[zen]

7 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

Reme90, while pro/rel is a noble sporting idea, it's an idea likely 10-25 years away from happening at the moment in North America, and that is mostly due to club footy in Canada, and in North America generally, playing catch-up to the approximately 150 years of head start that European footy has had on us, and the greater popularity and history as a spectactor sport that footy has had in Europe compared to N America. 

Ben Massey at Maple Leaf Forever wrote a great article yesterday on the merits of pro/rel for CPL, but even he had to make sure to note that his suggestions would take a minimum of 15 years to be implemented, and I definitely agree with that timeline. Give the CPL clubs time to blossom first. 

https://www.maple-leaf-forever.com/2016/09/21/a-canadian-prorel-manifesto/

 

 

I don't think it's ever going to happen. Pro-rel is essentially a bottom-up approach. The CPL is a top-down approach, if you want to do pro-rel then you won't see anything like CPL till who knows when.

That's not to say the ideas are mutually exclusive, but highly unlikely given the investment already put into the one approach.

[ironcub14]

The Fury twitter exploded again last night after Brian Strauss at SI confirmed he had multiple sources inform him of a possible departure of Ottawa, and Tampa Bay, from NASL for USL. This has sparked more rumours, in turn, of a possible NASL demise and a future D2 sanctioning of USL.

This is something most of us are all already aware of over the past month. However, I saw some interesting comments from AJ Jakubec of TSN 1200, who I believe often provides play-by-play for Fury matches on radio, and I know is probably the most respected professional journalistic source for Fury news, similarly as to how Stu McTaggart is considered the best insider source from a blogging perspective. What I know for sure is that they are both close to Graeme Ivory, Comms Director for Fury/OSEG, and Chris Hofley, formerly Ottawa Sun and presently an OSEG comms specialist. Basically, anything from AJ or Stu is coming straight or close from the Fury.

AJ mentioned 2 things, one we've seen once from Stu and one I had never seen, as I don't follow USL closely enough to go on Big Soccer or anything like that.

AJ brought up the distinct possibility of a USL Canada, or a CPL that would be classified as a USL conference, which is something that Stu had previously mentioned as well.

He also repeated a number of times that USL, if granted USSF D2 status, may very well split into a USL 1 and USL 2, with independent stronger clubs in a D2 USL 1, and reserve and weaker clubs in a D3 USL 2. 

He was trying to defend the Fury's likely move to USL, and mentioned he was placated, and was also trying to placate the Fury twitter, that a Fury in USL may very well never be playing any matches versus TFC II, FC Mtl and Caps 2. 

To me, if that scenario really did follow through, then you could very well have a CPL in a USL Canada, without the matches versus the MLS reserve teams, but the benefits of a schedule heavy with matches between a number of Canadian clubs but also the occasional matches with stronger USL clubs in US as well. You would also have the benefit of a larger league table, which to me is essential in that it provides a less risky way to create a high number of new clubs in Canada, without risking the entire project collapsing in a smaller fully-independent CPL. 

Yes, there would be drawbacks such as the co-sanctioning, the issue of negotating domestic quotas, the possible marketing issues, etc. I would like to at least pass this info on though as an alternate scenario to a fully independent CPL. 

If anything, I would assume the Fury are pushing for this scenario and that is why they informed AJ and Stu about it. And I would hope that the CSA and the potential CPL ownership groups would at least entertain this option as one of a number of options they must carefully consider for the sake of this sport in Canada. 

[ironcub14]

15 minutes ago, zen said:

I don't think it's ever going to happen. Pro-rel is essentially a bottom-up approach. The CPL is a top-down approach, if you want to do pro-rel then you won't see anything like CPL till who knows when.

That's not to say the ideas are mutually exclusive, but highly unlikely given the investment already put into the one approach.

It to me depends on how likely a CPL 2 comes up in the next 10-20 years, and/or if L1O/PLSQ/etc clubs will grow to a level suitable to challenge for CPL 2 and even CPL 1 status over the next two decades. I wouldn't say never, but I'm not overly worried if pro/rel did not happen in our lifetimes. 

[Kibby]

I'm starting to feel OSEG isn't in the loop or onboard re:cpl now.