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18 minutes ago, TRM said:

Except they and others before them in the same positions have said the same thing for 2016, 2017 and now 2018. Next ..... 2019, 2020 etc. They will continue to do their "due diligence" with no league is my sad but realistic prediction. String it along forever if they can.

You really should go look at the timelines, various pronouncements etc. around the creation of your beloved MLS to gain some perspective. It took nearly a decade to form after the public pronouncement of USSF and it even took 3 years after the announcement of the actual ownership group for the league to actually start. Comparatively, CPL is moving at light speed.

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1 minute ago, Gordon said:

You really should go look at the timelines, various pronouncements etc. around the creation of your beloved MLS to gain some perspective. It took nearly a decade to form after the public pronouncement of USSF and it even took 3 years after the announcement of the actual ownership group for the league to actually start. Comparatively, CPL is moving at light speed.

Yes it took more than 15 years from inception to lift off for MLS and it nearly folded along the way at least once. They had some competition but they crushed USL D1 and have taken (and will continue to take) the best markets from NASL until it too ceases to be relevant. MLS is no longer the startup league. They are the elephant in the living room. Ignore it at your peril.

This isn't 1994 or 2004. There is no serious competition for the best players in North America from non-MLS teams.

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2 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

And Chelsea has 38 players out on loan. The difference is that Barcelona has several Spanish players who have played for their reserve teams in the Segunda (including Busquets, D. Suarez, Iniesta, Sergi Roberto, and Jordi Masip), as does Real Madrid (Carvajal, Nacho, Vazquez, Morata), while the only English players who were part of Chelsea's youth setup and have played premier league games for them are Loftus-Cheek, and John Terry. Manchester United (Lingard and Rashford), Liverpool (Brannagan, Ojo, and Randall), Arsenal (Gibbs and Akpom), Tottenham (Kane, Onomah, Carroll, and Winks) also have relatively few/unheralded English youth team players that are still with the senior team, while Manchester City has none.

Does this guarantee that MLS reserves in the CPL will benefit Canada? No, of course not, but I wonder if it could. The pressure to win can sometimes override the desire to develop talent, as we've all seen at the youth levels (kick it up to the big kid!). Perhaps the same is true when they're 15-23?

 

But they're not in the same country? MLS is an American league, the CPL is Canadian, ergo they can both be D1. If the MLS teams have their reserves in the CPL, they play in Canada's D1. The only time they would be in the same division is competing for the Voyageurs Cup, and I assume the reserve squads wouldn't be able to compete in that, the same way that Real Madrid Castilla and Barcelona B can't compete in the Copa Del Rey. 

So in other words, the only reason that TFC2 in CPL would make CPL a D2 is in terms of fan perception - hence why I'm saying you don't do it right away. If you wait a few years and CPL has established itself, then you *can* (not have to, not should, but *can*) do it as a way to expand the league into the three biggest markets. Is it a good idea? I don't know and have never claimed that it was. I've said I'm *fine* with it, but that also doesn't mean I like it, it just means I would tolerate it. 

So basically shaft fans once you've reeled them in. I think many people myself included would lose interest if that were to happen. It kinda defeats the purpose of going through the trouble to develop our own league. We might as well have gone the USL. 

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It's odd to me how not only does this country have Euro-snobs, but now MLS has appeared to develop to the point where we have MLS-snobs.

@TRM I have to ask, if a CPL is actually announced, and a Calgary club is announced, are you going to support it, or continue to preach the virtues of the Whitecaps and MLS? 

Edited by shermanator
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2 hours ago, matty said:

Serious question: How much does everyone here trust Futballer?

Let s see the First place the CPL news Launch along with the Website was on (Off the pitch.ca ) as  we wanted to gain traction with the younger age groups and clubs first. Off the pitch Friendly Neighborhood trolls Martin, and a few others tried down playing  the Idea at least 5 years prior to the news been brought to the Voyageurs forum and Hamilton interest were known.

Matty or Matty v :  you can check with John Kelly (Calgary), Gerry Gentile ( Toronto) and others, we contacted them all to get them on board the Pro Soccer Canada Project reborn into the  CPL Revolution that it is today. 

We are serious and it`s here!!!!!  Canadian Premier League!

 

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8 minutes ago, zen said:

So basically shaft fans once you've reeled them in. I think many people myself included would lose interest if that were to happen. It kinda defeats the purpose of going through the trouble to develop our own league. We might as well have gone the USL. 

Why is that shafting fans? What is it fans are getting from the CPL? Canadian soccer, a development pathway for our prospects, a local team, our own league, etc. What in that is nullified, or even lessened, by having TFC2 (which doesn't have to be called that, of course. The Impact's USL affiliate is FC Montreal after all) and the others in the CPL 5 or 10 years down the road? 

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14 minutes ago, Viruk42 said:

Why is that shafting fans? What is it fans are getting from the CPL? Canadian soccer, a development pathway for our prospects, a local team, our own league, etc. What in that is nullified, or even lessened, by having TFC2 (which doesn't have to be called that, of course. The Impact's USL affiliate is FC Montreal after all) and the others in the CPL 5 or 10 years down the road? 

Because professional sports are only indirectly supposed to support your national team, the primary purpose of any professional league is to put the best competitive product on the field. If the league's stakeholders aspire to put out a better product than what the NASL offers, putting reserve teams in the league devalues the product itself.

I'm not opposed to the idea of reserve teams in a national pyramid itself, but they should be restricted to the 3rd tier as in Germany. In principle, I think the USL should split in 2 league, reserve teams operate in the 3rd division and independent teams can be promoted and relegated. I just think there is a level up to where it's appropriate to do so, and the CPL isn't it.

Edited by zen
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8 minutes ago, Futballer said:

Let s see the First place the CPL news Launch along with the Website was on (Off the pitch.ca ) as  we wanted to gain traction with the younger age groups and clubs first. Off the pitch Friendly Neighborhood trolls Martin, and a few others tried down playing  the Idea at least 5 years prior to the news been brought to the Voyageurs forum and Hamilton interest were known.

Matty or Matty v :  you can check with John Kelly (Calgary), Gerry Gentile ( Toronto) and others, we contacted them all to get them on board the Pro Soccer Canada Project reborn into the  CPL Revolution that it is today. 

We are serious and it`s here!!!!!  Canadian Premier League!

 

This John Kelly?

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15 minutes ago, shermanator said:

It's odd to me how not only does this country have Euro-snobs, but now MLS has appeared to develop to the point where we have MLS-snobs.

@TRM I have to ask, if a CPL is actually announced, and a Calgary club is announced, are you going to support it, or continue to preach the virtues of the Whitecaps and MLS? 

Sure I'll support it while it lasts. I'm not an MLS snob but get serious. The question that remains to be even asked of the CSA and their potential backers much less answered still isn't known.

"Are you going to compete in the 3 MLS markets or ignore the 3 largest markets in the country?"

I see neither as viable.

If some rich dudes want to start up 6 to 8 teams and provide places to play for Canadians great I'm all for it but I have a serious question that still isn't answered. I'd love to see it but I think it is too little, too late and will be at too low a level to attract the required fan base or TV deals to survive. I've seen this movie before several times. While my heart hopes it will end differently than the others my mind thinks it will have the same ending.

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21 minutes ago, TRM said:

Sure I'll support it while it lasts. I'm not an MLS snob but get serious. The question that remains to be even asked of the CSA and their potential backers much less answered still isn't known.

"Are you going to compete in the 3 MLS markets or ignore the 3 largest markets in the country?"

I see neither as viable.

If some rich dudes want to start up 6 to 8 teams and provide places to play for Canadians great I'm all for it but I have a serious question that still isn't answered. I'd love to see it but I think it is too little, too late and will be at too low a level to attract the required fan base or TV deals to survive. I've seen this movie before several times. While my heart hopes it will end differently than the others my mind thinks it will have the same ending.

Fair enough, your posts just strike me as someone who will be all too happy to see this fall through, or start up and fail. Even this post dismisses a domestic league as a failure out of the gate when no details are known.

It sounds like you can at least appreciate the benefits of a domestic league should it happen, whether it is ultimately successful or a failure in the end. Anything that can help make our Calgary watch parties a little more pleasant to watch (via positive results) is a good thing, IMO.

Edited by shermanator
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28 minutes ago, matty said:

 

This John Kelly?

Yes contacted them all and tried to mend and build the Broken Bridges, we interviewed them all to problem solve and see where it all went wrong the first time, 

We found out the role each and everyone played why the year 2000 Campaign failed.

All those previous causes as to the CUSL Project break down cannot take place again 

Any and all publication in regards to Business plan not been acceptable or is quite bullish must be look at keenly as they are repeating the failures of the past project in 2000.

Edited by Futballer
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13 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Fair enough, your posts just strike me as someone who will be all too happy to see this fall through, or start up and fail. Even this post dismisses a domestic league as a failure out of the gate when no details are known.

It sounds like you can at least appreciate the benefits of a domestic league should it happen, whether it is ultimately successful or a failure in the end. Anything that can help make our Calgary watch parties a little more pleasant to watch (via positive results) is a good thing, IMO.

I think I'm old enough to be your grandfather. Well almost :)

It would be a very good thing if this happened and succeeded but my head keeps overruling my heart due to past experiences :(

 

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15 minutes ago, Futballer said:

Yes contacted them all and tried to mend and build the Broken Bridges, we interviewed them all to problem solve and see where it all went wrong the first time, 

We found out the role each and everyone played why the year 2000 Campaign failed. 

Fair enough. I hope you do not mind but I am still sceptical on much of what you say.

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6 minutes ago, matty said:

Fair enough. I hope you do not mind but I am still sceptical on much of what you say.

It seems to fit quite well with the second group of non-professionals trying to go around using the CPL moniker, hurting the reputation of the whole thing 

Maybe this is why the CSA is so closed off about this... better to work in silence than allow rumours to get co-opted by well meaning but misguided groups. 

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2 minutes ago, reme90 said:

Please, do yourself a favor and listen to former MLS GM speak on closed market 

https://twitter.com/soccerreform/status/774373746849099776?s=09 (copy and paste)

We can't let it happen here. I would love to get together with like-minded individuals and help promote what is best for the fans and the game.

Reme90, I love your passion, but whatever form of centralization they've agreed on is likely set. I think it's time to set aside debate and get ready to push whatever the CSA announces. 

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29 minutes ago, matty said:

BTW old news but haven't seen this posted here, forgive me if this has been. Here's the letters Young, Vic and McGrane sent to Hamilton city hall. I had seen McGrane's prior but not Young's or Vic's

Interested tidbit. Not much in terms of new info, but good to see all three were working in lockstep. 

I clearly don't understand city politics when the council would get their back up over a proposal that boils down to "let us put a bubble over the stadium, it will make it usable for an additional 4 months every year, we will pay for the whole thing, and we will donate usage time to local youth teams" That sounds like a pretty good deal for the city 

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A couple of thoughts that have crossed my mind in the last few days as news has started to filter out:

As far as I understand, national soccer federations don't usually run leagues, they sanction them. The fact that the CSA seems to be playing an integral role in the formation of this league makes me wonder what role they will play once it has been formed and is up and running.

Recognizing the importance of the league, will they help to bankroll it or subsidize the losses? Would they take a dollar or two from each recreational players registration fee and put it towards this league, something they wouldn't do for the old CSL? Will they cover the salaries of certain national team players, like they do for the women in the NWSL?

As much as I hate the way MLS is run, I am open to creative solutions to ensure that the CPL survives and thrives. 

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They clearly don't have the money to subsidize or bankroll a league, which is what makes their opinion on matters a lot less important than it would initially appear to be.

8 hours ago, Futballer said:

Any and all publication in regards to Business plan not been acceptable or is quite bullish must be look at keenly as they are repeating the failures of the past project in 2000.

If you are suggesting that raising people's expectations to an unrealistic and unacheivable level was one of the mistakes made in 2000 with CUSL, then I think that was clearly the case and can see why the argument can be made that history is repeating itself on that in the present day. The agenda has to be set first and foremost by the people that have been or are willing to invest a significant portion of their personal net worth in pro level soccer rather than having people that have no intention in investing dreaming up what they would love to see happen with other people's money.

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Something that's been bothering me for a bit about this though...

If the CSA decides (rightly or wrongly) to declare CPL as D1, what does a D2 in Canada look like?  Do they take the cream of L1O/PLSQ and make a regional super-semi-pro league?  Would it be the same as CPL except with reserve squads?  Does the CSA remove formal division numbers and simply label things as "pro" and "semi-pro"?  Do they simply declare L1O and PLSQ to be D2 as they're the second-best leagues in the country?

I'm not promoting any of the other, but if there's a D1 and a D3, logically there must be a D2, and I have no idea what kind of league we'd expect to see there.

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9 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Something that's been bothering me for a bit about this though...

If the CSA decides (rightly or wrongly) to declare CPL as D1, what does a D2 in Canada look like?  Do they take the cream of L1O/PLSQ and make a regional super-semi-pro league?  Would it be the same as CPL except with reserve squads?  Does the CSA remove formal division numbers and simply label things as "pro" and "semi-pro"?  Do they simply declare L1O and PLSQ to be D2 as they're the second-best leagues in the country?

I'm not promoting any of the other, but if there's a D1 and a D3, logically there must be a D2, and I have no idea what kind of league we'd expect to see there.

USL will be D2

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9 hours ago, matty said:

BTW old news but haven't seen this posted here, forgive me if this has been. Here's the letters Young, Vic and McGrane sent to Hamilton city hall. I had seen McGrane's prior but not Young's or Vic's

The link isn't working for me:(

Is the "Vic" you are referring to Montagliani? Based on Complete Homer's comment it sounds like the nature of these letters is to try to convince the city of Hamilton to let them put up a bubble? Is that all or was there more to it?

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